.223 carbine rifles which to choose?

[45leadslinger 0]

here is what i am looking for: I want a good realiable cheap (realtive-willing to pay more for realiable and accurate), able to handle cheap ammo, accurate out to 500mm.

 

Basically a fun easy on the pocket weekly shooter and great SHTF gun.

 

i have been looking at the .223 carbine again and still remain confused.

 

1. i know the AR has great accuracy but the in the field realiablity suffers due to not being able to clean that often.

2, The ak has great reliablity but accuracy suffers past 100yds. I dont' know about the ak .223

 

3. Then add in the saiga and the cost of the conversion. would it be cheaper to buy an already built ak .223? What are the accuracy differences and mag realiability.

 

3. the new gas piston ar's are out but man 1500 or more is steep.

 

any help getting my options down to a couple of good battle worthy rifles would be appreciated.

 

thanks in advance

 

Paul

[will36 0]

here is what i am looking for: I want a good realiable cheap (realtive-willing to pay more for realiable and accurate), able to handle cheap ammo, accurate out to 500mm.

 

Basically a fun easy on the pocket weekly shooter and great SHTF gun.

 

i have been looking at the .223 carbine again and still remain confused.

 

1. i know the AR has great accuracy but the in the field realiablity suffers due to not being able to clean that often.

2, The ak has great reliablity but accuracy suffers past 100yds. I dont' know about the ak .223

 

3. Then add in the saiga and the cost of the conversion. would it be cheaper to buy an already built ak .223? What are the accuracy differences and mag realiability.

 

3. the new gas piston ar's are out but man 1500 or more is steep.

 

any help getting my options down to a couple of good battle worthy rifles would be appreciated.

 

thanks in advance

 

sounds like you need Mini 14 .

[TEXASAK73 13]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

[will36 0]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

 

I was just being a smart a$$ I like to stir the shi# from time to time.

[JK-47 33]

you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.

 

I know SHTF, im guessing DHTF= Democrats hit the fan... but what the heck is ZHTF?

[TEXASAK73 13]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

 

I was just being a smart a$$ I like to stir the shi# from time to time.

 

 

Well,I figured that.I was being helpful and thought maybe this newb would actually go out and buy a mini-14.Could you imagine the backlash we here might suffer if we convinced someone to buy one of those POS rifles?

[TEXASAK73 13]

you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.

 

I know SHTF, im guessing DHTF= Democrats hit the fan... but what the heck is ZHTF?

 

ZOMBIES HIT THE FAN!

[will36 0]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

 

I was just being a smart a$$ I like to stir the shi# from time to time.

 

 

Well,I figured that.I was being helpful and thought maybe this newb would actually go out and buy a mini-14.Could you imagine the backlash we here might suffer if we convinced someone to buy one of those POS rifles?

 

 

A POS rifle you mean 10 thousand prison guards got it wrong. My buddy has the arkansas Dept. of corrections contract.

He works on there mini's by the arm loads.

[TEXASAK73 13]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

 

I was just being a smart a$$ I like to stir the shi# from time to time.

 

 

Well,I figured that.I was being helpful and thought maybe this newb would actually go out and buy a mini-14.Could you imagine the backlash we here might suffer if we convinced someone to buy one of those POS rifles?

 

 

A POS rifle you mean 10 thousand prison guards got it wrong. My buddy has the arkansas Dept. of corrections contract.

He works on there mini's by the arm loads.

 

 

Aren't those select fire?I'd take one of two of those.I'm sure they can hit a man sized target @100 yards.

[45leadslinger 0]

I think everyone gets a mini 14 at some point in their life. Not that there are bad but definately leave you wanting more.

 

I am sportserizing a 1911 swed 6.5 bolt action for those really long shots.

 

What about the accuracy comparison saiga and ak .223?

 

Anyone get any feed back on the ar15 gas piston operated ar's.

[Echo_Four 0]

I don't know why everyone insists that the AR is so unreliable. I have literally tens of thousands of rounds down range through AR's and M-16's and I have had exactly one stoppage. If you keep it reasonably clean it will work for as long as you need it to work. I doubt many of us will ever be situation where we need to shoot 1,500 rounds without an opportunity to clean the weapon. That being the case, it is as reliable as you could want. Cheap, they aren't, but they are reliable.

[Pointer 21]

How about a SKS,not .223 but 7.62x39.Tapco's got a cool new stock and reliable 20rd mags.

 

I picked up two shooter grade SKS's about a year ago for $89 bucks each.Im planning on setting one up like in the video.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Pointer

[Bad Bob 0]

A POS rifle you mean 10 thousand prison guards got it wrong. My buddy has the arkansas Dept. of corrections contract.

He works on there mini's by the arm loads.

I once owned a California Highway Patrol-surplus K-Mini-14-20/GB - it was the most reliable Mini-14 I ever owned (kind of wish I hadn't sold it - although I do prefer my Saiga ;>). I think some of those law enforcement armorers know how to 'tweak' things a bit...

[will36 0]

Friends don't let friends buy mini-14's.

 

A S-223 will cost you $250.00+ a basic conversion to pistol grip and use of hi-cap mags will run you another $150.00 and you suplly the US parts.$400+ later and you have a very reliable firearm for SHTF,ZHTF,DHTF scenarios.But if you want to hit them at 500+ get a S-308 and convert it for about the same.

 

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/services/services.html

 

I was just being a smart a$$ I like to stir the shi# from time to time.

 

 

Well,I figured that.I was being helpful and thought maybe this newb would actually go out and buy a mini-14.Could you imagine the backlash we here might suffer if we convinced someone to buy one of those POS rifles?

 

 

A POS rifle you mean 10 thousand prison guards got it wrong. My buddy has the arkansas Dept. of corrections contract.

He works on there mini's by the arm loads.

 

 

Aren't those select fire?I'd take one of two of those.I'm sure they can hit a man sized target @100 yards.

 

dont know about other states but all of the ADC. ones so far are semi. Most are magazine problems. @ every shift change they have to unload the mag. and count ammo. same on the shotguns. . Almost never fired , but loaded and unloaded 100's of times a week.

[greatmoose 4]

You know, if you wanted to save a few bucks, don't covert the saiga. I've got a converted 308 and an uncoverted one, and I really like the uncoverted a lot more than I thought I would. I've got it config'd kinda like a poor man's SOCOM II, and with a simple stock change, config'd like a MAS 49/56 (one of my favorites). Not a bad way to go...

[Echo_Four 0]

Wouldn't that be a 922r problem? The need/desire for high capacity mags is the only reason I am doing the conversion. I would be OK with the sporter stock (although it is a bit long) but 10 rounds and mags that are next to impossible to find convinced me to make the change.

[greatmoose 4]

Well, you can get 922r compliance pretty easily without a conversion. The FBMG mag has 2 parts, you can get a US gas piston from Tapco, and you can use the hammer from a G2 for the 4th part. Or use a US handguard. Tromix used to make mag followers, but he's out and doesn't plan on getting any more (or so I've heard).

[Bad Bob 0]

Well, you can get 922r compliance pretty easily without a conversion. The FBMG mag has 2 parts, you can get a US gas piston from Tapco, and you can use the hammer from a G2 for the 4th part. Or use a US handguard...

 

Words of wisdom...

[vjor 2]

One thing I find with all saigas on ther original state

if the poor trigger they have, one reason for a conversion.

 

Just my 2 cents worth of nothing at all.

[Bad Bob 0]

One thing I find with all saigas on ther original state

if the poor trigger they have, one reason for a conversion.

 

Just my 2 cents worth of nothing at all.

I used to be stuck living (if you could call it that) in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, where even the factory-stock Saiga is outlawed, so I recognize the benefit of having 'politically correct' firearms available. But vjor has a very valid point - most of the real 'experts' will tell you that trigger pull is of primary importance. If you're stuck in a Blue State, you might be able to improve the trigger pull yourself (on a stock Saiga), or even better, have an experienced gunsmith do it for you. But the factory fire control group is kind of a 'Rube Goldberg' arrangement (longer & more complicated than really necessary) by definition, so the easiest way to improve your trigger is to just do a conversion - if that's legal where you live.

 

If I couldn't do a standard pistol grip conversion due to State law, I would still consider adding enough 'compliance' parts to a Saiga, if it would let me use hi-cap mags legally. Bottom line: a factory Saiga is still basically an AKM in terms of reliability, and I would probably go with a factory Saiga, if that's all my State allowed, rather than (for example) a Mini-14. I've got nothing against Mini-14s (I've owned 3 of them) - I just think the Saiga (in any caliber) is a world-class value.

 

FWIW, and your mileage may vary...