Which is better. .223 or 7.62x39 for SHTF rifle?

[2rott 0]

Been thinking of getting a Saiga for a while. Went to the range and tried a 7.62x39. Nice to shoot.

Even though this will be my SHTF rifle I'm considering the .223 also. Faster repeat shots. It would be easier for the females in my house to shoot. Cheaper ammo. Are the .223's as reliable as the 7.62x39? Will it handle all .223 & 5.56 ammo? Are spare mags available? Any opinions would be appreciated since my only experience is with handguns.

Edited January 18, 2007 by 2rott

[ProgCoder 0]

I prefer a larger caliber of the 7.62x39 and for most folks I think it's personal preference too.

 

Since it's chambered for the .223 you probably want to read the info at this link...

 

5.56mm v. 223 Remington

[ironhead7544 35]

The 223 ammo is lighter so you can carry more ammo. It can also use our current military ammo so you might be able to find some easier than 7.63x39. Either one is good. I have a 308, 12 ga and 7.62x39. Will probably get a 223 also.

[ndomres 0]

It's really contingent on where you live. If you're in a dense neighborhood, condo, or apt, then I'd be very concerned w/ overpenetration or missed shots. If you don't already own a handgun or a shotgun, then I'd suggest the .223rem saiga. I'd rather see a missed shot get stuck in plywood or a tree rather than end up one of my neighbors' bodies.

 

This will be a serious concern as most looters tend to stay in motion when they're 'home shopping'.

 

Seeing that you're from Florida, you might want look up some old articles on Hurricane Andrew that blew through Homestead and other south Miami suburbs. I seem to recall homeowners defending their turn w/ AR's and shotguns.

 

Even the HP 7.62x39 bullets can pass through a human target and end up in someone else's property.

[G O B 3,516]

For SHTF you would be better served with a S-.410. Wound channel is what droppes 'em and .41" is a lot bigger than .301" or .22". It has the same visual intimidation as an Ak, especially if you get the AK type front sight when you get your 10 RD. mags. and if you can shoot pidgeons and rats you won't starve.

[uncle jerky 1]

Since 223, 308 and 12 gauge shells are plentiful,first buy the 223 Saiga,then the .308 and then the Saiga 12 shotgun.

(Forgot, also buy a decent 9mm pistol for your sidearm).

[BlenderWizard 12]

Since 223, 308 and 12 gauge shells are plentiful,first buy the 223 Saiga,then the .308 and then the Saiga 12 shotgun.

(Forgot, also buy a decent 9mm pistol for your sidearm).

 

 

With as many AK's and SKS's and 1000 round cases of x 39 wolf that have been sold, I'd say 7.62x39 is fairly plentiful in this country, too.

[DrugRunR 2]

SHTF - 223/5.56 all the way.

 

Regardless of the terrain (exception in wide open fields), you will want 223/5.56

 

(1) WALMART carries it, hell EVERY gun store carries it by the case most of the time.

(2) 99 % of the Military/LEO use it, so ammo is availible

(3) as stated above, round is light wieght so you can carry more

 

I would NOT use a 5.45 gun for SHTF unless you planned on stocking ALOT of ammo.

Yes, alot of places do carry 7.62x39, however it is not even 1/2 as plentiful as 223/5.56 is.

[BlenderWizard 12]

SHTF - 223/5.56 all the way.

 

Regardless of the terrain (exception in wide open fields), you will want 223/5.56

 

(1) WALMART carries it, hell EVERY gun store carries it by the case most of the time.

(2) 99 % of the Military/LEO use it, so ammo is availible

(3) as stated above, round is light wieght so you can carry more

 

I would NOT use a 5.45 gun for SHTF unless you planned on stocking ALOT of ammo.

Yes, alot of places do carry 7.62x39, however it is not even 1/2 as plentiful as 223/5.56 is.

 

 

Well, you have your opinion, and I have mine... I have no interest in .223

[Red Jacket 329]

Two thoughts on the question

1, I made a full-auto Siaga in .223 so I would always have a rental gun in the AK platform with ammo to feed it . You can stock up and all that , but I have hit 2-3 week stretchs when I couldn't get 7.62x39 .

2 , 7.62 x39 Saiga is a much easier conversion , well , easier to do with reliability in mind . The .223 takes a bit more care , feed angles have to be much more "just so" .

[dinzag 31]

Hmmm...depends on what ammo the dead corpses laying around have on 'em for ammo.

I'd say, stash one of each.

[jimmy_stikx 0]

I'd say the Saiga in .223, it more than likely has and actual NATO chamber (could be wrong, but the company producing these rifles is a military arms manufacturer as well, why would the spend more on extra tooling for sporter rifles?)

 

That round will be more plentiful, and is standard issue in every LE department in this country, the military uses it, and about the only other rounds you'll find in the same quantity will be 9mm and .308/7.62 NATO. If you want more power than the 5.56, then I would go with the .308, the only thing with more stopping power than it will be .30-06 and .50BMG.

[2rott 0]

Which one? 7.62 or 223. 7.62 or 223. 7.62 or 223. You guys are right. I'll get a SKS 7.62x39 & a Saiga .223 or maybe 2 Saigas & cover all the bases. I already own several handguns in 9mm, 45,38 & 357mag. Can I improve the Saiga trigger & still be legal?

[Bvamp 604]

5.56mm - 12g - 9mm - .22LR - hatchet - knife

 

dont plan on picking up anything not american made off a dead body. the last thing you need is to run out of ammo and not find any. dont plan on anyone parting with more than a mag or two of 7.62x39 if something really bad is happening. and dont bother stocking up on firestarters. just use a pile of pinecones you can find nearly anywhere.

[headshot 52]

It is not a question of caliber, believe it or not.

 

Its a question of what ammo will you be able to stockpile more of prior to SHTF, and what ammo would be more available after SHTF.

 

That is the question.

[G O B 3,516]

And what SHTF? Is it temporary like Katrina- or total failure of supply for all? Armed invasion? Power grid out extended time?-??? All will have different solutions and and probabilities.

Are you urban, suburban, country? I hate to say it but the most usefull SHTF rifle that I own is my old AR-7. With 500 rounds it weighs less than an AR or AK with one mag. Also it's submergable dirtproof and floats!

[jimmy_stikx 0]

Yeah, I definitely want to get one of those, have to stick with the 10/22 for now though.

 

Honestly, I would go with a FAL with 30 rnds, simply because I know I can carry a lot of weight ( helped a girl move back into her dorm, a backpack full of whatever, two good sized duffel/sports bags slung to my sides off the shoulders, and a full laundry bag on my head, and a mile walk from where the bus dropped her off to her dorm, if it wasn't for the laundry bag, I probably would have been able to go a lot longer, cause I could shift weight then, but alas, it was a short walk anyways)

 

I also say the .308, cause, that's what I got already in the form of a CETME and 6 20rnds and one 5 rnd.

[headshot 52]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Jan 22 2007, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what SHTF? Is it temporary like Katrina- or total failure of supply for all? Armed invasion? Power grid out extended time?-??? All will have different solutions and and probabilities.

Are you urban, suburban, country? I hate to say it but the most usefull SHTF rifle that I own is my old AR-7. With 500 rounds it weighs less than an AR or AK with one mag. Also it's submergable dirtproof and floats!

 

Easy to suppress as well......

[BlenderWizard 12]

They've pretty much got the same thread going over here:

 

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=55782

 

A bunch of "If it ain't Amurikan, it ain't no good!"-type responses

 

That, and mini lovers...

[SpicyMchaggis 0]

5.56mm - 12g - 9mm - .22LR - hatchet - knife

 

dont plan on picking up anything not american made off a dead body. the last thing you need is to run out of ammo and not find any. dont plan on anyone parting with more than a mag or two of 7.62x39 if something really bad is happening. and dont bother stocking up on firestarters. just use a pile of pinecones you can find nearly anywhere.

 

Nail on the head.

 

SHTF for me?

 

-SAR-3 (5.56mm)

-Mossberg 500 20"(12 Gauge)

-Sig P229R (9mm)

-LaRue battleknife

-Tapco vest w/ extra ammo leg pouches

-3-Point slings

-Hatchet

-Boots

-Camelbak hydration system

-Handheld GPS w/ extra double AA's

-Smokes

 

and finally

 

-A plan.

 

This plan is flexible from natural disasters, invasion, to zombies.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Kyle

[ripper225 0]

i think if you're gonna need to be picking up ammo off zombie corpses, that you'll probably be able to pick up a rifle if necessary.

[Motopilot1 37]

i would say SHTF gun 223. saiga i like the idea of 7.62x39 but i have a feeling there would be more 223. laying around ide have a 223. 308. s12 and a 22. if just one s12 for home defense if it was in the streets probably 223. out in the open more M1A 308 longer shots and repeatable fire thats just my 2cents

[Motopilot1 37]

o yes and if the shit gets really deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QGZKCykhg8

some graphic video this is a warning

[DHunter 1]

o yes and if the shit gets really deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QGZKCykhg8

some graphic video this is a warning

 

Zombies can wander while burning, thus setting other things on fire. Maybe not such a good idea.

 

 

I agree with it mostly coming down to what you have a good stockpile of ammo for. Hmmmm....Looks like I've got more 7.62X54R than anything else at the moment. Guess that means the PSL is my current SHTF gun.

[SOPMOD 254]

I own both calibers and honestly the 223 rifles are there for a single purpose.

 

If I have to walk away from everything on foot with naught but my rucksack,rifle and whatever ammo I can carry on me I'll grab a 223 because I can haul waaay more ammo and might be able to find more later.

 

I prefer 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 for defending a position and operating within my own AO due to their ability to bust through medium barriers,stop vehicles and with softpoint ammo take down larger critters than 223.

 

223 is superior logistically not ballistically

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

SHTF...........LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

personal preference doesn't make caches of rare, or more powerful ammo appear by the EOTWAWKI Gods....hence the end of the world.

 

 

 

5.56/.223

 

and 9mm, or .45ACP

 

Readily Available Ammo(and don't complain about the ammo in Iraq.....You'll be able to find plenty on the corpses of LEO/MIL here in the states, and of Looters You Saiga-Freaks kill)!

 

Feel free to play with my toys if I fall.

 

 

 

By toys...I means guns You wierdos.

[Motopilot1 37]

yes if i go down i have an ammo stash in my garage have at it

[JK-47 33]

Just a thought, if the Chinese invade you're going to be finding 5.8x42mm rounds on the bodies. Honnestly I'd really like to handle these: (P.S. get an Ak in both calibers, learn the manual of arms, stock mags for both, have some ammo for both; and stock pile ammo for the one you prefer. If TS ever HTF, you'll have choices, two functional rifles with ammo, and if there really is ammo laying arround for you to collect- chances are good you can use it w/ one rifle or the other. Add a .308 saiga and a 9mm pistol and you'll be all set. + a few bricks of .22.)

Edited January 11, 2008 by JK-47

[22_Shooter 1,560]

yes if i go down i have an ammo stash in my garage have at it

 

I call dibs on the micro Galil you're working on!!

[taurussvt 0]

I've got a couple of friends with rifles in .223 I've noticed that in the past it was sometimes hard to get ammo in larger quantities. The last time my buddy needed ammo which was back in late October I guess, we hit up a bunch of different web sites trying to get some and everybody pretty much told him that they had it on order but nothing was coming in. The ones who could actually figure out what was up pretty much blamed it on the US military. If we're in a war and your rifle uses the same round as the military, who do you think is gonna get the rounds? I'd rather stick to the 7.62 myself. I've never had a problem getting it.