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well that gave me a good laugh. i dont laugh much anymore, so i gotta thank you for that too!

 

i bet bob is going to be surprised when he gets up tomorrow and reads the last day's worth of this thread, huh? :)

 

I know so much "useless" crap it isnt even funny, but you know what? just like what you said, you NEVER KNOW. it is so much better to be able to know that you KNEW better than to WISH you knew better.

 

but that is what our forum is about. plain people discussing things plainly.

 

and like i say so much and as our forefathers taught us -

 

E Pluribus Unem - from many, one.

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Some easy things to keep handy /find if SHTF. 5gallon buckets. They are air/water tight. Perfect for storing bulk food,water,ammo - whatever, AND also "sanitation".

Styrofoam-the best fire starter ever. I have used the pieces of styrofoam that I found on the beach to ignite a bonfire of wet driftwood many times.

A Zippo lighter and extra flints. Anything from WildTurkey to kerosine is fuel for one.

24 pack of house brand water in 12oz bottles. The empty bottles are as usefull as the water.

A camp hatchet-one with the handle and head one piece steel.

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well, considering that beer is the #1 seller before a hurricane in the state of florida, you arent far off. alcohol is a bad thing in a survival situation, for the most part. I only suggested a bottle of 190 proof vodka as a sterilising agent that you might enjoy another way on occasion. but not suggesting you buy a CASE of it.

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Hello

Here in Houston, the gun stores were hit by "smash 'n grab" burglars almost as soon as the power went down and the streets clogged. That means you not only have roving gangs of thugs bent on larceny, but armed (possibly WELL armed) thugs looking to try out the new loot. That's doubtlessly what we saw in "the chocolate city" when the National Guard tried to enter and help folks and they were repeatedly fired upon.

Point is, I'm not going to try to engage a firefight like that, and if I can blend into the background and not draw attention, that's what I'm gonna do.

However, if me or any one around me is singled out as a victim, I hope to have the means to come down hard and permanently.

 

I saw a number of rental box trucks roving my neighborhood that sped up noticeably when they spotted me with the tactical 870 slung (Didn't have the S12 yet). Looking back, though, I just as easily could have gotten dropped from a newly "acquired" AR from someone in the truck.

 

One thing I touched on earlier, and JWarren mentioned as well, is the symbiotic relationship between man and dog. I know my doggers would do their utmost to protect me and mine, and I would certainly do the same for them. I think they have tools to help us in those situations that we need to acknowledge, just like as they helped protect Mr. Warren's generators.

The bitch that stayed with me (my wife evacuated to her family in OK with my two older dogs) never left my side, although in normal times, she is not the best behaved of the three. There is no doubt in my mind that she sensed this was no bullshit serious business, and she was making it clear that she was going to do her part. She would raise up and bristle when a vehicle drove past the house, and normally, that is a frequent occurance, not one that would elicit such a response.

 

Another thing is a bicycle. The main streets were absolutely impassable. The state highway in front of my house was a "designated evac. route", so it was a parking lot. I could take note of a vehicle at night, and see it again at sunrise only a few blocks down the street.

My mountain bike was a damn useful tool in that mess. The motorbikes were too big to make much headway, but the Stumpjumper ruled!

Of course, this is a suburban/urban environment thing...And, of course, the KelTec .380 was in the small of back crossdraw position anytime I went out...

This was during the couple of days leading up to the "storm that never was" here in Houston.

 

-JWarren thanks so much for sharing your experiences and acquired knowledge with us. As I mentioned earlier, this was never on the radar screen for me, until the very real threat actually materialized. At that point I realized how much like the "roofies' I was, and I vowed to never be there again.

Due to this experience, (not some paranoid "vision"...) I have acquired the following:

 

100 gallons of gasoline, stored in 6 gallon plastic jugs capable of fueling vehicles if necessary. I have freestanding Rubbermaid storage sheds for 'em;

Fire extinguishers (good idea with gasoline storage....)

(2) 55 gallon Rubbermaid "Roughneck" garbage cans (new) scrubbed out w/ bleach and filled w/ clean water. Renewed every other month and sealed w/ duct tape.

12 KW generator

Window unit AC

Extension cords (Weathertight) and distribution cord.

(4) table and floor lights w/ flourescent bulbs (all of my home lighting is built-in, it occurred to me I could not plug my generator in to them..)

(4) propane tanks w/ camp stove and cookware (including coffeemaker, good point, JWarren!)

Pre-cut and fit window plywood w/ plenty of "plylock" tabs. They all have strategic viewing (OK, and shooting) ports cut into them.

Braces for my garage overhead doors.

Dogger harnesses, extra food, crates, water in truck and SUV.

Waterproof/fireproof safe w/cash, papers, spare keys, dog registrations and vaccination data, etc. that is small enough to grab and take-with if necessary.

And, of course, the required "shag-bag" of ammo, mag's, batteries, lights, water purification, waterfproof matches, respirators, camping stuff, etc. just in case holing up is not an option.

 

I'm certain there are things I've forgotten, but you get the point...When you are faced with not being able to obtain these items, you realize how valuable they are to you, and how foolish it is to wait until that point that you need them and can not obtain them. Not paranoia, not freakin' out, anything like that, just a reaction to a very real dilemna.

 

Respectfully posted,

Guido2 in Houston

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HOLY SHIT guys! Sorry but I just made it to the party here.

 

Lot's of good info ya'll. One can never be too prepared. Learned that in scouts and believe it.

I have lost my home to a hurricane here in NC and that is no party. I went for 9 days trying to save what was left with no power and saw the armed guards fending off irate customers and the CP&L equipment storage facility right across the creek from me. I saw the sorry ass arab bastards who run the local "convenience" stores jack up the price of bagged ice to take advantage of the poor people who were trying to save their suppiles (until a handful of us "good ol boyz" put a stop to that in a big way). I saw the national guard and men in black fatigues (DEA) brought in to evacuate my neighborhood from an expected upstream damburst, because all the local authorities were already stretched too thin. I saw gas prices elevated too. I saw looting and all kinds of other shit that happens after a few days of disorder on this scale. This was hurricane Fran who's eye passed right over my house BTW. I thought I was prepared but little did I know ..lol. I'm more prepared now... Something a buddy of mine said still comes to mind.

 

"It takes approx. three days for modern "civilization" to go back to caveman times".

 

One more thing to add about the meat in the freezer. We ate like kings too for the first week or so. The chest freezer and the well were #1 priority for the generator. I saw lots of others who weren't so lucky and lost lots and lots of stored meat that could have been eaten, just because they didn't know better. I'm referring to beef mainly. Chicken is a different story. With red meat you can let it go for a lot longer than most people realize. I have a good freind who is a butcher and has been for over 30 years. He said he suppies "choice" beef to some of the finest resturaunts in town. One resturaunt in particular, that all the locals look up to as having the most tender and great tasting steaks around, will not even take shipment unless there is a solid layer of MOLD on the suface of the meat. That's right...MOLD. What do you think "aged" beef is anyway?

 

2 cents

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I'm glad to see this thread is getting a positive spin.

It seems like people either get really cryptic or really macho when it comes to the subject of Readiness.

Seems to be some really good advice in this thread.

Thanks.

 

inparidel - ". . . think how every thought, action and statement will reflect on the future of arms ownership in this country."

 

Sound advice.

 

Juggernaut - "When there is no more room in Hell, the dead shall walk the earth."

 

 

That would explain the last three dates I've been on.

 

A|G

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to others it could be being stuck in something like Katrina, the Rodney King riots, or some other similar

 

Dudes, that is plenty serious enough. Whether the world ends is really not important. If you are dead, the world is over for you. Something as "mild" as what happened in LA or chocolate city is more than enough to put an end to anyone's world. Lots of people died during both of those events, a good portion at the hands of their fellow men.

 

What did it for me RKBA wise was seeing the koreans defending themselves with AK47s from the roofs of their houses and stores and not getting their neighborhoods looted. I now have an AK47 with a few thousand rounds of ammo, a few hundred of which are loaded in RPK mags and stored in a load bearing vest in the back of a closet just in case. When you're expecting a good chance of a gunfight, you want to have enough gun and enough ammo for it.

 

And if youre expecting infrastructure problems you better have non-perishable food, water, batteries and tools/supplies to perform repairs on your house in the event of damage (fire, wind, debris, flood, etc). My (battery powered) sawzall, my hammers and vinyl sheeting was very useful during the hurricanes a few years back.

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Powerlines will be down everywhere--and that will slow any movement you have. Its always dangerous and scary to check to see if a line is live-- but you may have to in order to travel. a long 2x4 and some bolt cutters will be a friend to you.

 

Please expound on this.

 

How do you check to see if a fallen powerline is dead?

 

Why can't they be driven over?

 

Tell me more about your "2x4 clear-a-matic".

 

What else would you add for powerline clearing if you had to do it all over again?

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Veriform,

 

Good questions. Honestly, I/we did not have any way to determine if the lines were hot or not that *I* felt completely comfortable with. We were fortunate (or unfortunate) enough that the destruction was so extensive that NO powerlines we encountered were hot in the aftermath.

 

Because I still wasn't just willing to take that on faith, I devised something to check them. I have no idea if it worked in reality since-- as I said-- none were hot. I kept a long slender metal pole with me. I'd plant one end on the ground and let go of it. The *idea* was that the pole, when it fell onto the line, would short circuit through the pole into the ground. This would give visible and audible indications that you really don't want to be messing with that line.

 

I would REALLY like to hear from others on this. I think my idea would have worked had it been tested, but I also think that if it can go wrong, it usually will. I'm probably lucky to be alive. LOL

 

 

Also, you bring up a good point about driving over them. Yep, we drove over hundreds on the ground. But the problem is that VERY often you encounter lines that are being semi-supported by trees or its own pole. These lines, while touching the ground in other places, may be hanging or stretched low. Often those are too high to drive over and too low to drive under.

 

Oh... I REALLY need to point this out. Anytime you cut a line that seems to have some type of pressure on it-- meaning if you can't make it move easily with your hand-- make SURE that other people and property are a good distance from where you will be cutting it.

 

The first day of the storm, we had to cut our own telephone cable to get it out of the way for the tractor coming it. I was standing near and probably wasn't paying attention. My Father-in-Law cut it while it was under pressure, and when it whipped back it caught me across the throat on my right side. I actually wondered for a second when it happened if I had just been killed. As it turns out, I got a nasty bruise and a long cut on my neck. But I lived, and LEARNED.

 

 

 

Regarding the 2X4 thing-o-matic. I have to give credit to my 1st cousin Michael for this one. He showed me the thing while out delivering some supplies. What he did was so simple. You start with a 2x4 plank long enough where if it were standing on about a 45 degree angle, your vehicle could clear it. Then, about 1/3 up the length of the 2X4 you drill a hold and bolt another on another 2x4, which is the length from your hole to the end you measured from. On the long side (opposite from where you bolted on the 2x4) you cut a V-shaped notch in the end of the plank.

 

Now you have all you need to quickly get past low hanging power lines (if they are not hot). You catch the line in the V-notch that you cut out, push the line up to the level you need in order to clear it, and then pull out the shorter 2x4 in order to make a "leg". It should be secure enough that it won't move as you are driving under it. Once you are clear, stop and recover your thing-o-matic.

 

 

I think the one thing I'd do differently regarding powerline clearning is have on hand a way to check for live lines that I had more confidence in. I gotta work on this-- after all-- it only takes being wrong once....

 

 

John

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on a sidenote, honey is a good thing to have:

 

- it gives a lot of energy

- it doesnt go bad, so you can stash it in big amounts (good honey forms a protective layer to seal itself off in case you store it for ages. there could be some dirt/mold etc on it, but you can scrape it off, and then heat the hard honey to prepare for consumption. a decade ago they found a stash of honey in some pharao's grave, after scraping off a layer and heating it to render it liquid, it was still edible according to the doctors. how neat is that?)

- you can use honey to disinfect wounds (ancient egyptians already knew that components of honey fight bacteria and infections if you smear it on. rather handy if you run out of normal healing supplies.)

- and it's tasty!

 

PS: this is all assuming you didn't buy some cheapskate's honey that was laced with sugar, water, etc to boost production.

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Sua,

 

Yep. My father uses it daily in his coffee. I've seen a lot of people post things about honey, but I've never had much to say on the topic. I'll explain -- and no-- I am serious LOL

 

A tradition in my family up until I was about 16 or 17 was beekeeping. While it was not a "business" per se for us, our family has always had between 50 to 75 hives of bees. Naturally, I was dad's free help with these. My primary job was helping in the spring and mid-summer "robbing" of the hives. I am hear to tell you-- in those little white suits, you are not completely protected! You don't get stung because they just aren't mad enough to do it yet. Over the years, I've probably been stung anywhere between 300 and 500 times. I HATE the little bastards!

 

Now, that isn't why I haven't mentioned honey before-- that was just for background. The reason is that I am one of the RARE people that is ALLERGIC to honey. The strange thing is that honey is one of the most hypo-allergenic substances on earth. It's also odd that I have NO other food allergies or any other allergies for that matter. It has baffled the specialists I've been to.

 

I guess I just don't have all that good of a relationship with bees. At least the little bitches die after they sting you.

 

 

John

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LMAO....I guess this must be my most successful thread to date! I'll try to address a couple of points, with out spoiling y'alls party.

 

Bvamp. We all hate our enemies bro. I just hope that you don't define your enemies by "anyone with brown skin" I would never judge you- just judging the words you post.

 

John. Well, I've never been in a natural disaster but I am a Marine combat veteran. I have confidence in my ability to adapt to any situation....perhaps this is why I'm so cavalier about disaster prep....hmm. Anyway, it sounds like you and yours survived Katrina OK despite your lack of the type of lengthy preparations you suggest. I believe everyone should have a couple weeks worth of food on hand, but when you go as far as suggesting people buy an off-road vehicle, well, It's just too much for my taste. I can, however, understand how such a harrowing experience would cause you to obsess about these matters.

 

Perhaps I'll check in again later and see how your party is going.

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I worked in South Central Los Angeles during the 92 riots and even though I was driving my old Jeep Cherokee Chief with a 401 and had a 9mm on the seat next to me with three extra mags I wasn't sure I was going to make it home that night. There were gangs of people hunting for people to kill all over the place. Thankfully I had plenty of gas and darkly tinted glass all around which is more valuable than you can imagine if you've never spent any time in the 'hood. I would have much rather had my Polytech AK with me than my Star 30m on that day. It was totally surreal to see my world fall into a state of anarchy. We made the decision to leave Los Angeles and accomplished our goal a couple of years later. Now half of L.A. lives up here in Washington and its got me thinking Idaho or Montana. The lesson I learned is that the best SHTF weapon is not being around when the SHTF. Still, I CCW everyday.

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Sua,

 

Yep. My father uses it daily in his coffee. I've seen a lot of people post things about honey, but I've never had much to say on the topic. I'll explain -- and no-- I am serious LOL

 

A tradition in my family up until I was about 16 or 17 was beekeeping. While it was not a "business" per se for us, our family has always had between 50 to 75 hives of bees. Naturally, I was dad's free help with these. My primary job was helping in the spring and mid-summer "robbing" of the hives. I am hear to tell you-- in those little white suits, you are not completely protected! You don't get stung because they just aren't mad enough to do it yet. Over the years, I've probably been stung anywhere between 300 and 500 times. I HATE the little bastards!

 

Now, that isn't why I haven't mentioned honey before-- that was just for background. The reason is that I am one of the RARE people that is ALLERGIC to honey. The strange thing is that honey is one of the most hypo-allergenic substances on earth. It's also odd that I have NO other food allergies or any other allergies for that matter. It has baffled the specialists I've been to.

 

I guess I just don't have all that good of a relationship with bees. At least the little bitches die after they sting you.

 

 

John

 

 

Wow that's different. Eating local honey helps many people develop resistance to allergies to the local fauna. My wife has allergy problems and her allergy doctor has recommended that she it local honey regularly.

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Bob,

 

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this matter. For the record, I do agree with some of your points.

 

I have never suggested that hording tons of firearms and ammunition will save you from natural disasters. And I have never suggested expending your financial assets to a point that you are financially crippled on this. Hell, I own an investment management firm and have been a stockbroker for 15 years! LOL. I assure you that investing is a HUGE part of my life. I also never suggested someone go out and buy anything. I repeatedly said that others will have different experiences and ability to obtain equipment. Do you honestly think that I am suggesting that someone living in a condo go out and buy a 4 wheeler and an tractor? I said that WE couldn't have cut out without the tractor, not someone that lives on the corner of Main St. and 5th Ave.

 

I CAN comment on heavier equipment because in my reality, EVERYONE has a 4-wheeler, and essentally everyone has some relative or friend that has a tractor. That makes it easy. Look, I am not so nieve that I don't understand how there are varying ways of living. Since I graduated college, I've lived in New Orleans, Houston, New York City, Orlando, FL and now back home in MS. I know damn well that you aren't going to park a tractor in Manhatten.

 

Where I disagee with you is that you're original post is based on your own experiences, or lack there of, in dealing with a disaster such as this. You are basing your judgement of others' concerns over preparation on your own geographical situation and did so in a rather "blanket" generalized manner. We all aren't living where you are. I've been through a number of hurricanes where I live and I will live through more. It is foolishness to not be in a position to be ready. Katrina wasn't a one shot deal... look at the history of distruction Hurricanes have racked up. Maybe they won't hit OK, but neither will I be living there.

 

I also disagree with you how well being a combat veteran will prepare you. Its a different skill-set. Sure, you went through basic. Sure you may have been through survivial training, marksmanship, etc., etc. I'm going to wager that they didn't teach you to use a lot of other things that you would need. Thinking that all you ever need to know was taught to you in the military will probably only insure you are the first to cut your own foot off when a chainsaw kicks back on you. Tradesmen, like BVamp, have a LOT more advice to offer than your drill sargent.

 

I'll also have to agree to disagree about being obsessed. I may sound obsessed, but what it really is constitutes urgency. I did not think I'd ever move back to MS. I have lived in major metropolotian cities for all of my adult life. Now that I am back and have a home, a wife, and two spoiled Jack Russell Terriers, it is my responsibility to play catch-up and make sure I have the equipment and know-how that most others around here developed over the years that I was away learning other things. (I know how to surf and SCUBA dive :) ) The point is that once I can get to a position where I feel comfortable with the preparations I've made, I can relax and spend the energy I have devoted to this on other things. But that, in no way, suggests that I don't juggle a LOT of other important issues that are non-SHTF related.

 

 

I'll leave this post with an interesting comment. I alluded to other places I've lived. When I think about it, it is ODD how I've missed some other disasters. I used to work in the World Trade Center. I was on the 77th floor of Tower Two. Now a few years before 9/11, I moved to FL. However, I was in that tower for training 4 weeks before it was hit. Skip ahead a few years and I live through Katrina. I've been closely or loosely related to too much NOT to think about it.

 

 

 

-- John

 

 

 

EDIT: I also wanted to point out one other thing. I saw people DIE for what they didn't know. A young mother in Angie, LA (which is about 5 miles from my home) had her young baby DIE from dehydration due to the heat. She was giving it fluids but she couldn't fast enough. Sure, I could have told her the dangers of not getting enough fluids, but I wasn't there. People DIE sometimes due to what they DON'T know.

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DaGroaner,

 

I know! That is what I find to be so odd. Originally, we thought that it was some pollen in this geographic area that I must be allergic to. However, we've experimented with honies from other regions such as Orange honey from FL. Every honey I've tried has caused my throat to start to close up after a few drops. I can even tell you if Honey Mustard in resturants is home-made or store-bought. Store honey mustard has so little in it that I can eat it.

 

The basic consensus is that I must be allergic to some enzyme within the bees that is part of producing the honey.

 

John

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DaGroaner,

 

I know! That is what I find to be so odd. Originally, we thought that it was some pollen in this geographic area that I must be allergic to. However, we've experimented with honies from other regions such as Orange honey from FL. Every honey I've tried has caused my throat to start to close up after a few drops. I can even tell you if Honey Mustard in resturants is home-made or store-bought. Store honey mustard has so little in it that I can eat it.

 

The basic consensus is that I must be allergic to some enzyme within the bees that is part of producing the honey.

 

John

 

 

Well I hope you don't develop anymore allergies. My wife has to take multiple daily injections for her allergies. We keep a one month supply in case the SHTF. :angel:

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Good move,

 

I hope I don't either. I never had any real allergies to speak of.... over the last few years I find I get allergies during the blooming season of certain plants (I guess). But that is just an annoyance, not life or death.

 

My little nephew, Harrison, is basically allergic to nature itself. My sister has to carry an epi-pen with her everywhere they go. I probably ought to add one or two of those to my First Aid Bag in my Jeep.... hmmm...

 

 

John

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JWarren,I'm inclined to think your metal pole line tester would work just fine.I had a friend who accidentally tangled with a live wire while his crew was attempting to clear a tree that had been hit by lightning.The branches were hung up on the surrounding trees and while cutting away at it they inadvertently knocked a line down.It fell and hit the 6' long pry bar he was holding,burning a hole through the palm of his hand and out through his ankle.To make a long story short,the effect was plainly visible.

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Good move,

 

I hope I don't either. I never had any real allergies to speak of.... over the last few years I find I get allergies during the blooming season of certain plants (I guess). But that is just an annoyance, not life or death.

 

My little nephew, Harrison, is basically allergic to nature itself. My sister has to carry an epi-pen with her everywhere they go. I probably ought to add one or two of those to my First Aid Bag in my Jeep.... hmmm...

 

 

John

 

We have those too as a single bee sting could kill my wife. When a bee occasionally gets into my house I used to move them outside, now they're dead meat.

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Great thread, guys. To check power lines you may be able to use a florescent tube. If it was me, I wouldn't mess with them. If you must, I would get away from the end of the cable and hold one end of the tube while getting the other end close to the line(maybe a foot or two away), but NOT touching it. The typical power line that runs along a residential street is 7200 volts and will probably be enough to light up the tube. One should be VERY careful though. The typical power line, will likely deliver 720,000 watts of power. To put that into perspective, the typical 120v circuit in your home is capable of delivering only 1800 watts. Your method of testing, really any method, is very dangerous. It is possible for the power to arc far enough off of the line to reach you and kill you. If the line was "hot" and you shorted it out with a pipe, it might create a pretty powerful explosion, splatter you with bits of molten metal and may permanently damage your eyesight and hearing. Don't do that. Also, remember that almost all power lines have no coating to protest you from being shocked. That being said, most live downed power lines will be arcing when you come up to them. BTW, make sure the 2x4 you use to move the line is dry.

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Thanks for the in-put on the lines.

 

I am in agreement that the absolute best move is to leave them alone. What I am talking about is the situation where leaving them alone isn't an option. I'll never forget the fear that was in my mind every single time I had to deal with a power line. Even though every one we encountered was dead, there was always that lingering thought that I was about to electrocute myself.

 

If anything, I hope that illustrates how you can be in a situation where you have no choice but to deal with a powerline on occasion. I assure you, if there was ANY way to go around or otherwise avoid every single line I encountered, I would have.

 

I know that a lot of what I/we had to do wasn't safe and again, that illustrates the ugly situation we were in. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't. Dealing with a line is never a good idea-- but not dealing with one was simply not an option we could entertain.

 

John

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Oh... I REALLY need to point this out. Anytime you cut a line that seems to have some type of pressure on it-- meaning if you can't make it move easily with your hand-- make SURE that other people and property are a good distance from where you will be cutting it.

 

This is a very good point. A solution is to put a jacket or blanket or even better a sandbag on the line before cutting.

 

If I remember correctly Bob is a former Recon man. I can attest to the training here, everyday on Earth is a potential disaster. I bet he'd do fine nothing more than a pen knife. OOOOOORAH!

 

Great thread. John, yer experience and sharing has been priceless, thank you.

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