"SHTF" = WTF

[BobAsh 582]

I've noticed a disturbing trend around here lately- the "what-if-SHTF" threads. People, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but seriously- don't you have something more interesting to think about?

 

This kind of sophomoric thinking is why I don't visit ARFcom much anymore. Fucking threads like "Did you see what was in Jack Bauer's BOB? OMFG!" (Actual Arfcom thread, BTW).

 

Look, I like being prepared as much as the next guy...hell, I was a Boy Scout AND a Marine. But it's getting old, yo. You know that most every generation has thought they were in the "end times", right?

 

In closing: Tin foil hat-wearers, you may laugh at me when "the apocalypse" comes. Until that happens, I will reserve the right to laugh at YOU.

[frr 1]

I cant speak for everyone, but my take on it is that different people have different perceptions on what exactly "SHTF" means. To some it means the apocalypse, to others it could be being stuck in something like Katrina, the Rodney King riots, or some other similar breakdown of social order.

[getitat 609]

Ditto that, frr

 

Bob, I never gave it much serious thought before the hurricane stuff down here. Really opened my eyes as to how fragile our society is. Seeing Home Depot employees patrolling their generators with hunting rifles gives one the notion that there ain't anybody to call.....Thugs were bad here, obviously out -of-control in New Orleans, police were as hamstrung as anybody else. That nearly complete breakdown of the fiber of society wasn't imagined, and it can certainly happen again.

 

You want to see SHTF? If Iran's Bozo president had his way, OPEC would only sell crude for gold. You know where that would leave the USA, with our inflated-value, "print-as-much-as-we-need" paper-money currency? It would leave us without 60%-70% of our oil, and man, you might be surprised how fast things go south from there.

 

That's the terrorism that scares me, the other shit just makes me want to kill.

 

It's not that far-fetched....OPEC has China and their sub's to buy oil now, they aren't that dependant on us anymore.

 

That's the kind of scenario I foresee to make me want to be able to pack it in.

 

Maybe hairbrained, but I vow to not be a "roofie in the flood". Protecting me and mine is my job here.

 

JMHO

 

Respectfully posted,

Guido2 in Houston

[legonas 1]

In closing: Tin foil hat-wearers, you may laugh at me when "the apocalypse" comes. Until that happens, I will reserve the right to laugh at YOU.

 

start laughing.

 

[Ammo2Fm 1]

In closing: Tin foil hat-wearers, you may laugh at me when "the apocalypse" comes. Until that happens, I will reserve the right to laugh at YOU.

 

start laughing.

 

Now that some funny shit! I do believe shit has hit the fan and I am arming up to follow my new leader. VIVA LEGONAS!!!

[KINGFISH 0]

Im sure that all of you guys have heard the phrase

"better to have it and not need it than to need and not have it".

There is nothing wrong with having some "supplies" set aside.

In a SHTF scenario, better believe Im going to hold down my fort.

Hell, I dont even go to my camp without an extra pair of underwear(just in case SHTF)

[SinistralRifleman 0]

...to others it could be being stuck in something like Katrina, the Rodney King riots, or some other similar breakdown of social order.

 

That's what I envision...temporary breakdown of social order that could las from days to weeks, or maybe months depending on the severity and how many things happen at once. We've seen it happens too often in recent years to think otherwise.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I think a few ham sandwiches, a few bottles of water, a big bottle of booze, and an economy pack of condoms would hold me over for awhile.

 

I have plenty of time to scrouge up the other junk...............

[termite 463]

I was a boy scout too, but just what the HELL does SHTF stand for. This talking in code crap is chicken shit. My daddy taught me that if I have something to say, say it, and as ALWAYS, I got my head slapped, and when asked where did you learn those damn words, Hell Daddy,I learned the shit from you...SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP. It didn't go over to good in English class either, But there again, whe she asked me what a "RUT" was, I answered, it's either what deer's do in the winter, or something my old truck got stuck in last Saturday. Turned out she was saying ROOT, what the hell, I needed 3 days away from that "school" anyway. :) needless to say, I failed English class that year. Maybe if they offered Spanglish or Ebonics back then, I'd understand more now. JMF2CWOBS

[Bvamp 604]

my take on the SHTF thing is this:

 

better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[shaneman153a 39]

Okay, I think someone has taken the "zombie" thing and the SHTF thing a little too literally. I joke about the SHIT HITTING THE FAN (termite), but in reality I mean and armed invasion (of my home). I like Saiga-12's and 308s because they are a big ass version of an AK. And in a Red Dawn situation, it would be nice to have. But when I go to a gun store shopping, I don't think "the brown duck flies at night" or anything like that. Asking that question is like asking what the practical use is in a .50 BMG or an 8-inch Saiga 12 (cough.....hint hint)

 

JMF2CWOBS

 

My goodness termite, you've just contributed to the very thing you were bitching about, I'm gonna use that one. Thanks!!

 

edit: My 500th post. I'm officially a gun freak.

Edited February 8, 2007 by shaneman153a

[Red Jacket 329]

hell , shits always hitting the fan . just a matter of velocity , volume , direction and geography . you can either duck it , dodge it , shrug it off , shovel it or pretend it's just misunderstood and doesn't really smell that bad after all

 

or maybe hop in there with a stick and stir it

Edited February 8, 2007 by Red Jacket

[whatmanual 44]

Well if SHTF...

 

<---avatar says it all.

 

 

 

And if you don't have an arsenal of sorts (options), good to be on the side of those who do.

 

On that note: I'm on Tony's side.

 

 

[BobAsh 582]

" I was a boy scout too, but just what the HELL does SHTF stand for. This talking in code crap is chicken shit..."

 

-Take it easy, "termite". It's an acronym. People use them, especially in specialized groups such as this.

 

 

Don't get me wrong people, I keep a 1K box of ammo for each of my guns. My survival skills are well honed thanks to uncle sam. But this endless fantasizing over the "inevitable breakdown of society" is what I'm talking about. IMO, it's psychologically counterproductive. My plan for the future mainly involves investing in the market. I hope when you're ready to retire you will be happy with the choices you made.

[getitat 609]

Hello, Bob

I truly hope you are correct.

 

My personal viewpoint on it is far less "arms & ammo" than it is "simple preparedness" for basic necessities. I don't think that is really lunatic fringe thinking, I think it's responsible planning.

 

I refuse to be a victim, be it natural disaster or anything else.

 

I think discussion of other folks ideas of what they consider "preparedness" is not a bad thing, although I do agree that the weapons thing gets a bit too emphasized.

But, to each his own.

 

I, too, enjoy planning my retirement and "getting prepared" for when that time comes.

 

But, if between then and now.....

 

 

JMHO

 

Respectfully posted,

Guido2 in Houston

[Ronswin 26]

I keep several firearms and ammunition on hand (mostly for 3-gun), a portable generator with ample fuel (been through two hurricanes and one ice storm with days to weeks without power) and a month's worth of MRE's for my family (purchased at local base commisary). I don't live in an abandoned USAF missle silo in North Dakota so I don't think this make me a paranoid survivalist. There are plenty of reasons (some already stated above) for "being prepared".

 

 

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0429/p01s07-ussc.html

 

"Chance favors the prepared mind."

-L. Pasteur

Edited February 8, 2007 by Ronswin

[BobAsh 582]

Guido, I hope I'm right as well. In fact, I'm counting on it.

 

Ronswin, I don't have any problem with preparedness ...as I said, my larder is well stocked (food too) and I believe people should be ready for the odd natural disaster, power outage, etc.

 

Bvamp....man where do I start? "sand nigger"?"dune jockeys"? I really thought better of you.

 

I feel sorry for the poor bastard (probably a Buddhist Indian) at the convienience store where you buy your beer.

 

My family is Russian...we came over in the early '50s, right in the heat of the cold war. I know what it's like to be disliked for all the wrong reasons.

[trukreltrog 8]

We live in a unstable world. You have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I don't sweat if the "end times" are coming or not.

Because when the do Kirk Cameron, Willie Ames and myself are gonna meet Jesus in the sky!

Besides, if you got guns - you can always get supplies!

[scoutjoe 276]

Besides, if you got guns - you can always get supplies!

 

Not if I got guns to keep my supplies

 

But in all honesty ::adjusts tin foil:: keep some food, water and spare batteries on hand for a small radio. Guns would be nice to have but if your down to carrying ammo or water, take the water

[A|G 0]

For some people (like myself) it is difficult to think about this stuff without being consumed by it.

You start thiking; "1,000 rounds is a good idea . . . so 10,000 rounds would be ten times as good!"

Likewise;

I think it's difficult for people to disscuss "preparedness" without acting out Aesop's fable - The Grasshopper and The Ant.

 

A|G

[getitat 609]

And, if there is anything left to purchase, with no power, ATM's and credit cards ain't worth shit...Better have cash. And, don't wait until two days before the storm to make a bank run, 'cause they may be outa $$$ (as they were here on the Gulf Coast...)

 

Guido2 in Houston

[Bvamp 604]

in light of the nastiness of my last comment (deleted it because of my anti-muslim racist rant in it), I will restate it in simpler terms...

 

the arabs own the gas stations. when they own them ALL here, what do you think they plan to do? there is a good scenario nobody ever considers. what if they just blow them all up or even better, shut them all down? or then there is the power outage we had here in the northeast a few years ago. what if that happens again, but its out for a week? you dont think people will go nuts and start pillaging peoples homes? or then you have the already mentioned things like a bad hurricane or earthquake or riots or whatever. or how about when the arbas find out mohammend is represented in a south park cartoon as a superhero? im still wondering why they made a fuss about the still frame cartoon and not that one, to be honest. Im sure that will go over big. or how about the next influenza outbreak they say we are due for?

 

there are plenty of situations that can and eventually will happen. and the only thing you can count on is that your fellow human being will turn into an animal and you will have to be able to defend yourself and feed your family.

 

bob - think of me what you will for hating my enemy. ill try to not show my true self on the matter out of respect for the rest of you, but now you know. I really dont care what people think of me, for a long time now, but I suppose out of respect for others I should not fully vioce my opinion. I will also say this. I dont spend a dime at any place that is owned by one of those heathen assholes. I buy my gas from stewarts, I buy my smokes and beer from the local discount (which I checked to make sure it was an american that owned it), and I buy my food from the local market, not a big chain store that god knows who owns. I wont give those people a fucking dime of my money if I can help it. I have, many times, in my travels, turned right on around and gone up the street to get gas someplace else when I make the mistake of stopping at one of thier places. when I was in arizona, for instance, I went about three miles away from where I was staying to do just that. unlike many people, i walk the talk I speak.

 

what makes someone an american is not your color, how long you been here or what you call god (if you believe that crock, that is), didnt you all know this? it is the fact that you adopt our ways, our culture and our day to day life that makes you one. just because you are a citizen doesnt mean you are an american to me. you have to be part of our culture, not force your bullshit that is from some other place onto the rest of us because you miss home. (think latino california).

 

to each thier own I guess.

 

but in closing, if this all makes me a tinfoil hat wearer, well, so be it. at least I can cook my game meat in the fire with it when things do go bad. if it isnt us then it will be our children dealing with it when they are old. its really not a question of if, but when, if you ask me.

[bernerz 11]

I guess it's all in what you think SHTF really means. For me it would mean that my kid got out of her diapers and started playing with the suprise inside by smearing it on anything nearby. Being prepared for a weeks worth of power outage seems reasonable, beyond that, the dedication of time, money and resources just is too much unless you guys know something I don't.

[dinzag 31]

You are totally missing the point Bob.

 

It's all a smokescreen to justify having lots of gun stuff around...

(I thought everyone knew that?) I purposefully make the old lady watch

zombie movies when I'm running low on x39.

 

Shhhh! Don't blow it for the rest of us!

[Bvamp 604]

dinzag, I guess your old lady doesnt know that you only really need one or two, huh? heh heh. dont worry, we wont tell her.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

You are totally missing the point Bob.

 

It's all a smokescreen to justify having lots of gun stuff around...

(I thought everyone knew that?) I purposefully make the old lady watch

zombie movies when I'm running low on x39.

 

Shhhh! Don't blow it for the rest of us!

 

When there is no more room in Hell, the dead shall walk the earth.

I've been preparing for the zombi uprising since I was 6 years old!

I don't sweat people, but zombies-they creep me out.

[dinzag 31]

dinzag, I guess your old lady doesnt know that you only really need one or two, huh? heh heh. dont worry, we wont tell her.

Yeah, she'd be pissed! I'm always making her run 3-gun drills around the house.

(yap yap yap, why is this shotgun so heavy? Why do I need 10 mags per gun? yap yap yap)

 

Might as well think of others too. Hey you never know when guests will be over. Kids too.

Someones gotta reload & carry shit...

[JWarren 0]

Bob,

 

No offense, but have you ever been through a "SHTF" scenerio? I have. Now, I am not trying to be confrontational, but I want to point out a few things.

 

First, SHTF means a lot of different things to different people. On the less protracted and loosely defined use of the term, it may simply be car trouble or an intruder. On the most extreme, it may be a total global melt-down. More realistically (in my mind) is a regional natural disaster.

 

 

I got hammered by Hurricane Katrina.

Evacuation was not an option to me or most of my family due to a number of significant factors. Because of that, I did 8 weeks with no power or other luxuries of life. While I already considered myself fairly self sufficient, I learned a LOT about what I didn't know. I learned that there are literally DOZENS of things that should have been considered that so easily slips people's minds.

 

I learned what it means to constantly deal with meeting resource means. I learned what it means to defend what you have. I learned what it means to need to bond together with your neighbors and help those that can't help themselves.

 

I also vowed that I would never be in a position to have to make it up as I go again either.

 

So what if there are people that want to be prepared? How does them posting and asking questions affect YOUR life?

 

Is it more insane to spend some thought and effort to prepare for what I consider a reasonable risk in the future that may or may not occur? Or it is more insane to completely trust that there will never be a protracted loss of the infrastructure that is so ingrained in your life? If you say it will never happen, I'd say that your head is buried in the sand. IT DID happen. And it will happen again in the future. Period.

 

 

Consider this. I am an investment manager. On a daily basis, I speak to clients about investing for growth, and I also talk to them about diversification and hedging thier portfolios agains market risk. If it is so necessary to manage risk and prepare for uncertainty in the finacial markets, why then is it not reasonable to manage risk and prepare for life on a daily basis.

 

The only people that criticize preparing are those that have never had to live through the alternative.

 

 

All the best.

 

 

John

Edited February 8, 2007 by JWarren

[Bvamp 604]

well put, JWarren

 

one thing that i dont understand about people stocking up for a disaster is the water thing. get water purification tabs and a bottle of iodine. MUCH MUCH more handy to have a water boiling pot fuilled with those than the bottled equivalent of two truckloads of water. canned food I can see, its easy to get. dehydrated food is a better choice, in my opinion but is much more expensive and not something you can just buy in meal form at your local market. a bottle of that floor stripping potent vodka is also a good idea as an anesthetic. and you also will need to protect those things if the time does come.

 

things you dont normally think of, or even WANT to for that matter, but will have wished you did when or if the time does come.

 

like you said JWarren, a little prepardness for the future might be a hassle when you make up your mind to do it, but will pay for itself in the long run if you ever should have to need to call on it.

 

its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. like i said before, if that makes me paranoid, so be it. im ok with that.

 

considering the gun issue, well, from experience I know you can take nearly any animal in north america with a well placed 22lr round, and that 12 gauge buckshot will drop nearly any human being or dangerous animal in its tracks, I think the twenty bucks I spent on 22 shells that I will never break into and the 30 for the 25 rounds of 3" buckshot that goes untouched, along with the swiss army knife and iodine I keep with them is a fine investment in my future.