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Be honest- how accurate is your saiga rifle?  

211 members have voted

  1. 1. Be honest- how accurate is your saiga rifle?

    • One hole in target all day (be honest)
      0
    • around 1" at 100 yds/meters (1moa)
      16
    • Around 2" at 100 yds/meters (2moa)
      52
    • Around 3" at 100 yds/meters (3moa)
      41
    • Around 4" at 100 yds/meters (4moa)
      26
    • More that 4" at 100 yds/meters (4+moa)
      18
    • Do not know
      43


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Any 20 shot group that can be described as a hole is almost always the result of decent optics, shooting off the bench, and very high quality ammuniton. In my case that's handloads which are sized, then case trimmed, then weight sorted, filled with hand measured powder charges, topped off with weighed and ogive measured bullets which are as consistent as the lot will allow. And yes, it does take forever to produce 100 quality rounds that way.

 

 

I can do that with my PSL with 8X POSP optic at 100 yards... with wolf black box ammo... 1 ragged hole... 1.5" diameter.... Just gotta let the barrel cool down between shots is all...

 

 

:smoke:

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Check your ammo.   I measured Tula and Wolf 7.62x39 and most of them measured .308", not .311". I also tore down a bunch of ammo checking powder charges and bullet weights. I pulled some 7.62x39 Tul

I have been asked about the MOA and how it compaires to the group size. Why is 1 MOA the same as 1" at 100yds? Well first the MOA stands for "minute of angle". Most everyone knows about degrees in an

I'm using 168 sierra match king, handloads for my 16" .308. I'll get two almost touching then blow one out and end up with an 1 1/2 to 2 MOA group. This has something to do with the gas piston, but

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  • 4 weeks later...

Dont have a Saiga rifle, have the S12. Its 1 DOA at 25 yds. (Thats Dead On Arrival) and that is all that matters to me.

 

I dont care about 1 ragged hole that can be covered with a quarter at 100 yds, leave that to the AR guys.

 

I care about killing, or at least hitting in the kill zone what I intend to kill with every shot, be it rifle, pistol or shotty at their intended distances.

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  • 1 month later...

Saiga .223 skeleton stock, 20.5" barrel, with a Leapers 3-9x40 scope. Shooting a 2 5/16" 5-round pattern at 100 yards once sighted in with Black Hills 60 grain softpoint. If I threw out the widest shot, it would be 2" even. This was a gun that was factory tested to 3.6" (converted to US measurements). That's way better than I expected. The Leapers scope is a perfect match for the Saiga. It looks like it belongs there, and the optics are spectacular. And its turrets are finger-adjustable, so sighting in is as easy as it gets. All in all, I could not be happier.

 

Notes: the Black Hills 60 grain ammo shoots lower, but tighter than the 55 grain Sellier and Bellot I had been using. I had to significantly adjust my sights when switching between the two. However, once I had it on, it was dead on. I am preparing this gun for javelina (aka collared peccary) season. Initially I had some concerns that it would not be accurate enough at the 50-100 yard ranges required for javelina, but after today I have no doubts. The skeleton stock is a dramatic upgrade in the comfort and performance of the gun. The gun sights MUCH better with it. I recommend it for anyone. Once you have one of these, there's no real point in converting.

Edited by Mike the Wolf
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  • 4 months later...

I went out shooting a few months ago with my brother, he has a 7.62x39 unconverted with a red dot on it. He is naturally a good shot, very little practice just very steady. First day out he was hitting baseball size groups at 100 yards.

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100 yard 762x39 , shot from a sand bag rest, trimmed barrel to 16 inches, 11 degree crown, vortex break.

 

Puting a real crown on there made it a whole new rifle didn't it?

 

 

Here's my S308 after putting in a 5 shot group,then adjusting and another 5 shot group.

CIMG0721.jpg

 

My current favorite 7.62x39 is hovering right around 3 inches but I have yet to load any real ammo for it or recut the crown but I have built 7.62x39 rifles that turned in sub 2 inch groups in the past even from a Junk Maadi PARS gun with an off center bore,LOL

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Dont have a Saiga rifle, have the S12. Its 1 DOA at 25 yds. (Thats Dead On Arrival) and that is all that matters to me.

 

I dont care about 1 ragged hole that can be covered with a quarter at 100 yds, leave that to the AR guys.

 

I care about killing, or at least hitting in the kill zone what I intend to kill with every shot, be it rifle, pistol or shotty at their intended distances.

 

Translation:

 

"I love AK's and military rifles and all that cool stuff but I'm really not that good at shooting. But why learn to shoot good? I'll just go on the internet and pretend everyone who cares about accurate shooting isn't as smart and cool as me."

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Dont have a Saiga rifle, have the S12. Its 1 DOA at 25 yds. (Thats Dead On Arrival) and that is all that matters to me.

 

I dont care about 1 ragged hole that can be covered with a quarter at 100 yds, leave that to the AR guys.

 

I care about killing, or at least hitting in the kill zone what I intend to kill with every shot, be it rifle, pistol or shotty at their intended distances.

 

Translation:

 

"I love AK's and military rifles and all that cool stuff but I'm really not that good at shooting. But why learn to shoot good? I'll just go on the internet and pretend everyone who cares about accurate shooting isn't as smart and cool as me."

 

Awww, that's mean. And that Saiga-12 better be DOA at 100 yards at least.

 

On a related note: I sighted in my 9mm AR-15 at 50 yards and then shot a 3 shot group at 100 to see what it could do. It was under 0.50" center to center, it was ridiculous and I couldn't stop laughing. It was as useless of a result as missing the paper entirely. I've come to the conclusion that nobody should ever trust 3 round groups for anything but sighting in. I bet $100 that gun of mine can't really shoot better than 4 MOA with luck. I bet it's in the 5 or 6 area, with me.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

I have GOT to figure out what it is you guys are doing to get those groups. Optics or no, surplus ammo or Remington's finest, I can't consistently hit paper. I'm even using a mechanical bench now.

 

Paladin, let me suggest going to an Appleseed. I was doing OK before that, but have vastly improved since.

 

Jim

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  • 5 weeks later...

Shot 150 rounds into an 7-8" +/- target at 50 yards. Almost all were centered on the target. Just high then low when I went from 100 m - 200 m settings.

 

Of course my 'range' is now closed till March so to really check my group get to un-happily wait.. sucks..009.gif

 

I was going to BENCH it and just do groups to see if I can beat the aweful factory 143mm spread (spec sheet).

 

I was just plowing away 022.gif to test function and not accurizing at all..

 

You can see the group up top is TIGHT (and patterend) in the middle then I started playin'.... Shot at the left X, and then lowered to 200 m setting and lined up 'center' again.

 

Target is still DOA.. So I am happy..

post-8775-12637728350718_thumb.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

These results make me think 2 things:

 

1. The .223 and 5.45 aren't any better than the 7.62? Surprising

2. Probably the average Saiga is as accurate as an average $800 AR

 

edit

 

#3 The .308 Saiga may be a more practical buy than the $600 Rommy PSL's on the market

Edited by Regal
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Regal.. here is a link to 4 posts I did on MY 2 Saigas.. (some with video). I still need improvment IMHO.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=52190&st=0 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=54320&st=0 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51667&st=0 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=52793&st=0

 

The 5.45x39 shoots abit FLATTER than the 7.62x39. Groups ARE smaller (when scoped) with the 5.45.

 

Some guys on here do the 1-2 MOA at 100 yard on here supposedly but VERY few post pics.

 

At 100 yards with MY 5.45x39 and 6x32 CHEAP scope I got the zombies eyeball..

 

At 200 yards I got the 'side' of the zombies head..

 

Hope these help ya. I was going to PM you but decided to re-share these for anyone else reading.

 

 

Al

 

 

 

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Well, here's my Bullpupped S-12, 19" barrel, 10rnds Mil issue 9 pellet 00 buck at 40yds. I counted 78 of the 90 .30 pellets on a 2'x3' paper. Slugs are hitting at about 2-4" groups at same, so what... about 4-6+ at 100yrds maybe. Hey, a .62(?) slug is gonna hurt right? Just no hostage snipeing, lol. I need to get to a real range and see what I can do.

post-15573-063970500 1277647210_thumb.jpg

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My saiga 7.62x39 out of the box does at least clover leaf to less groups @ 25yards will update after scope is mounted. My eyes are not up to saiga open sights much beyond that range, but at the same time it would probably not go well for any large size target I aimed at out 300 yards. Deer to man size at that range if the lighting was right or I put some high visibility paint on the front site. I believe the gun has exceptional accuracy potential. Most of the negative reports I've read, are probably posted by poor marksmen.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 5 weeks later...

In the spirit of "show up or shut up", here are some of my 22" S308's best groups at 100 yards:

 

Prvi Partizan 168gr HP Match (the group without calipers is on an A-23 target):

th_PPU168MHP_1.jpgth_PPU168MHP_2.jpg

th_PPU168MHP_3.jpgth_PPU168MHP_4.jpg

 

Prvi Partizan 150gr SP (the flier is probably mine, the four-shot cluster is just under 1.5"):

th_PPU150SP.jpg

 

Tula 150gr FMJ (that aiming point is 2" in diameter):

th_Tula150FMJ.jpg

 

Radway Green surplus (the first group includes one shot that ended up on another target paper, the long axis measurement of the second group is a hair under 2.5"):

th_RG_1.jpgth_RG_2.jpg

 

Black Hills 168gr HP match (the grid lines are at 1" intervals):

th_BH168MHP.jpg

 

I shot a dozen brands of ammo, and these were the only ones that were close to being acceptable. Other ammo, even fairly good stuff like Federal OTM, was turning in 4-6" groups. That's why I've nicknamed my rifle, "The Heartbreaker".

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  • 1 month later...

Forgot to mention... 0.308 and 0.223 based Saigas/VEPRs shouldn't really apply.

 

The reason being is that they're somehow more accurate anyhow. The 308 VEPRs all shoot very very tight groups with surplus ammo. The same goes for the 223 VEPRs.

 

It's the 7.62x39 non-SKS rifles that seem to have difficulty hitting sub 2" groups at 100 yd consistently.

 

I see the SKS mentioned alot when it comes to accuracy. But when you hop on the SKS boards most people get 3-4 inch groups at @ 100. 2" may be possible, but it is certainly not the norm.

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Forgot to mention... 0.308 and 0.223 based Saigas/VEPRs shouldn't really apply.

 

The reason being is that they're somehow more accurate anyhow. The 308 VEPRs all shoot very very tight groups with surplus ammo. The same goes for the 223 VEPRs.

 

It's the 7.62x39 non-SKS rifles that seem to have difficulty hitting sub 2" groups at 100 yd consistently.

 

According to Izhmash's website the Saiga .308 will place 10 rounds in a 40 to 45mm group and the .223 is stated to be 20 to 23% more accurate than the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. They don't give a number for the 7.62x39 but obviously it must be more than 45mm, or 1.8 inches.

 

http://izhevsk.club.guns.ru/

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The .308 Saiga may be a more practical buy than the $600 Rommy PSL's on the market

No "may" about it. .308 ammo is a lot cheaper and easier to find, plus nobody makes 150gr match ammo. Magazines are almost certainly easier to find, too. But I still love my PSL. She just needs some more TLC.

 

And I have drilled a ragged one-hole group at 100 yards with Petra, about 6-8 seconds between shots.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm not. I can't shoot any x54R surplus at the matches, it's *all* steelcore (more precisely, sticks to a magnet). So I gotta shoot PRVI 150gr softpoints at ~$0.85 to $1.15/round. And where the hell are you finding milsurp for $88 a spamcan? Cheapest I've seen is $160 for the Czech silvertip that Petra likes.

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