Bad Bob 0 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) OK, your NUMBER ONE reference for a Saiga conversion is here: http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/ This is the 'Saiga Conversion Bible;' read it more than once (like, 4 or 5 times?) before you start. Print out a copy, and highlight the parts that you think might be difficult. Ask questions on this forum, BEFORE you end up in trouble. I'll post a few comments, based on my experience converting my 16+" .223 Saiga - your mileage may vary, etc., etc. (And I gave blood a few hours ago, so I reserve the right to correct any screw-ups I may make in this post... ;>) "Converting a Saiga to Pistol Grip Configuration" No big deal, but the price quoted as of November 2003 is (for obvious reasons) a bit outdated right now. But don't worry, the Saiga is (IMHO) still the best deal on the "homeland defense rifle" market, even with today's slightly increased prices. FWIW, the lowest price I saw during my build was a bit over $230, delivered, for a .223 Saiga. I paid more than that, and still consider my Saiga to be the bargain of the century. The 'cookbook' notes that the conversion can be accomplished using "mostly simple hand tools." That is 100% correct, in my experience. The 'cookbook' also lists "the parts used to make this conversion legal." As far as 'compliance' parts go, you could also add (at least potentially) US-made muzzle device, US-made magazine floorplates, and US-made magazine followers. "Converting a Saiga Step 1" No comments - this is pretty straight forward. "Converting a Saiga Step 2" The author of the 'cookbook' notes that "the designers at Izhmash Arsenal built a transfer bar mechanism and altered the standard trigger to work with it." That is 100% correct - and in many cases, the result was a somewhat degraded trigger pull. If you would like to improve the trigger pull on your Saiga, you might want to consider a conversion, just so you can use parts that are based on the standard AK fire control group (FCG). For whatever it's worth, I believe the AK trigger mechanism is based on the US M-1 Garand rifle's fire control group: in my experience, many AKs have smoother (if longer) trigger pulls than garden-variety AR-15s. Doing a conversion has the potential to improve the trigger pull of your Saiga. "1. Remove the sporter trigger and hammer axles. This is done by carefully removing the expanded shoulder on the side opposite the head. I used a hand drill and a 1/4 inch bit." This part is a 'piece of cake,' if you follow the directions. Just go slow, as recommended - spin the bit a few turns, and check the result. Repeat as needed. This was one of the easiest parts of the conversion for me (even though I was worried about it, before I started). "5. Remove the permanent fire control pins..." Before you do this, take a good long look at how all of the parts fit inside - particularly the bolt-hold-open (BHO) plate and spring (the spring has a 'long leg' and a 'short leg,' and an 'up side' and a 'down side:' remember how it fits in there). Draw a little sketch if you need one (I would). The reason I mention this: there are excellent 'cookbook' tutorials available online for installing a standard AK FCG, but no one seems to have pictures of the Saiga BHO mechanism. In my opinion, the BHO is definitely worth reinstalling (with minor modifications), so you will want to see how the plate & spring fit in, relative to each other and the other FCG parts BEFORE you disassemble this part of the Saiga. "Converting a Saiga Step 3" The 'cookbook' mentions that "(t)he term 'Saiga' comes from a medium sized antelope" - which is almost extinct (IMHO), due to the excessive influence of Left-wing-nut-job-environmentalists. Keep in mind: your access to Saiga rifles and shotguns can also become 'extinct,' due to (again, IMHO) the excessive influence of Left-wing-nut-jobs, including Comrade Speaker Pelosi (I spent 20 years trapped in California - ask me how I know). "1. ...we must first remove the trigger guard spot weld." I don't know about the rest of you folks, but this was the single hardest operation in the entire conversion for me. I will admit, I may have started out with an inadequate drill bit. A word of warning: use a brand new, quality, cobalt bit for this part, and don't forget the cutting fluid. Why? If you go at the spot weld with an inadequate bit, you may just 'work harden' the surface (apparently spinning a cheap bit on top of a piece of metal can actually make that piece of metal HARDER). I ended up using a diamond bit chucked in my Dremel tool, which allowed me to work the weld down far enough that I could break it loose, by twisting back & forth, without (fortunately - because I wanted to reuse the trigger guard) destroying anything. On my .223, the trigger and grip nut holes were there from the factory. For whatever it's worth, I would recommend going with a double-hook trigger (IF you are comfortable cutting a second trigger hook slot, to match the first). More on this later. "Converting a Saiga Step 4" No comments from me - this is pretty straight forward. "Converting a Saiga Step 5" You might want to repaint your receiver BEFORE you start reattaching parts like the trigger guard. Of course, you can always assemble things to check for fit, disassemble, paint, and then reassemble. Your call. The 'cookbook' recommends "8-32 x 1/4" screws, which should work OK. A word of warning to anyone who has done 'kit'-type AK screw builds: the rear trigger guard screw can be installed with the nut inside the receiver, as usual (check for interference with FCG) - but the front trigger guard screw will probably hang up you FCG (or prevent installation) if you go that way. The front screw will probably need to be installed with the nut outside the receiver (more on this later). Another 'heads up:' there will be an empty rivet hole inside the trigger guard. If you would like to plug it, I would suggest that you open it up to the same diameter as the 4 left over FCG holes at the rear of the receiver, BEFORE you install the trigger guard: that way, you can use one of the same plastic plugs to fill it, that you will probably be buying to plug the 4 unused FCG holes. A simple, cheap, and easy solution - if you take care of things ahead of time. (If you don't, that little plastic plug will fight you, like a rabid, cornered rat, if you try to jam it in that rivet hole - ask me how I know). The 'cookbook' recommends that you "trim a little off the front of the [trigger] guard." Because I was planning to use 99% Galil Orlite magazines, I left "the front of the [trigger] guard" long, so it could act as a filler between the bottom of the receiver, and the top of the locking lug on the Orlite mags (which tend to fit a bit loose). If you go this route, it allows your Orlites to fit tighter. Word of warning: if you leave the front trigger guard tang 'long,' check EVERY ONE of your Orlites for fit BEFORE you permanently install the trigger guard: it's much easier to thin the front 'tang' with a file, than it is to thin the locking lugs on multiple magazines. If you are not using mostly Orlites, this is a non-issue. OK, back to the front trigger guard nut - which pretty much has to be outside the receiver (because it's dead-center under the FCG, if you are reusing the Saiga trigger guard). I went to the hardware store & bought a square 8-32 nut, and glued it to the bottom of the trigger guard, lined up with the front hole (glue is temporary, just to hold the nut in place until the screw gets a grip, so the the type of glue doesn't matter much - I think I used contact cement). The square nut I used was big enough that it 'locked up' against the front of the trigger guard bow, when I tightened the screw from inside the receiver. That way, I didn't have to try to get pliers or a wrench inside the mag locking mechanism, to try to control some little bitty hex nut (always a PITA). Worked like a charm. Because I left the front trigger guard tang 'long,' I also glued a little washer on the inside of the front trigger guard mounting hole, to keep the trigger guard from bending when I tightened the screw (take a look at the parts in place, if you go that way for your Orlites, and I think you'll see why I did it). Again, worked like a charm. "Converting a Saiga Step 6" The author notes: "Because of the insane gun laws in the United States, there is a cottage industry which has grown up around providing US-made parts, and furniture is one of the easier items to manufacture." Just a personal comment - if you want a 100% reliable firearm, use the KISS Principle when buying or making 'compliance' parts. Almost by definition, actual military parts may be more durable/reliable/less-prone-to-breakage than after-market parts, so my inclination (and your mileage may vary, etc., etc.) is to use after-market parts in non-critical locations (furniture, or magazine parts - if a mag malfunctions, you can alway grab a different one). If you need to use an after-market part in a critical location - the trigger, for example - I prefer a little 'insurance.' Case in point: if a trigger hook breaks on a single-hook trigger (more likely with after-market parts than mil-spec parts, IMHO), your firearm becomes 100% nonfunctional. (You've got an 8 pound boat anchor at that point - hope you can use one.) If a trigger hook breaks on a double-hook trigger (also more likely with after-market parts than mil-spec parts, IMHO), your firearm remains functional. For whatever it's worth (FWIW)... "2. Place the pistol grip nut into the nut hole from the inside of the receiver." Again, FWIW, I used an internal pistol grip (PG) reinforcing plate. I believe all miltary folding-stock AKs have an external reinforcing plate welded around the PG nut hole (I assume there's a reason for it, or they probably wouldn't go to the trouble). Not being a welder, I figured an internal reinforcing plate might do the trick. What I came up with amounts to a big, rectangular washer, with a rectangular hole in the middle sized and angled to fit the PG nut. Use it inside the receiver (you can epoxy it in place, once you are certain it fits) to distribute any forces applied to the pistol grip. Or skip the 'reinforcing plate' completely: most folks do, without any problem... "Converting a Saiga Step 7" "Installing the Fire Control Group" Here's a link that may be of interest: www/gunsnet.net/Linx310/fcgremoval.htm (and I hope the link is still active - I'm having trouble checking it right now) "2. ...our task is to dismantle it in order to retrieve the little spring inside the assembly..." Some folks have a hard time getting this little SOB apart (you can't drill out the shaft, in my experience, because it spins if you hit it with a drill bit). Your other option is to order a disconnector spring, possibly from the same company that might be supplying your other 'compliance' parts (PG, etc.). "5. The first part to go is the hammer." Actually, first you need to decide if you will be reinstalling the BHO device. I recommend it (but my wife might laugh at that comment, based on the number of four-letter-words that she heard from me during the installation process). In retrospect, I still recommend it - but obviously, your mileage may vary, etc., etc. The FCG is definitely easier to install without the BHO device. If you are going to reinstall the BHO device, you will need to make sure the part of your replacement hammer that surrounds the axis pin matches the same part of the factory Saiga hammer - in other words, you might have to shorten the right (ejection port) side. That will make room for the BHO plate, if you are going to reinstall it. Again, even though it was a 'pain-in-the-@ss' to install the FCG with the BHO (it took me over 30 minutes to get it installed, instead of 3 minutes or less without), I do recommend it, if you are willing to take a shot. Having the BHO when you are shooting at the range is a definite plus, and it may be of use to you in other ways. Word to the wise: before you reinstall the BHO plate, see how much you can grind/file off the part that sticks out of the receiver, so it won't interfere with your trigger finger (assuming you're right handed). The BHO plate was made long enough to stick down through the receiver AND the 'trigger plate' they installed on the bottom of the 'factory-stock' Saiga receiver: without the 'trigger plate' on your rifle, you can probably remove almost 1/8" from the part of the BHO plate that sticks out of the receiver, without any problem (move the plate up & down - you don't want to remove enough to let the plate slip up inside the receiver, and come loose - take a look, it sounds more complicated than it is). "9. Now comes the hard part." Actually, this is no problem with the G2 FCG, because you can pre-assemble the FCG before it goes in the rifle. Works great! "10. ...The necessary thing is to figure out a way to prevent the hammer and trigger axles from backing out of the receiver..." I recommend the Red Star Arms axis pin retaining plate. I think others will agree with me. "...fill in the holes that are left from the sporter configuration." I got plastic plugs (forget what size - any help?) from my local hardware store, for $0.25 each. I got 5 - 4 for the holes in question, and one for the rivet hole inside the trigger guard (if you opened it up a bit to match the diameter of the other 4 holes, before you installed the trigger guard, installation will be a snap - if not, installation will be a PITA - ask me how I know). Check the part of the plastic plug you installed in the rivet hole, that sticks up inside the receiver, to make sure it doesn't interfere with the FCG. The one I used didn't come close, but when it comes to the FCG, you're better off checking such things up front. Safety first! "Converting a Saiga Step 8" "There are two sources for these bullet guides." I recommend dinzag (check this forum for his posts). End of story, as far as I'm concerned. (On the other hand, if you want to construct your own bullet guide, that information is also available, so have at it! Personally, I prefer to support our WECSOG-parts suppliers...) "Converting a Saiga Step 9" "Installing the butt stock... 'Euro-length' is about 1.5 inches shorter..." Looks to me like 'Euro-length' provides about the same length-of-pull as an A1 stock on an AR-15. NATO length would be closer to the A2 stock. FWIW... "Converting a Saiga Step 10" "Fitting the magazine..." I used Galil Orlites, with great results (thanks again, dinzag, angrydutchman, & vjor!). If you would prefer Weiger mags, I posted a link a while back where they were still listed for about $26 each ( www.tickbitesupply.com/davids1.html - Part # Mag-Acc-AK223, $25.99). Don't know if they still have them in stock, or not. "Converting a Saiga Step 11" "...[P]ainting technique..." A lot of folks here recommend Duplicolor 500 degree paint, because it is a close match to the Saiga factory paint. It is, indeed. But, because it is not a 'bake-on' paint, like the Duplicolor 1200 degree paint, it tends to come off when exposed to solvents, or alcohol (which I used for cleaning before painting in the lettering on the receiver), etc. If you want a more durable finish, the 1200 degree paint (or some other gun finish) might work for you. If you need an oven to bake any coating you select, it doesn't have to cost much (see my thread on a low-cost parts oven). Because I initially went with the 500 degree paint, I may just give my Saiga a 'touch-up' coat of the same paint when it needs it... Good luck, folks! FWIW, I will definitely say, based on my personal experience, that a Saiga conversion is more likely to give you a better quality firearm, than will any AK 'kit' build on any 'compliance' receiver. Obviously, your mileage may vary, etc., etc., etc. But I do love that 100% original Russian Izhmash receiver, with matching Russian bolt, and matching Russian bolt carrier, and matching Russian barrel, and matching Russian gas system, etc., etc., etc. ;>) Edited January 29, 2007 by Bad Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Awesome! Always wanted to do a conversion myself. to damn afraid I'd screw up a perfectly good gun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) Awesome!Always wanted to do a conversion myself. to damn afraid I'd screw up a perfectly good gun! Come on, Compadre - you're not going to screw it up, you're going to improve it! All I did was follow directions (provided by others who went before me), and I did just fine. Take it slow & easy, and you'll do just fine, too! There are also some truly excellent gunsmiths that can do the conversion for you. Not only will they guarantee the success of your conversion, but it will increase the value of your firearm, as well. For example, a Tromix Saiga is worth a lot more than a 'Bad Bob' Saiga, just like an Arizona Response Systems FAL is worth a lot more than a 'Bad Bob' FAL. (I just enjoy doing my own work, which is why I'm a semi-certifiable WECSOGer... ;>) Edited January 27, 2007 by Bad Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Damn bro, about time you show your steel, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Damn bro, about time you show your steel, I'm just a slow, old, gray-haired geezer, Compadre... ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) Damn bro, about time you show your steel, I'm just a slow, old, gray-haired geezer, Compadre... ;>) They say that the devil is the devil, because is old and know his stuff. Edited January 27, 2007 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I'm a mean hm... hm... servant of God!....... ( From Dusk Till Dawn) "Psychos do NOT explode when sunlight hits 'em!!!" ('From Dusk Till Dawn') ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 They say that the devil is the devil, because is oldand now his stuff. Thanks for the compliment, Compadre, but I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable, or accomplished, or energetic, as El Diablo. (Thank God: I'm just a slow old geezer who wants to motor on thru life with a minimum of difficulties - and a maximum of [legal] fireworks... ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Awesome!Always wanted to do a conversion myself. to damn afraid I'd screw up a perfectly good gun! Come on, Compadre - you're not going to screw it up, you're going to improve it! All I did was follow directions (provided by others who went before me), and I did just fine. Take it slow & easy, and you'll do just fine, too! There are also some truly excellent gunsmiths that can do the conversion for you. Not only will they guarantee the success of your conversion, but it will increase the value of your firearm, as well. For example, a Tromix Saiga is worth a lot more than a 'Bad Bob' Saiga, just like an Arizona Response Systems FAL is worth a lot more than a 'Bad Bob' FAL. (I just enjoy doing my own work, which is why I'm a semi-certifiable WECSOGer... ;>) I thought I was doing good when I replaced my AK stock with a tapco stock. I have had one s-12 done by Red*Jacket and I am saving up my ca$h so I can get a Tromix sometime in the near future. I think if I could ever get over "the fear" of doing the work, I feel it would be a great feeling of pride knowing I accomplished something so cool. regardless of value. anyhow, I thank you (and so many others on the forum) for the insight and knowledge! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aurbis 1 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Another 'heads up:' there will be an empty rivet hole inside the trigger guard. If you would like to plug it, I would suggest that you open it up to the same diameter as the 4 left over FCG holes at the rear of the receiver, BEFORE you install the trigger guard: that way, you can use one of the same plastic plugs to fill it, that you will probably be buying to plug the 4 unused FCG holes. A simple, cheap, and easy solution - if you take care of things ahead of time. (If you don't, that little plastic plug will fight you, like a rabid, cornered rat, if you try to jam it in that rivet hole - ask me how I know). FWIW, you can easily do this afterwards... Just take a small round file or use a drill with a small bit and slowly expand the circle. Doesn't take much. Ask me how I know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I did my first conversion ...a 410... 2 weekends ago. Easy except for the BHO! I too had a REAL HARD time geting the bolt hold open on my 410. About 2 hours! Next time I may just notch the safety like this. http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/ss/ak_safety_notch.htm Does anybody have experiance with the notch on the safety and have some comments they want to share? Also as I started to drill into the mag clip for the forward trigger guard hole I noticed the damn guard was already in REAL TIGHT. F it! I stopped and just made sure the rear nut was tight with Lock Tight. The trigger guard is tight as a tick and it left me extra room to fiddle with that damn BHO! Ok time to show off my Baby! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wahlie 1 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Thanks for the info. I just took it and put it into a microsoft word document so everyone can download it and compare to the other Saiga Conversion Docs. I know that I found your post extremely useful. thanks, Chris SAIGA_CONVERSION.doc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I would like to note, that when removing the rear permanenet axis pins DO NOT use a 1/4" bit if you plan to use hole plugs... Use the 3/16ths bit , that way you will not make a larger hole than you need to... it will still pop out just as nice with a 3/16th's versus a 1/4" bit. Then when you pop out those pins... you make sure to drill the holes to the 3/16th's with the same bit... now your hole plugs will fit PERFECTLY! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I did my first conversion ...a 410... 2 weekends ago. Easy except for the BHO! I too had a REAL HARD time geting the bolt hold open on my 410. About 2 hours! What ended up helping me the most was a surplus dentist's tool (in simple terms, a steel handle with a small steel hook on the end). The end of the BHO spring kept slipping off the BHO plate, no matter how careful I was when I was trying to get the axis pins installed. I ended up using the dental tool to fish for the end of the spring, and pull it up where it was supposed to go, on the BHO plate. I really like the BHO, so I will definitely reinstall it if I ever have to tear down the rifle again. But it is nowhere near as quick to get back together as a stock AK FCG. By the way, that .410 of yours has turbocharged my thinking about doing a Saiga shotgun conversion. I'm leaning towards a 12 gauge (because I've got a bunch of 12 gauge ammo, and the new US-made 10-rd mags look very tempting), but normally (that means, 'conventional American shotgun' ;>) I'm more of a 20 gauge fan. But I bet you can empty that LOOOOONG .410 magazine in about a second and a half, and put every round on the target... ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I would like to note, that when removing the rear permanenet axis pins DO NOT use a 1/4" bit if you plan to use hole plugs... Use the 3/16ths bit , that way you will not make a larger hole than you need to... it will still pop out just as nice with a 3/16th's versus a 1/4" bit. Then when you pop out those pins... you make sure to drill the holes to the 3/16th's with the same bit... now your hole plugs will fit PERFECTLY! That's an excellent suggestion! Many thanks!!! ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mtberen 0 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 OK, I've been to Home Depot and Menards, and no one there seems to know about these black plastic plugs (the ones everyone here uses to fill the axis pin holes). Does anyone know their original purpose? I mean, I don't even know what department to look in Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Ace Hardware, Lowes. Theyre called 3/16" Nylon Hole Plugs Hillman part #881274 You have to open up the holes a little to fit them. Edited March 14, 2007 by ArcFault Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 OK, I've been to Home Depot and Menards, and no one there seems to know about these black plastic plugs (the ones everyone here uses to fill the axis pin holes). Does anyone know their original purpose? I mean, I don't even know what department to look in Any help would be appreciated. If anybody can't find these things, please let me know - the last time I checked, my local hardware store had a bunch, at $0.25 each. If they're in stock I can get them for you at whatever the current price is (plus sales tax & postage, probably less than $2 total), and just mail them to you. I used five of them (four for the pin holes, and one for the rivet hole inside the trigger guard). They work great (although I would recomment opening up the rivet hole a bit, to match the pin hole diameter, so the plug will slide in easier)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mtberen 0 Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Thanks for the help guys, I'll see if those stores have them....If not, I'll be talking to you Bob. BTW, great addendum to the Saiga cookbook, very helpful. I just finished the PG conversion on my .223 with the exception of the stuff I'm getting from Dinzag (HG retainer, feed ramp, muzzle break, gas tube). Also got my 7.62x39 back from the sandblasting shop; primed and hit it with the Duplicolor low-gloss....Boy, it's really making my shitty old Hesse conversion look good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 ...Boy, it's really making my shitty old Hesse conversion look good. (FWIW, I was born & raised in Minnesota, but I don't think I would ever use the words "Hesse" and "good" in the same sentence... ;>) Let me know if I can send any of those little plastic plugs your way, Compadre... ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Ace Hardware, Lowes. Theyre called 3/16" Nylon Hole Plugs Hillman part #881274 You have to open up the holes a little to fit them. I used 1 1/4 binder screws to fill the holes in My Saiga. The front screw holds the trigger and hammer retaining spring. I had to grind down the screw excess length to fit the receiver then I painted them with Dupli Color's semi gloss black engine paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mtberen 0 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 LOL Bob, I also said "shitty" and "hesse" in the same sentence......It's been a long road with that gun: loctited folding stock after it came loose first time out; bought a dinzag-style retainer because the lower handguard kept coming off; filed down the terrible muzzle brake weld; filed the back of the receiver where they welded on the rear block; and finally sandblasted the whole damn thing because they didn't touch up the finish after the conversion (bloches all over the receiver). Anyway, I did find the plugs at Lowes; as soon as I said Hillman, they knew exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for looking out for your Saiga peeps.... PS-Where in MN? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 (edited) LOL Bob, I also said "shitty" and "hesse" in the same sentence......It's been a long road with that gun: loctited folding stock after it came loose first time out; bought a dinzag-style retainer because the lower handguard kept coming off; filed down the terrible muzzle brake weld; filed the back of the receiver where they welded on the rear block; and finally sandblasted the whole damn thing because they didn't touch up the finish after the conversion (bloches all over the receiver). Heck, with all the work you put into the thing, I'm not sure I would call it a 'Hesse' anymore. How about a 7.62 'mberens?' ;>) PS-Where in MN? Little Falls. I actually met Charles Lindbergh once (like I said, I'm an old fart ;>)... Edited March 18, 2007 by Bad Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 PS-Where in MN? Little Falls. I actually met Charles Lindbergh once (like I said, I'm an old fart ;>)... Damn bro, the Charles Lindbergh that crose the atlantic? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Damn bro, the Charles Lindbergh that crose the atlantic? That's the man. Most folks don't know it, but back in WWII, he went out to the Pacific theater of operations, as a civilian, to help train USAAF P-38 pilots (a lot of them were having major problems, if-and-when they lost an engine on take off, with a heavy load of fuel & ordnance). While he was out there, he actually flew combat missions in a P-38 (which was a definite 'no-no' for a civilian), and word has it that he actually 'smoked' enough Jap aircraft to qualify as an 'ace' - even though he was a civilian. That guy knew how to FLY! He's buried on Maui: I visited his grave a few years back. He's resting on top of a cliff over the sea, next to a little Christian church along the northeast coast. Take it from Charles Lindbergh & me - Maui is one great place to be, now or forever... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mtberen 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Wow, beautiful Little Falls....I've been to the Lindberg house, the wild animal park, and gotten thrown out of that little supper club across the highway from the Camp Ripley exit.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 ... and gotten thrown out of that little supper club across the highway from the Camp Ripley exit.... Hope it worked out OK for you. Not sure what 'infraction' you might have commited - as always, I can't speak for my neighbors... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Echo_Four 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Take it from Charles Lindbergh & me - Maui is one great place to be, now or forever... Yeah, Maui is great. As long as you don't mind all of the anti-gun morons that are in charge of the place. Personally, I think I am capable of carrying a gun on my person without killing anyone and I like more than 10 rounds between reloads. They fix their government, and I'll be on the next plane/boat over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Take it from Charles Lindbergh & me - Maui is one great place to be, now or forever... Yeah, Maui is great. As long as you don't mind all of the anti-gun morons that are in charge of the place. Personally, I think I am capable of carrying a gun on my person without killing anyone and I like more than 10 rounds between reloads. They fix their government, and I'll be on the next plane/boat over. Actually, I know what you mean. My wife used to live in Australia - every time the topic of 'moving back' comes up, I immediately think of one thing: I will have to sell everything except my Lee-Enfields (and maybe even those). Those Ausies are world-class (or better ;>) in an awful lot of ways, but how they let their 'guvmint' impose those gun control rules on 'em 'only God knows'... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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