Jump to content

"SHTF" = WTF


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 191
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I know you would need good aim and a tight pattern, but do you think a round of 12ga buckshot or other size pellet would cut through a power line? Then you could do it from a safe distance.

 

I would think that would be a bad idea, especially if you are in a rural area. That's just one more line they will have to fix before the power comes back online. You could have easily just cost yourself or someone else another week without power.

Link to post
Share on other sites

power lines are hardened steel cable. so no, 12gauge buckshot wont cut it. neither will a 12G slug.

 

one other thing that might be handy, (at any time), is crazy glue, or model airplane glue/cyanacrylate. what hardens crazy glue is water. SO, if you have an open gushing wound (and dont get any in the artery/bloodstream), and put some on the wound, it fuzes it shut almost instantly. I have a farmer friend here that actually used it once after a close encounter with farm equipment, and didnt even go to the hospital afterwards because it worked so good. I hear the hospitals and ambulances now use it and charge some outrageous price for use of it when its 5 bucks for a tiny bottle of it. go figure. then again, its 500 bucks or more to ride the ambulance to the hospital, so 100 for a drip of crazy glue isnt that bad if you think about it.

 

another thing occured to me for water consumption. when I hike or camp, I will often open the top of canned food, and set it upright in a pot of boiling water. you can heat plenty of cans of food this way, and still have water left to either clean up with or drink if you need to. you waste zero water. especially helpful if you have to pack your water on your back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crow, oorah back at ya, brother.

 

No offense John, but you really have no idea about my training. The "drill sargent" comment gave that away. LOL @ cutting my foot off...I used to live in Oregon, felled, bucked and split 10-12 cords per year to heat the house. Since you mention tradesmen, I'll mention that I am a (former) journeyman carpenter and ASE certified Master Technician. You sound like you have your shit together, John...and these are very personal choices we're talking about. I doubt if most other "survivalists" have feathered their nests as well as you have.

 

In clarification to the rest of y'all, I want to point out that statements such as "better to have and not want", or references to the Ant & Grasshopper fable are way off base. I am a HUGE proponent of preparation for the future....what we are arguing about is this- what is the appropriate way to prepare? Personally, I will be preparing for the "most-likely" rather than the "worst-case" scenario. I will be sitting on a huge pile of cash when I retire, not cases of ammo, MRE's, and cans of water.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the best way to prepare?

 

Well without going too much into my background (Force Recon), or listing a resume for others to pick apart because it doesn't meet "their" criteria, I would say that the original argument is NO different than the original alternative.

 

That is, it discussed something along the lines of "hedging their bets" for financial future investments. Just as it was stated that a "financial" advisor would make suggestions, so too will the prudent survivalist advisor.

 

"I will be sitting on a huge pile of cash when I retire, not cases of ammo, MRE's, and cans of water."

I say....hedge your bet. You have absolutely no security or proof that the pile of cash will be worth much trading to me in an "extreme SHTF" scenario.

 

 

All I would say is that both sides of the equation are correct and incorrect at the same time. In this day and age I would say that investing in both sides of the coin is my best advice. Just as a person can say I will never need my MRE, I can say the same about their money.

 

It takes MONEY to buy all this SHTF stuff..........but it takes that SHTF stuff to protect that money and "other" luxury investments as well. In the end, they compliment each other if its a balanced fund -because NO ONE can guarantee one extreme or certainty.

 

 

Final thoughts:

You can "invest" in life any way you choose....but as the REAL saying goes: "Your mileage may vary". Whether its a spare gas can or another "gas cylinder" item...that's up to you. In 30 years you can look up this on the web and laugh at it....then again, you might not be able to read it after tomorrow ever again.

 

 

~S

Edited by whatmanual
Link to post
Share on other sites

An event such as a Cat 5 hurricane in my mind really is not a SHTF situation. I am sure that anyone who experiences one may disagree but people in the middle of one still know that it is just a matter of time (maybe 3 days maybe 3 weeks) before help will come. The cleanup may take a while but you also know that in the other 99% of the country life goes on as usual.

 

Because of this your cash is still worth something. If you have enough food for a week or two that will not spoil and if you have the ability to protect it and your family for this short time, you will survive.

 

The most important thing to learn from one of these events is that many people still panic and turn into animals within a very short period of time.

 

To me a real SHTF situation is one where most of the country is in the same predicament at the same time and there is no reason to believe that fresh food and water will be available at all, to anyone. It could be a pandemic, it could be a nuclear loss of a few of our major cities causing a national panic, it could be any situation where people do not go to work. Most of us may not even be effected by the tragedy but when you and 300,000,000 other people rush to the grocery store or gas station to stock up and come home empty handed, things will get very very bad very quickly.

 

When your electric power goes off and you know that there is no reason why it will come back on, almost everyone will panic. It starts in the ghetto and spreads everywhere. The larger the town you live in, the more you believe that you have to get out of town fast to survive. Head for the country. Get away from the masses. You make it one mile or 20 miles and you are in a traffic jam that is a gridlock. You have virtually no food, no water and you can't move your car and your little girl won't stop crying. You are surrounded by thousands of people who are just like you and you begin hearing gun fire from all directions.

 

Do you think anyone wants your hoard of cash?

Edited by 1Bigdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

as the saying goes, everything in moderation. Last year the biggest concern i had was potential race riots....milwaukee had some police abuse cases on minorities...the outcomes of which many expected to cause some chaos....I'm rather proud of the fact that my town did not go to hell like LA after Rodney King.....could very easily have gone south in a hurry....

 

I think the fact that even our white mayor called the acquittal of the police a travisty probably helped avoid the worst.

 

that said.....temporary societal breakdown is the most likely thing to happen in my area.....i'm going to be ready for that, ....not armageddon....i have no illusions that if a nuclear attack were tohappen in Milwuakee, that i would have any chance of survival...

 

To be honest....i have my guns for the enjoyment i get from shooting and hunting......if they help me out in some situation in the future...so much the better.

 

But yes...gotto admit....we do seem to "get off" a bit on our discussions.......we do seem to have our little Red Dawn mentalities at times....

 

I do put far more money into my mutual funds than into my Bug out Bag........by far.......so i'm under control.....

 

Gotta go now....have to go sharpen my knives, and read up on how to distill my own urine in the aftermath......lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

Drinking urine is perfectly safe, and a pretty good idea for when water gets scarce.

 

There are actually websites and articles about the health benefits of drinking (your own) urine, but I'll just keep that in mind until I actually need it to survive.

 

Now you know...

Edited by hellgrün-K
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great post all.

 

I am reading all this and it really makes me think. I have never been in a situation like this and will fast forward to reality and wake-up. We live in Austin and we're not impact by Katrina, but however; the ones that rushed from Houston to Austin for survival was a bit weird. Majority of Austin residents put in a one-two punch before the Houston residents even made it. Austin residents raided all the gorcery stores, purchased and sold out all fuel@gas stations and I really seriously nodded my head. To think that Houston residents had hope to come here to Austin, and instead came here and saw panic.

This made me realize that it was for each of there own and it was screw everyone else or at least that is what I felt from my heart.

-Keep in mind, I was not one of them raiding the gas station or grocery stores. But now, I can see... "to survive, be greedy".

 

All in all panic sucks and I probably would of died b/c I would of never though of being in a situation like this.

 

Thanks for making me realize now. I may need to be the next rambo for survival :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
" I was a boy scout too, but just what the HELL does SHTF stand for. This talking in code crap is chicken shit..."

 

-Take it easy, "termite". It's an acronym. People use them, especially in specialized groups such as this.

 

 

Don't get me wrong people, I keep a 1K box of ammo for each of my guns. My survival skills are well honed thanks to uncle sam. But this endless fantasizing over the "inevitable breakdown of society" is what I'm talking about. IMO, it's psychologically counterproductive. My plan for the future mainly involves investing in the market. I hope when you're ready to retire you will be happy with the choices you made.

 

 

You are a functional retardate if you think the market will beat guns in the next 20 years :D

 

If I'd spent all of my college money on guns I'd be a millionaire right now and I started college 1 month before Black Monday 1987 and saw suckers like you blowing their brains out and jumping in front of busses while my parents who had all their money in rental property and didn't feel a thing;)

 

It's unraveling partner and your little yuppie bubble is no "safe zone" because if nothing else costs are outpacing wages and the "have nots" are only going to borrow money for gas to get to work for so long before they flip out.The dollar has Peso like purchasing power and is rapidly being replaced by the Euro and the average worker has nothing to look forward to other than lifelong debt and servitude.Most of the people on this board will be working well into their 70s and 80s if they don't die young from a lack of adequate healthcare so when there's a bump in the road what do they have to look forward to?This society will implode because of it's excesses not because of some insurmountable catastrophe or war and SHTF is just an excuse to drag guys like you into the street,execute you and take all your stuff by people who didn't have it quite as easy as you growing up:D

 

I for one don't blame them but I am smart enough to live in a sparsely populated area because when it goes(and it has in every other society that has existed on this planet) I don't want to be on the menu;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
" I was a boy scout too, but just what the HELL does SHTF stand for. This talking in code crap is chicken shit..."

 

-Take it easy, "termite". It's an acronym. People use them, especially in specialized groups such as this.

 

 

Don't get me wrong people, I keep a 1K box of ammo for each of my guns. My survival skills are well honed thanks to uncle sam. But this endless fantasizing over the "inevitable breakdown of society" is what I'm talking about. IMO, it's psychologically counterproductive. My plan for the future mainly involves investing in the market. I hope when you're ready to retire you will be happy with the choices you made.

 

 

You are a functional retardate if you think the market will beat guns in the next 20 years :D

 

If I'd spent all of my college money on guns I'd be a millionaire right now and I started college 1 month before Black Monday 1987 and saw suckers like you blowing their brains out and jumping in front of busses while my parents who had all their money in rental property and didn't feel a thing;)

 

It's unraveling partner and your little "yuppie bubble" is no "safe zone" because if nothing else costs are outpacing wages and the "have nots" are only going to borrow money for gas to get to work for so long before they flip out.The dollar has Peso like purchasing power and is rapidly being replaced by the Euro and the average worker has nothing to look forward to other than lifelong debt and servitude.Most of the people on this board will be working well into their 70s and 80s if they don't die young from a lack of adequate healthcare so when there's a bump in the road what do they have to look forward to?This society will implode because of it's excesses not because of some insurmountable catastrophe or war and SHTF is just an excuse to drag guys like you into the street,execute you and take all your stuff by people who didn't have it quite as easy as you growing up:D

 

I for one don't blame them but I am smart enough to live in a sparsely populated area because when it goes(and it has in every other society that has existed on this planet) I don't want to be on the menu;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

SOPMOD wrote:

 

You are a functional retardate if you think the market will beat guns in the next 20 years

 

If I'd spent all of my college money on guns I'd be a millionaire right now and I started college 1 month before Black Monday 1987 and saw suckers like you blowing their brains out and jumping in front of busses while my parents who had all their money in rental property and didn't feel a thing;)

 

It's unraveling partner and your little "yuppie bubble" is no "safe zone" because if nothing else costs are outpacing wages and the "have nots" are only going to borrow money for gas to get to work for so long before they flip out.The dollar has Peso like purchasing power and is rapidly being replaced by the Euro and the average worker has nothing to look forward to other than lifelong debt and servitude.Most of the people on this board will be working well into their 70s and 80s if they don't die young from a lack of adequate healthcare so when there's a bump in the road what do they have to look forward to?This society will implode because of it's excesses not because of some insurmountable catastrophe or war and SHTF is just an excuse to drag guys like you into the street,execute you and take all your stuff by people who didn't have it quite as easy as you growing up:D

 

I for one don't blame them but I am smart enough to live in a sparsely populated area because when it goes(and it has in every other society that has existed on this planet) I don't want to be on the menu;)

 

 

Wow. There is no way I am touching this without getting a couple cups of coffee first. My father is having a relatively minor surgery today, and I have to head to the hospital soon. I'll come back an edit this post or respond later.

 

Offhand, I'd only add that we've been hearing this type of analysis for decades. While it has elements of truth to it, it's a tad more complicated than that.

 

And as I've tried to impart, preparing for one possibility does not preclude preparing for the other. We cannot work in a paradigm where we are using stereotypical characters in the place of acutal persons. Sure, they exist; there will be the survival-obsessed persons who shun any financial management just as there are those who only chase dollars and believe survival preparation is idiocy. I prefer an approach somewhere in the middle. I will not discount that SHTF can occur from a dozen pausible possibilities, but nor will I reject traditional financial planning which includes investment across asset classes-- including real estate (as was alluded to)

 

Like any other device, money is only a tool. It allows you to quickly barter for needs and services. So what if you lose out on your investment portfolio if the end of the world comes? You have a lot of other pressing issues such as staying alive.

 

 

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

not to be a dick here, or turn thiis into an arguement, but bob, that last post reads nothing at all like your initial post.

 

the money comment. money wont do you any good if something happens. it will to a point, but when there IS no fuel to buy or no food to be had, or nobody wants to part with THIERS (more likely), what will money do? it makes a good firestarter, at least.

 

on our little happy day of 9/11 I personally got more use out of a baseball bat than my wallet. I also drove down to NY and drove locals back home. I didnt get any money for that, nor did I want any. in fact, I got my fuel for free that day because of what I was doing with it. and it wasnt from the arab on the corner that we all caught dancing out front of his shop with his brother, dancing on our flag at 930am that day. that event alone shut my entire region down. ask any new englander about that week. you also might want to ask some of the LE people out there about attacks on arabs that week. for some reason, the local media was forbidden to cover and publish what REALLY happened. maybe thinking back at what the president asked us all to do (leave the muslims alone please is what he said), might give people a slight clue as to what happened that you DIDNT hear about. I wont incriminate myself here, but Im far from being innocent. I dont want to discuss that week any more than I just did, because it was not a very pleasant one for me. they picked a fight with me that Im going to finish is all Im saying on that. maybe that will help you understand why I am the way I am about it and them.

 

they can bring that on all they want. noone here is afraid of them or what they might do. the reaction will make the news next time they pull bullshit, I can promise you that one. it will be widespread and pretty final.

 

being in the midwest, bob, you dont know what happens when the entire state loses power. people go friggin CRAZY in short order. if something happened to the power grid here for longer than the last time (what was it out for guys? 12 hours or so?), you will need tony's toy he posted pictures of for real to defend your property if you had to set up life in a city or town. think katrina without the damage. it will resemble the rodney king riots, but will be on a regional scale. this is just how it is. nobody WANTS it to happen, but it will. simple fact of life, is how I see it, no use pussy footing around it.

 

you also are not the only one who knows how to build a house from scratch (unlike you, I do everything except the utility hookup to the pole when it comes to building or fixing residential homes), and you are also not the only person that cuts or has cut firewood to stay warm for twenty plus years. seeing how you brought it up, Ill boast that I can almost every time split a 6 foot ash log on the first hit. Im not really sure what that means, exactly. why dont we borrow a dwarf and see who can toss him farther and who can build him a shack faster? it wont prove anything other than the fact that other people out there know a thing or two. not sure what the hostility is about, there, bob, but Ive done nothing BUT struggle my entire life. I am honestly glad that you havent had to, and probably wont in the future. at least someone out there has it ok.

 

like sopmod was saying, not all of us have an easy life or had the chance to even think about going to college. I was invited to join menza as a teenager, passed spec op tests and was accepted for recon duty post 9/11 (promise of ten years of my life was a bit much to commit to), and there are various other things like that that I can say with authority, but it dont pay my bills. you older generation people dont understand how things have changed. the opportunity is just not really there anymore. try to get enough built up references, money, and education to get your general contractor's license NOW. its nothing like it used to be. times have changed, and things just slowly go downhill from here, and will continue to do so.

 

Ill take my practical knowledge and my 22 (and a bat, if it comes down to it again) and that is MY insurance on surviving whatever comes my way. maybe I can help a few others in the process. so far life hasnt been all too good to me personally, which is my own fault and all, but that still dont mean that I have to say that its ok and I like it and its ok for things to stay how they are. kind of a defeatist thing to say, but thats just HOW IT IS for my generation. unless you had mommy and daddy or whoever pay your way through an overpriced education, or got life in gear when the getting was still good in this country, you are up shits creek for the most part, stuck working till you are 80 with the illegal immigrant horde as your direct competition. thats what my father's hippie liberal generation left for us to pass to our kids. WAY TO GO POP!

 

pleasant person, arent I??? :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok bvamp, back up a bit.

 

I didn't bring up the part about using a chainsaw-JWarren did. His exact quote was " Thinking that all you ever need to know was taught to you in the military will probably only insure you are the first to cut your own foot off when a chainsaw kicks back on you. Tradesmen, like BVamp, have a LOT more advice to offer than your drill sargent." That is what predicated my comment.

 

Dude, I haven't sent ANY hostility your way. I am exactly like you in one very important way: I will fucking tell you what I am thinking, no-holds-barred, and I appreciate that about you as well.

 

My only issue with you, and you already know this, is immigration. This whole thing about "SHTF" etc. is a minor deal...I don't really care how much energy/money you spend preparing for the apocalypse, I was just speaking my mind as always. As the son of immigrant parents, I (perhaps) have a different perspective than you do.

 

Your comment about my not having to struggle in my life is absurd, however. I put myself through college (no parental help, no scholarships. In fact, I only entered college after I was released from active duty). I worked as a carpenter to pay my way through college, eventually becoming a Journeyman. Your comment "...unless you had mommy and daddy or whoever pay your way through an overpriced education..." pisses me off to no end. You know what my parents did when they got to this country? They picked fucking oranges. That's right motherfucker...oranges. If you think I had some kinda gold-plated easy-street upbringing you can kiss my ass. The truth is, I joined the Marines when I was 17 years old because I had nowhere else to go after graduation.

 

Your comments abou Mensa, etc...well, bro....I never said I was smarter than you. I never said I was more skilled than you. I never said I was tougher than you. But I'll tell you one thing: I fucking know what "E PLURIBUS UNUM" means and I know that the cornerstone of this country is it's immigrant heritage and I welcome anyone to refute that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SOPMOD wrote:

 

You are a functional retardate if you think the market will beat guns in the next 20 years

 

If I'd spent all of my college money on guns I'd be a millionaire right now and I started college 1 month before Black Monday 1987 and saw suckers like you blowing their brains out and jumping in front of busses while my parents who had all their money in rental property and didn't feel a thing;)

 

It's unraveling partner and your little "yuppie bubble" is no "safe zone" because if nothing else costs are outpacing wages and the "have nots" are only going to borrow money for gas to get to work for so long before they flip out.The dollar has Peso like purchasing power and is rapidly being replaced by the Euro and the average worker has nothing to look forward to other than lifelong debt and servitude.Most of the people on this board will be working well into their 70s and 80s if they don't die young from a lack of adequate healthcare so when there's a bump in the road what do they have to look forward to?This society will implode because of it's excesses not because of some insurmountable catastrophe or war and SHTF is just an excuse to drag guys like you into the street,execute you and take all your stuff by people who didn't have it quite as easy as you growing up:D

 

I for one don't blame them but I am smart enough to live in a sparsely populated area because when it goes(and it has in every other society that has existed on this planet) I don't want to be on the menu;)

 

 

Wow. There is no way I am touching this without getting a couple cups of coffee first. My father is having a relatively minor surgery today, and I have to head to the hospital soon. I'll come back an edit this post or respond later.

 

Offhand, I'd only add that we've been hearing this type of analysis for decades. While it has elements of truth to it, it's a tad more complicated than that.

 

And as I've tried to impart, preparing for one possibility does not preclude preparing for the other. We cannot work in a paradigm where we are using stereotypical characters in the place of acutal persons. Sure, they exist; there will be the survival-obsessed persons who shun any financial management just as there are those who only chase dollars and believe survival preparation is idiocy. I prefer an approach somewhere in the middle. I will not discount that SHTF can occur from a dozen pausible possibilities, but nor will I reject traditional financial planning which includes investment across asset classes-- including real estate (as was alluded to)

 

Like any other device, money is only a tool. It allows you to quickly barter for needs and services. So what if you lose out on your investment portfolio if the end of the world comes? You have a lot of other pressing issues such as staying alive.

 

 

John

 

Decades? It was just 1968 when the lowest paid segment of the populatoion could support a "stay at home wife" and child on 40 hours per week of minimum wage.It's been a transition of 3.5 decades which in a minute period of time in the fall of a civilization and as we watch other nations crumbled into decripitude and once great cities become gigantic refugee camps full of peacekeepers we can watch the exact same conditions that lead them to that point starting 40 years ago happening even here in the USA right now:(

 

Babylon,Assyria,Egypt,Athens,Persia,Rome, all greater civilizations than our own with histories measured in millenia rather than centuries did not last much beyond the polint we are at and the Muzzy's and Illegals are the visigoths at out gates and this chapter will be over in my lifetime if someone doesn't get the idea to bring back the middle class and quit ripping them off.

 

I for one would love to see the return of the middle class but as the last of a vanishing breed I will most likely step back and hope the Foreign Controlled,Latin American Junta that will eventually run this country will allow me to maintain at least partial ownership of my real estate holdings :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
Because I still wasn't just willing to take that on faith, I devised something to check them. I have no idea if it worked in reality since-- as I said-- none were hot. I kept a long slender metal pole with me. I'd plant one end on the ground and let go of it. The *idea* was that the pole, when it fell onto the line, would short circuit through the pole into the ground. This would give visible and audible indications that you really don't want to be messing with that line.

 

Please don't do this. If you must, be a long ways away before the falling pole hits the wire.

 

You see, when the wire shorts into the ground where does it go? Everywhere!

 

When my brother and I were younger and less...."well-adjusted"... we used to lay one end of the electric fence for cattle on the ground and then call the dogs over to us and then watch them run away when they "got the tingles" in their feet. Even through tennis shoes we could feel the zap of each pulse as it spread out in every direction. And we weren't even touching the fence wire anywhere, we were a few feet away from where it was going into the ground.

 

I'm pretty sure powerlines would have a bigger zap as the longest arc I ever got that electric fence to do was only about 1/3 of an unch.

Edited by busy_squirrel
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, SOPMOD...

 

"You are a functional retardate if you think the market will beat guns in the next 20 years"...well there are a lot of us 'tards out there, I guess I'm in pretty good company. I guess you could invest in transferrable machine guns, they do pretty well- and just hope they won't be eventually outlawed.

 

"...I started college 1 month before Black Monday 1987 and saw suckers like you blowing their brains out and jumping in front of busses..." Well, I was there too. I'm quite a bit older than you, actually. I didn't jump in front of any buses and in fact, my investments are all more valuable than ever (Like your parents, I also invest in real estate).

 

"...your little "yuppie bubble"..." lol dude. just lol.

 

This society will implode because of it's excesses not because of some insurmountable catastrophe or war and SHTF is just an excuse to drag guys like you into the street,execute you and take all your stuff by people who didn't have it quite as easy as you growing up:D ...This may be the funniest thing I've ever read on this board, actually.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this was an interesting, constructive thread for a while....

I picked up a lot of knowledge and ideas, thanks to all who contributed.

 

As I mentioned early on in this thread, I never really gave much thought to the "doomsday" predictors until I saw things unravelling around me. Then, it hit home, that I was vulnerable to those who may want to victimize me or mine, or just vulnerable to good ol' Mother Nature, either way, I decided I would take steps to minimize that exposure.

No different than the approach one might take to their investment strategy, generally, minimizing your exposure to negative conditions.

 

I think each and every one of us has at least bits of information, knowledge or life-experiences that we could all benefit from. I think one aspect of preparedness is being open to evaluating all of them, sometimes thinking outside of the box that we all put ourselves in, usually unknowingly.

 

Thanks again to all who shared those with us.

 

Respectfully posted,

Guido2 in Houston

Link to post
Share on other sites

immigration is fine. regulated, controlled, calculated immigration that is. not the immigration that just floods the market with cheap unskilled labor. the legal immigrants cant get work half of the time because of the ILLEGAL immigration.

 

ill apologise to you bob, for starting a fight. was not my intention. you readily will admit that the world and this country is not the same as it was, Im sure.

 

anyhow, that is that. Im done argueing needlessly.

 

maybe this topic will go back on target, or perhaps I will go back over it and cut the arguements out, because we were on a good track and sharing insights and all that loveliness with each other so that maybe, just MAYBE, life might be a little simpler and easier on any of us if something bad does happen. well, not if, more like when.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here's my two cents, after reading the above thread. (BTW JWarren, excellent writing skills).

 

I've noticed that all the stories of crime, despair, SHTF, etc are either based in major urban areas or the South. I wonder why that is?

 

Central Nebraska went without power this Dec/Jan for about 4 weeks (or more in some areas). Nobody blamed Bush; nobody looted; nobody blamed FEMA, etc. I was in North Dakota a few years ago with the huge floods. Same thing, no riots, lawlessness, etc.

 

Now I'm not picking a fight here, but I am really curious, as to why the South has such SHTF crime problems during a storm/disaster? I understand urban areas and their crimes.

 

Is it a generic entitlement mentality? US Govt owes me? I'm owed, so I'll take someone elses?

 

My point again is that you don't see this behavior in the Great Plains, or Mountain regions. I suppose you might find an exception, which simply proves my point.

 

I'd like to learn, and if you have good answers, please, explain them to me.

 

(Not putting on flame suit, it's legit questions, but expecting flames, nonetheless)

Link to post
Share on other sites

v188,

You said that trouble was in urban areas or the south, may I remind you that in NC we get more than our fair share of Hurricanes and you never hear about us rioting, we take care of each other.

 

I heard today that there was a fire or tornado that hit a hotel housing Katrina refugees, how long can they remain in Refugee status? What do you think time to find a job.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have pretty simple answers to that question...

(Talk about opening the "flame door"...well, here goes...)

 

Answer to the crime thing?

-Ethnic-based gangs

 

Answer to the entitlement thing?

Ethnic based groups who have been "conditioned" to expect something, from somebody, whenever they declare a need for it.

I'm not putting all of the blame on them, note the "conditioned" term...We (as a nation) have "trained 'em" that this is an acceptable, and productive, response.

 

Kinda has me wondering what the next group of "folks here to do the work Anglo's won't do" will be expecting in a generation (or less...)

 

Sorry if that bluntness is out of line here....

 

Respectfully and candidly posted,

Guido2 in Houston

Link to post
Share on other sites

v188 wrote:

 

OK, here's my two cents, after reading the above thread. (BTW JWarren, excellent writing skills).

 

I've noticed that all the stories of crime, despair, SHTF, etc are either based in major urban areas or the South. I wonder why that is?

 

Central Nebraska went without power this Dec/Jan for about 4 weeks (or more in some areas). Nobody blamed Bush; nobody looted; nobody blamed FEMA, etc. I was in North Dakota a few years ago with the huge floods. Same thing, no riots, lawlessness, etc.

 

Now I'm not picking a fight here, but I am really curious, as to why the South has such SHTF crime problems during a storm/disaster? I understand urban areas and their crimes.

 

Is it a generic entitlement mentality? US Govt owes me? I'm owed, so I'll take someone elses?

 

My point again is that you don't see this behavior in the Great Plains, or Mountain regions. I suppose you might find an exception, which simply proves my point.

 

I'd like to learn, and if you have good answers, please, explain them to me.

 

(Not putting on flame suit, it's legit questions, but expecting flames, nonetheless)

 

 

v188,

 

Thank you for the compliment.

 

You bring up a good question-- one that will likely have as many opinions as to its reasons as there are posters following this thread. You could expect, if you ask enough people, answers that have emotionally charged viewpoints such as ethnicity, etc.

 

I'll give my take on it from some experience growing up in the South, living in various urban cities, and also going through that storm. I'll stress that this is only one of many opinions and comes from my observations. I would not be so arrogant to believe that I have the full answer, or even the definitive one.

 

Some have blamed it on a ethinc or cultural catalyst. It is a fact that there are higher concentrations of black persons in the Central South and also in inner-city urban environments in various areas of the US. Some have made racist comments about the looting as such in the aftermath of Katrina (not on this board, but other places.) However, I don't see ethnicity as a primary cause.

 

In my opinion, poverty is a primary cause. It is no secret that income levels are significantly lower in the Central South and in urban environments. It has been my experience that a significant portion of the lower income persons in these areas are black. Somehow, that has translated in some people's minds that the civil unrest is a result of black persons, not the economic realities in many persons' lives. There were a lot of people that did not have the means or the inclination to prepare for such events and became desperate. I even saw some people who DID have the means to be prepared, but didn't become desperate when thier food ran out.

 

I don't see a genetic-entitlement function, either-- or perhaps I haven't fully wrapped my brain around the "genetic" component. I don't see anything genetic about entitlement. I do, however, see a lot of people in this country who have been promised repeatedly that the US government will take care of all thier needs-- and they believed it. I'm not talking about welfare, SSI, etc. I'm talking about all these agencies and programs of the government and the promises they have made to justify spending our tax money on them. When everything breaks down, and these agencies rectify the issues in a manner expected, people begin to cry foul.

 

I will say that there is a cultural component to this mentality. A lot of the poorer persons-- regardless of race--- have learned through 3 or so generations how to use the system. To give an example: My wife is a pre-k teacher in a poor section of the a nearby city. Of 20 children in her room, only 6 actually had a father listed on their birth certificate. Of those 20 children, only one had both parents in the household. Of the 20, every single one was recieving government benefits based on this. A number of parents over the years has requested thier children to be tested for learning disabilities to be classified as "developmentally delayed." Those that qualify get an extra check every month from the government. Often, parents whose children were found not to be developmentally delayed will approach my wife to re-test the child repeatedly until they fail the test.

 

This is the world we live in.

 

I personally dislike FEMA, but not for the reasons one would expect. What I saw in the hurricane's aftermath was people working to solve thier own problems and to take care of thier own communities. All that stopped EXACTLY when FEMA showed up. I don't know what it is, but the instant FEMA was seen, no one felt that they had to do anything anymore. Everyone sat back and waited for FEMA to do it for them. I hate that FEMA was immediately relyed on by able-bodied persons when before they relied on themselves and each other. I saw people become lazy, greedy, and taking on an air of pitifulness that simply didn't exist before FEMA came in. It wasn't FEMA's fault, but it shows our want and need to depend on the government.

 

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

John

Edited by JWarren
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bvamp, I apologise for losing my temper. I consider everyone on this forum, and you (and a few others) in particular, my friend.

 

I knew it would be an unpopular opinion on a gun forum.

 

Anyway, I won't be back to this thread. So, you guys can discuss your strategies unhindered by me.

Edited by BobAsh
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...