AegisDei 2 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm trying to manufacture a two chamber tank-style muzzle brake, but all the prices I've been quoted are INSANE!!! I'm in no hurry, so it can be done on your own time at your leisure, you'll get paid for it, and you'd get your own two-of-a-kind muzzle brake (I'd of course have the other). All it will take is a 3-axis mill and a block of 4130 steel. I'll provide the specs so all you have to do is plug it into a CAD program and turn your mill on = almost no work! Please let me know if you, or someone you know, can help. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
E-TAC 47 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I've been building comps for over 16 years now, and I get bunch of one off requests. Machines and time cost lots of cash, if I were to cut a oneoff comp using a $100k machine and tooling I would have to charge a min of $500 and I still would lose money. You need to make friends a machinist in your area; let him shoot your shotgun and buy him lots of beer, then you will get a deal. One day I will post a pic of my Big S12 comp, too bad I cant bring the cost under $500 yet. For those that want to know, its like a big sound supperssor with reverse cones and the can part allmost gone... You could also try using a Barrett 50 comp and have a gunsmith open it up and fix it with 22x.75 teeth. Aloha IPSCGUN.COM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I've been building comps for over 16 years now, and I get bunch of one off requests. Machines and time cost lots of cash, if I were to cut a oneoff comp using a $100k machine and tooling I would have to charge a min of $500 and I still would lose money. You need to make friends a machinist in your area; let him shoot your shotgun and buy him lots of beer, then you will get a deal. One day I will post a pic of my Big S12 comp, too bad I cant bring the cost under $500 yet. For those that want to know, its like a big sound supperssor with reverse cones and the can part allmost gone... You could also try using a Barrett 50 comp and have a gunsmith open it up and fix it with 22x.75 teeth. Aloha IPSCGUN.COM Why 4130?? Shotgun lacks velocity and amount of gas eating brake like in .223. So, what is the reason not to use 7075 aluminium? Steel makes your saiga quite front heavy. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jman 0 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) Give me a call with your needs. I'm up for doing anything for the S12. I can make just about anything, and because of my intrest I'll shoot you an unbeatable deal. Here's my website with contact info.: (If I can't get to the phone please leave me a message because I'm currently pretty busy working on a few movie projects, or just drop me an email.) Best; Joe Edited February 15, 2007 by jman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rebelyell76t 0 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Have you had any thoughts of having it fabricated. I'm a sheetmetal fabricator and have been thinking of making something like that for my s-20. The expensive part of the machine work is the machine time. It would be drastically reduced this way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) I've been building comps for over 16 years now, and I get bunch of one off requests. Machines and time cost lots of cash, if I were to cut a oneoff comp using a $100k machine and tooling I would have to charge a min of $500 and I still would lose money. You need to make friends a machinist in your area; let him shoot your shotgun and buy him lots of beer, then you will get a deal. One day I will post a pic of my Big S12 comp, too bad I cant bring the cost under $500 yet. For those that want to know, its like a big sound supperssor with reverse cones and the can part allmost gone... You could also try using a Barrett 50 comp and have a gunsmith open it up and fix it with 22x.75 teeth. IPSCGUN.COM I'd love to see a pic of your S12 comp! That'd be awesome!!! And yes, I've been quoted right around the $600 range for a single one. Drops to about $250ea when I get 5, and about $150ea when I get 15. But I want to test the prototype before I try to run off a handful. I don't want anyone else having to pay for my designs if they don't work. I've looked into the Barrett's, but they're $250 before gunsmithing costs, and they won't mate with a poly-choke (see below). So I decided to start from scratch. Why 4130?? Shotgun lacks velocity and amount of gas eating brake like in .223. So, what is the reason not to use 7075 aluminium? Steel makes your saiga quite front heavy. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Ah, the man that motivated my obsession! Hey JamShot!!! It's been a year after I first got your input and I'm finally about to start production. A slow turn-around time, but I've spent a lot of time teaching myself to machine, learning about hydro-dynamics, and learning about compensators/silencers/etc. I'm still working on the mag-wells too...they're coming, slowly but surely. The reasons for 4130: 1) cheap = aluminum is about 4-8x the cost. I'm already looking at spending $600 for 4130, so I'd be bumping up to $1000+ for aluminum 2) heavy = adding weight to the end of a lever arm will help reduce felt recoil and combat muzzle climb. since there's not much velocity to a shotgun load there's also not all that much pressure, so the brake won't be nearly as effective as it would for a bottleneck round. thus, adding a bit more weight will help, especially since i plan on keep the overall length fairly short. 3) easy to work on = steel is a forgiving material. it can be machined easily, to tight tolerances, it's not brittle, it's hard, and it's weldable. i plan to permanently attach it to my barrel, so i need something that can be welded onto the barrel to keep me above the ATF's legal limit. 4) same material as Poly-chokes = like yours, mine is designed to mate with a post-brake Poly-choke. this way, with the flip of my wrist i can go from wide open to x-tra full. it'd be harder to mount a 4130 poly-choke to an aluminium brake, and cost more. Give me a call with your needs. I'm up for doing anything for the S12.I can make just about anything, and because of my intrest I'll shoot you an unbeatable deal. Woohoo!!! I have to do some last minute design tweaks. I'm working with some engineers and we're debating whether 2 or 3 chambers is better, then I want to ensure I get the right ratios. Have you had any thoughts of having it fabricated. I'm a sheetmetal fabricator and have been thinking of making something like that for my s-20. The expensive part of the machine work is the machine time. It would be drastically reduced this way. I thought about that, but for the reasons above I felt that 4130 would be the best bet, and I didn't think it'd fabricate easily. Additionally, it's going to be a two-piece design so that the top functions as an expansion chamber (think blow-off valve), so I need to be sure to have enough material to thread and sink a screw into. I figured sheet metal would be too thin to do that. I'm learning as I go, so please let me know if any of you have suggestions for me: I'm open to them. I'm also starting to seriously begin the mag-well design, I just wanted to start with a brake since it's a bit cheaper/easier. Edited February 15, 2007 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 You need to consider what the guy can be doing INSTEAD of your job, and how much he can make doing something else. If the guy can make $250 an hour running other parts and has work stacked up for months, why take on your job for $50 an hour? Your business is competing with his other business that makes a pile more money. If you find a guy with a bunch of machines sitting idle, with guys standing around with their thumbs up their asses, you'll get a much better rate then with a shop that has a pile of profitable business waiting to get done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
will36 0 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) You need to consider what the guy can be doing INSTEAD of your job, and how much he can make doing something else. If the guy can make $250 an hour running other parts and has work stacked up for months, why take on your job for $50 an hour? Your business is competing with his other business that makes a pile more money. If you find a guy with a bunch of machines sitting idle, with guys standing around with their thumbs up their asses, you'll get a much better rate then with a shop that has a pile of profitable business waiting to get done. Tony , Its a machine shop if there are machines idle and employs with there thumbs up there asses. They must suck pretty bad. People dont realize we cant buy tools at wal-mart or sears to make a living with. Our tools cost 5 times that. I have 40 thousand dollars worth of tool and a 6 grand tool box. And buddies wonder why I dont want to fix a dent in there car for a case of beer. OR hey can used your Mig for the weekend? Edited February 16, 2007 by will36 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 You need to consider what the guy can be doing INSTEAD of your job, and how much he can make doing something else. If the guy can make $250 an hour running other parts and has work stacked up for months, why take on your job for $50 an hour? Your business is competing with his other business that makes a pile more money. a great point...it's just shocking to see a hunk of metal that costs $600. but i do realize it takes some expensive machine time for which there is a low supply and a high demand. i'm just glad to find some saiga lovers that are willing to help the cause. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 The reasons for 4130:1) cheap = aluminum is about 4-8x the cost. I'm already looking at spending $600 for 4130, so I'd be bumping up to $1000+ for aluminum 2) heavy = adding weight to the end of a lever arm will help reduce felt recoil and combat muzzle climb. since there's not much velocity to a shotgun load there's also not all that much pressure, so the brake won't be nearly as effective as it would for a bottleneck round. thus, adding a bit more weight will help, especially since i plan on keep the overall length fairly short. 3) easy to work on = steel is a forgiving material. it can be machined easily, to tight tolerances, it's not brittle, it's hard, and it's weldable. i plan to permanently attach it to my barrel, so i need something that can be welded onto the barrel to keep me above the ATF's legal limit. 4) same material as Poly-chokes = like yours, mine is designed to mate with a post-brake Poly-choke. this way, with the flip of my wrist i can go from wide open to x-tra full. it'd be harder to mount a 4130 poly-choke to an aluminium brake, and cost more. 1) Cheaper material can make machining time longer. Titanium is expensive to get and machine. 2)Weight in wrong end. I'm seriously thinking to fill AR-stock with steel rod beacuse solid steel AR-stock adapter made very pleasant surprise in handling in form of balance. 3)Which one can be machined more easily: 4130 or 7075? But you're right, only another can be welded. 4)Brake can be at the end of choke too. I have one before and one after. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Jamshot, That brake is a work of art!!! I particularly like the "Danger" print on the broad side! You Finns got it going on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I particularly like the "Danger" print on the broad side! As you see from screen it bends and collides gases more than normal brakes do. So, when putting a magfull (53) of bullets fly through it with fast pace, somehow it turns out pretty darn hot. That's why I added "danger" for reminding not to bag the gun straight after long COF and to warn people who might try touch it in safety area when standing on bi-pod while cooling down. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 1) Cheaper material can make machining time longer. 2)Weight in wrong end. I'm seriously thinking to fill AR-stock with steel rod beacuse solid steel AR-stock adapter made very pleasant surprise in handling in form of balance. 3)Which one can be machined more easily: 4130 or 7075? But you're right, only another can be welded. 4)Brake can be at the end of choke too. I have one before and one after. 1) Yes, unfortunately that is true. 2) I put a 1lbs mercury recoil reducer in my AR stock. It's AWESOME! the balance of the gun is very much improved, and the mercury does eat some of the recoil. Due to the density and fluidity of mercury, i figured it's more effective than a steal rod. 3) 7075 is easier to machine, but i believe it's more brittle so I worry it'd break more easily on thin walls, especially when drilling/threading thin walls. And welding would be much more difficult. 4) Since there's not that much pressure with shotgun loads, the brake has to be virtually the same diameter as the column of gas to see any benefit. If the brake is post-choke, then there's a huge difference between Xtra Full and Cylinder bore. You're talking .05", which would equate to a significant change in recoil reduction due to gas scavenging. Going pre- and post- choke would work well, but adds a lot to overall length. Pre-choke will do the most good (if using only one), and keeps the barrel length more manageable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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