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JWarren,

 

I would love to know what specific things you have learned from the Katrina experience, and I'm sure many others here would like to know about it as well.

 

When did things start getting crazy? What types of things were you able to stock up on at the last minute? What did you manage to survive on during those several weeks? I'm just full of questions as I'd really like to learn from your experiences...

 

So what did a typical day consist of? Would you mind being specific about any self-defense situations that arose?

 

What would you have done (and hopefully are doing) differently for next time around?

What kinds of things would you recommend that would otherwise slip my mind?

 

Feel free to PM me with whatever you feel like sharing, or better yet post it on the forums so that all of us can benefit from your actual experiences.

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No comment pro or con. . .I'll let your intelligence, or the lack thereof help you decide. . .again, no particular thread, and no particular statement or viewpoint has been targeted. My shooting club was selected by the BBC, arguably the world's largest news gathering organization, for an "in depth interview about US second amendment people. . ." Waco, type psychos, or just family and law loving and abiding people in support of the Second Amendment. As it turned out, they decided not to do the piece at the last minute.

 

My point. . . think how every thought, action and statement will reflect on the future of arms ownership in this country. Nothing else to say. . . .

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John, I too would be interested in what you did to survive that time.

 

After Isabell came through and really tore up NC and VA well tell you what I did I had plenty of supplies, friends, and a Church, we worked clearing roads, then I heard on the radio that my Church was a distribution point for water and ice, I also knew that there was about 5 elderly ladies their and no one else so I put my chain saw in the truck and went up there and helped pass out water and Ice to every one who came by. Also organzed the traffic pattern for efficientcy. We banded together and worked as a team for our community. It was hard work but really a great time. I did have my 1911 in my car but it stayed there for the week the power was out. Also we had a guy with a truck and a genorator who would drive to peoples houses and hook up to there refrigerator once a day and stay for about 30 to 45 minutes that and the ice kept the food cold.

 

People in rural North Carolina are pretty well behaved, and armed.

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Thanks for the replies guys... I hope it may help someone.

 

I wanted to grab Tony's comment real fast before I close up the office and go home.

 

Newp.... I think I had a total of 100 rounds of 7.62x 39, a couple AK magazines, about 50 rounds of 9mm, and 2 Glock magazines.

 

I personally think that if you are preparing for something like Katrina, we spend entirely too much of our resources on our firearms. Now, if you are stockpiling for possible firearms bans, that is another story. And if you just like to collect, that's fine, too. But really, as you said--- 40 magazines and 10,000 rounds of ammunition isn't going help.

 

Really preparing means buying a lot of less-cool things like baby wipes LMAO

 

Thanks for pointing that out Tony!

 

 

John

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I saw what happened after Anrew in south FL. There are a number of small cities between Miami area and the Everglades. Since all the trees and poles were blown down over the road it was impossible to get a vehicle out there. Water had to be flown in to them. Looters came out of the city and started taking everything right in front of the homeowners. Some homeowners had guns but of lot didnt. When they walked into town and tried to buy a gun they found out theres a five day "cooling off" period before they could get one. Lesson learned: unintended consequencences. Power took a long time to come back on, weeks sometimes. People were known to have beaten each other over a bag of ice. Theres another problem to consider: ecomnomic breakdown. I read a story about a guy in SA that had the countries economy go down. It was a real SHTF situation that could happen here. It took about 2 years to get better.

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I saw what happened after Anrew in south FL. There are a number of small cities between Miami area and the Everglades. Since all the trees and poles were blown down over the road it was impossible to get a vehicle out there. Water had to be flown in to them. Looters came out of the city and started taking everything right in front of the homeowners. Some homeowners had guns but of lot didnt. When they walked into town and tried to buy a gun they found out theres a five day "cooling off" period before they could get one. Lesson learned: unintended consequencences. Power took a long time to come back on, weeks sometimes. People were known to have beaten each other over a bag of ice. Theres another problem to consider: ecomnomic breakdown. I read a story about a guy in SA that had the countries economy go down. It was a real SHTF situation that could happen here. It took about 2 years to get better.

Dang it was noting like that here

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Katrina was interesting . instead of water , we got flooded with about 300,000 free range urbanites . My daughter was with me at the store when it the storm hit and lights went out [lasted about 4 days] We lived in the shop . I got to say "HI" to a few fairly fascinating specimens of humanity .

a few things from that month come to mind . most folks are worthless outside their normal enviroment , if you think your neighbors going to be handy 'cuase he's capable of mowing his own yard , good luck with that . you don't have enough cash,water,coffee on hand . Booze is great after it's over , not that useful if you're having to pull "watch-watch" duty on your property. you can get shot over a place in line at the gaspump . I didn't fire over a dozen rounds during the 3 week "bad" period [good way to puctuate a declarative sentance] , on the other hand , I sold aprox 10,000 rnds , 90% to National Guard units and L.E. . SO if you think they're standing by to save your ass from the "nuttin , jes walkin" fella's , once again , good luck with that.

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Thanks.

 

RedJacket saw a lot more of the "dangerous element" than I did. I went to Baton Rouge about once a week (sometimes twice) for various supplies. BR was the closest place we could get anything.

 

I saw the cluster f#@$ RedJacket had to live with. It was chaos everywhere I went in BR. New Olreans basically puked up a large amount of its popluation into BR.

 

By the way... the guys in my post that were coming up in my blindspot when I was getting fuel happened in a Baton Rouge Wal-mart parking lot.

 

 

John

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Ironhead,

 

Before I moved back home, I lived in Orlando, FL. At one time or the other I dated a girl whose family and her were in Miami for Andrew. She told me a lot of stories that sound exactly like what you described. Not a good time....

 

 

 

John

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Thanks John,

 

That is exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

Since you are familiar with Florida, is there anything you would recommend/not recommend, in addition to what you have already stated, to a Floridian in that general area? St. Petersburg/Tampa Bay specifically. I mean, considering being on a penninsula, connected to yet another penninsula (FL itself). Some kind of floating vessel, boat, canoe, etc? Fishing gear? Or possibly something else I could not even imagine.

 

Thanks again for the great post/collaboration!

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Hell, I know I'm old, but didn't mean to sound stupid....DUH. If the shit hits the fan, most will just bend over and kiss their sweet ass good bye. JWARREN, right after Katrina, my wife and I loaded my dually to the gills with anything and everything we could cram in the bed and back seats, took it to Laurel, Ms. to help the employees of one of our customers. You are right, there was not ONE DAMN SOUL hepling these people, they where doing the best they could to help theirselves. One thing that got to me was seeing an older colored man trying to saw a tree off of his house with a fricking hand saw, and this tree was about 5ft around. When we pulled up at our customers place, after 12 hours of driving, dodging trees and limbs, and sometimes dragging them out of the way, those people treated us like we where family and had known us all their lives, and then asked if we had seen any fema people or troops. It was a crying shame that none where to be seen, even for 2 weeks after we left. That's why I have 2 5kw gens and 1 10kw, and getting all converted to propane, with 2 250 gallon tanks in the back yard and buy canned foods by the case, and dried stuff is vacuum sealed for storage, or used for eatting as needed, and replenished as used. Ammo is good, but I have a hard time digesting all the lead and brass, it's just not really filling, unless I'm using it to fill some thiefs ass.

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Here is something to consider.

 

The terrorist hate America the most. Yet they have done absolutely nothing here since 911.

 

Do you think that they can"t? They hit Britain, Spain and many other countries but not the U.S.

 

They could easily cause all kinds of trouble here but they haven't.

 

My guess as to the reason why they haven't is that they are saving the big one for us.

 

We will probably lose a couple of our major cities when they do.

 

Don't expect that people here will keep there heads when it happens.

 

It is not a question of if it will happen but when.

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Here is something to consider.

 

The terrorist hate America the most. Yet they have done absolutely nothing here since 911.

 

Do you think that they can"t? They hit Britain, Spain and many other countries but not the U.S.

 

They could easily cause all kinds of trouble here but they haven't.

 

My guess as to the reason why they haven't is that they are saving the big one for us.

 

We will probably lose a couple of our major cities when they do.

 

Don't expect that people here will keep there heads when it happens.

 

It is not a question of if it will happen but when.

 

 

Nuclear bomb or some other dirty bomb.

 

If not by terrorists, then by one of our 'enemy' countries. I would consider this the ultimate SHTF moment, and things will just get worse by the day. WW3 anyone?

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Here is something to consider.

 

The terrorist hate America the most. Yet they have done absolutely nothing here since 911.

 

Do you think that they can"t? They hit Britain, Spain and many other countries but not the U.S.

 

They could easily cause all kinds of trouble here but they haven't.

 

My guess as to the reason why they haven't is that they are saving the big one for us.

 

We will probably lose a couple of our major cities when they do.

 

Don't expect that people here will keep there heads when it happens.

 

It is not a question of if it will happen but when.

 

 

Nuclear bomb or some other dirty bomb.

 

If not by terrorists, then by one of our 'enemy' countries. I would consider this the ultimate SHTF moment, and things will just get worse by the day. WW3 anyone?

 

 

When it happens, we will have no clue who was responsible for it.

 

I can't even imagine how our government, or whats left of it, will even respond.

 

How would we retaliate and against who?

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termite,

 

It sounds like you know exactly what I am talking about. My office isn't all that far from Laurel, MS (it's in Columbia, MS). Thank you and your wife for coming down. I came across a number of great people who showed such greatness of spirit and heart. I wish I'd have met you as well.

 

 

Hellgrun,

 

You've brought up a couple of good points. I'm going to have to give some thought to the question you asked about living in FL, and welcome anyone else's thoughts (as always!) as well.

 

Your situation is really not so much as being on the pennesula of FL, or even in Tampa/St. Pete area. Its a situation of being in an urban environment verses rural. I don't know what type of living arrangement you have, but it is unlikely in any case that you'd have access to the farm-type equipment that I was fortunate enough to have. Plus, storage of equipment may be an issue.

 

On the positive side, you can probably expect to get an outside emergency response a lot faster than we did.

 

Because I didn't go through a urban situation, I will be forced to do some theoretical thinking on this. The best advice I could think of off the top of my head is talk to a lot of people who made it through Hurricane Andrew in Miami. Also look for some accounts and photos on the web. A category 4 or 5 hitting you even traveling across Florida is going to look a lot like the aftermath of Andrew for you, I am sad to say.

 

Obviously, you are going to have incredibly high winds where you live. I was about 2/3 as far away from the Gulf of Mexico as Florida is across-- yet we registered a number of wind gusts in excess of 180 mph on a home weather station. And I suspect that our pine forests did more to slow the storm than anything between you and the Atlantic. Therefore, you can expect sever straight-line wind damage. Powerlines will be down everywhere--and that will slow any movement you have. Its always dangerous and scary to check to see if a line is live-- but you may have to in order to travel. a long 2x4 and some bolt cutters will be a friend to you.

 

I was a Condo dweller in FL, so I am inclined to put myself mentally in that sort of position when I consider an urban environment. Your immediate needs will be food, water, light, the ability to cover a damaged roof or damaged window/door. A generator is going to be a difficult option for you, but it IS doable (maybe putting it on a balconey or in an enclosed back yard.) I'd highly recommend trying to make a generator option work for you. If for no other reason, you will WANT to run a small emergency air-conditioner in a room in your home. Obviously, you could probably get away with a smaller generator if you were in a condo/apt situation. That may be able to be stored in a closet.

 

For water, you will definately want to fill your tube immediately. If possible, you need to get a drum or multiple water containers. You will never have ENOUGH water.

 

Everyone says have 3 days of food/water ready. Even if I were in a city, I would still go for a mininum of 5-7 days. It took 5 days to get supplies to many in New Orleans.

 

If you are running something like a generator, you are painting a big target on yourself. Defense and securing your place is going to be pretty important to you. Get a BIG chain and a bigger lock to secure your generator to the house.

 

Make sure you have the obvious things: lights, radio, batteries, etc.

 

 

Regarding the boat/fishing gear-- it probably depends on what you are preparing for. It kinda goes in the same category as hunting gear for me. That would be necessary if we're talking about a global meltdown, but probably not in a natural disaster.

 

 

Now, if you are in a house as opposed to a condo/apt, I'd go with as much as I could that was listed on that primer (with the exception of the tractor--- you'll get funny looks from the neighbors) You just may not need near as much in quantities. Even a chainsaw would be nice if a tree is on your roof.

 

 

I'll try to think more about this and see what I can come up with. I'd LOVE to hear from more urban dwellers as to their thoughts on this. Fresh perspective are always helpful to us all.

 

 

All the best!

 

John

 

 

 

PS: just thougth of something:

 

 

A couple posts mentioned some type of dirty bomb attack. Obviously, where I live, a NBC terror attack is a LOW possibility. In many of our urban environments, it isn't all that unfeasible. Many experts feel that any future terror attack will not be in a first-tier city like NYC, LA, or DC. Rather they feel it will come in a second-tier city where the security is more lax, and where it would make us feel that they may strike ANYWHERE. Tampa/St. Pete would be a good example of that type of city.

 

Now that said...

 

While I personally have little need for protection from NBC situations, it is odd for me to say that my wife does. Not long before she and I started dating, she was at work at her pre-school classroom. The chemical plant, which is the primary employer in the city she works in had an accident. The entire city of approximately 60,000 was shrouded in a green chemical haze. People were told to evacuate, and those that couldn't were told to remain indoors.

 

The schools were let out and Jennifer tried to get home but it was practically impossible due to the panicked drivers and disorganized panicking police personnel. Eventually she was able to get home and they had to remain indoors for 3 days.

 

A lot of people were harmed in the chemical spill and have respiratory issues (the law suits are still going on-- you can follow them by looking up Bogalusa Gaylord chemical spill in the Daily New archives) Fortunately, Jennifer wasn't harmed.

 

Because of the lack-luster safety record of the plant (and my father-in-law is retired from it), I have little confidence that this event will not occur again in the future. It's probably a VERY good idea for me to have a respirator in Jenn's car for such a possibility. If I lived in a possible target city, it would also be something I'd want to have. Just something to think about. It's probably a good idea to be aware of what manufacturing and industrial plants are near your home and near your transit route to and from work.

 

 

John

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all they need to do is burn all the gas stations and there will be a major problem here. why go through all the trouble of all that stuff when you can literally shut the whole region down in a matter of a couple of hours?

 

 

anyway, back to the intelligent half of this discussion (not like im one to talk).

 

of course, I do have a few things to add. maybe you will see the logic in them like I have.

 

IODINE. yeh, it isnt good for you, but you arent going to use it forever. it kills ANYTHING in water, and you can use it for cuts and other bleeding injuries. its a good thing, trust me. ive drank nasty scum infested swamp water an hour after 5 drops of iodine in canteens while lost in maine before and not gotten ill. and we all remember having it put on cuts when we were kids.

 

rechargeable circular saw. this is THE #1 tool in any good carpenter's box to begin with. you can do anything with it. you can build an entire house or boat with one, and in fact HAVE to use it for certain things. especially if you are into the framework of your house, literally. the chargers wont put a huge drain on your generator, either. another tool you forgot to mention is a good hatchet or axe. you can use it for so many things, it isnt funny. ive used one as a pulley of all things, to pull a log out of a gulley by hand in the dead of winter scrounging firewood. thats a pretty extreme example, but you will use it for a lot more things than you realise.

 

there are flashlights now that use an LED and you shake to charge them up for a few minutes or more. VERY handy, no batteries to be used that you need for other things like a radio.

 

fuel is lighter than water. if you keep cans and tanks of fuel, you MUST chain it down if you expect flooding, or it will walk off during the flood, or someone will float your 250 gallon tank away down the street. further, to distinguish your 2 stroke fuel from gasoline, it is a good idea to drop one or two LARGE nuts in the can. this helps mix the fuel as well as identifies the oiled gas cans. all tree guys I know do this, and I always have as well in my career of heating my home with wood my entire life. you will kill your car or blow your piston in your saw if you get the cans mixed up, and that is so damn simple, permanent, and cost effective, its hard to argue my logic, and so far, noone has.

 

salt. you can salt meat to make it keep in normal air. you can also cure your meat like jerky, even in high heat. cold is better, but I have done it in the middle of summer as well. it is also a HUGE HUGE necessity to HAVE salt when you have large amounts of physical exertion and sweat and drinking of mass quantities of water to stay hydrated. you might be hydrated, but you can go into shock when your body goes low on salt. in your situation JWarren, salt is a good thing to put in ALL the meals, which as you said was the grandmother's job. rememer also, if you have meat that will go bad, you can SMOKE it under a lean-to of green branches, and it will litereally keep for a month.

 

related to the salt thing, spices and spicy spices. you can take a bad taste out of food that is still edible with them. period. (the kids might actually eat it)

 

if you buy a vehicle considering events like katrina - look to our special forces and cia's example in afghanistan. they drive toyota tundras and nissans. I think they know what they are talking about on that one. if you are at that level of expertise or clearance or whatever in the military that you choose your own equipment, and you choose that particular item, I think there MIGHT JUST be a reason. as a contractor, the jeeps are a pain in my ass. one of my old bosses had one and hated it. he always had problems bringing things we needed with it, where somehitng in his case, a blaser or pickup with a king cab would have been the ticket. I will always drive a pickup truck, myself. vans just dont cut it either, unless you only haul things that need locking up.

 

road flares. not just because you can signal trouble to your neighbors or passers by, but you can literally light anything on fire with one sprinkled with ordinary rust. ive personally burned a hole in concrete before like this. basically road flare and powdered rust is thermite. after a flood and torrential rain, i HAVE to think starting a fire if it is cold or someone needs heat NOW due to hypothermia that this is a good ability to have. you WILL be able to light green wood with this method. (rust from steel is really just solid oxygen). i really wished I had a signal flare the night me and my friend almost froze to death in the catskills in the middle of winter. it was so cold a match wouldnt light, and the wood was all frozen solid, so no fire. if you dont have a flare and cant get a fire started, go to the nearest pine tree and pick up as many pine cones as you can find and light those. Ive started many fires in all weather with them and a bic. (no there were no pine cones the night I mentioned because we were on a foot of ice that night)

 

about your game gun. the 22lr? buy SOLID NOSE BULLETS. if you are stuck shooting bunnies, a hollow point will ruin the meat, and in the case of whitetail, might not kill it, but just blind it instead. CCI stinger comes to mind, but I hardly ever see them in stores that ARENT hollow points. 22 shorts are a good idea for small game as well, but is a luxury. further if you fire a 22short out of a building or vehicle, it will not alert other game from the noise, and you will be able to take all three bunnies because of that. a brick of cheap high velocity 22 solid nose bullets is the way to go.

 

and last but not least, one more thing I know from experience. your division of labor is also a sanity issue, as you said JW with your elderly especially. it also will keep chidren occupied at times, but it WILL keep the saniity there to have a routine for everybody to follow.

 

 

I could give you some more ideas, like a bike on a block with a 12 volt alernator hooked to it, but they are more of what you can come up with sort of things on the spot, and really not applicable to what the discussion is about, I dont think.

 

I hope maybe you might see some of the logic in my advice, as almost all of it I take myself and have learned most of it practically or the hard way. youve taught me a few things I didnt know, so I thought I would share some of what I know so that maybe I can help you in the same way that you just helped me.

 

 

very good writeup. thanks.

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Here is something to consider.

 

The terrorist hate America the most. Yet they have done absolutely nothing here since 911.

 

Do you think that they can"t? They hit Britain, Spain and many other countries but not the U.S.

 

They could easily cause all kinds of trouble here but they haven't.

 

My guess as to the reason why they haven't is that they are saving the big one for us.

 

We will probably lose a couple of our major cities when they do.

 

Don't expect that people here will keep there heads when it happens.

 

It is not a question of if it will happen but when.

 

 

Nuclear bomb or some other dirty bomb.

 

If not by terrorists, then by one of our 'enemy' countries. I would consider this the ultimate SHTF moment, and things will just get worse by the day. WW3 anyone?

 

 

When it happens, we will have no clue who was responsible for it.

 

I can't even imagine how our government, or whats left of it, will even respond.

 

How would we retaliate and against who?

 

 

I'll take a long-shot and say that the government will attack anyone it wants to when that happens. Seriously, if you think 9/11 led to a brash response, just wait till there is 10 times the amount of deaths then 9/11, instantly, plus massive destruction and radiation. The backlash by the US would be severe, but to whom it is delivered to does not matter. Everyone will join in on the fun soon after. That would be the point where I would curl up in a ball and just listen to some good tunes for my final minutes...

 

 

John, once again I appreciate your advice. I will disect your info and get back to you on that. You can bet I'm gonna start putting those things into practice soon... very soon.

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BVamp,

 

See? Now that is exactly the kind of things I had to learn from older, wiser, and more experienced people on the fly during Katrina.

 

I learned REAL fast how ignorant I was on a WHOLE lot of things during that time, and I was VERY fortuate to have some good folks like you around that didn't mind teaching the "young'un" a few things as long as he was respectful.

 

Great advice and tips. I hope everyone is paying attention :)

 

 

John

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im 34. I listen well, and can solve problems without thinking. im a young un too. probably younger than you, id wager.

 

like i said, thanks for the story and the solutions. there were several things like i said that I had no idea about. I am positive the other members of this forum can contribute things they know first hand as well. Im glad that you understand what im suggesting and understand that Im saying it because it is real good stuff to know. and for the record, you could be belligerant about it, ill still be dropping the nuts in your 2 stroke can and i will still be salting the meat you were about to toss out regardless of what you say because i know better. it is a good thing to listen and learn, regardless of what part of life that it relates to. this is probably one of the best lines of logic one can learn in thier lifetime, if you ask me. it makes things SO MUCH easier in the long run.

 

 

and about the attack part of this discussion? I have not kept my eyes off the enemy in my area since about 1998. ive had a direct hand in getting some deported, as well as putting some out of business here. ....i was warning people about a 9/11 for YEARS. people actually came up to me and apologised for calling me paranoid after that happened. id tell you what would happen if they pulled shit like that, but I wouldnt want to spoil my surprise. people WONT take it, is all Im saying, and im not the only one. we will "get rid" of them. that is why we call them all "the enemy". this is why the war "over there in the sandbox" is good. they can go fight us on thier own ground and they can try to kill us all over THERE. keep it OVER THERE. if we arent OVER THERE, they WILL COME HERE. this is why i will fight with my own friends about the war. it needs to happen. nobody is supposed to LIKE war, its just that it has to be. its as simple as that.

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Yep, I've got a year on ya. I still stand by my wiser and experieced comments though. :) I've spent more time than not over the last 15 years behind a desk looking at a square screen ... ugh. When I say I hope everyone is paying attention I mean it-- you, me, and everyone else included. Everyone can pick up something from collaberating and talking some things through. I know I can. And perhaps it can help someone from doing something rather stupid and hurt themselves. I've come close, but still have all 10 fingers and toes and both testicles (at least I did the last time my wife took them out of her purse and let me look at them.)

 

 

Its ironic (or perhaps a show of our stubborness) that a decent dicussion of preparedness grew on a thread starting with WTF!

 

:)

 

 

John

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