More Accuracy Questions

[DocV 0]

This is a spin off from Harpoon's thread, so if the Mods want to move it...

 

I took my .308 out for some serious range time Saturday after mounting the scope, bore sighting, and dry firing practice. With Indian ammo manufactured in 1975 the best group I got at 100m was a clover leaf. The other groups were any where from 1.5 to 2.75 inches.

 

Texlurch said in the other post he can get single hole groups. I have an aquantaince with a Saiga, who helped coach me, say the same thing so I have no doubt that this rfle is capable of MOA accuracy or better. What I described in my post was a personal best for me.

 

I'd like to see how accurate I can get as a personal challenge to me. In fact, my "project" now is to see how consistently accurate I can get at 100, 200, and 300 meters with a rifle for the minimum of modification and expense.

 

So far I have bought a Saiga 22" rifle, polished the FCG, got unfilled bench rest sand bags at a local gun shop for 7.99 each , 39.00 for the scope mount and rings from Tickbite Supply , and 40 dollars for the scope on Ebay. The sand for the bags was free from the beach. I bought 200 rounds of Indian 7.62 on Auction Arms for 54.00 for sighting/initial break in. I also have about 1000 rounds of 7.62 brass from work for free. I already have a single stage reloader, just need to buy the dies, primer, powder, and bullets.

 

Sooooooo:

 

What else can folks recommend to maximize accuracy?

 

1. The shooter needs to practice. Dry fire as well as live fire. With a coach/spotter. That's a given. Any training tips? That last formal instruction I had was 15 years ago and given by the USMC on the M16A2 rifle.

 

2. Re-load recommendations? Primers, powder, brass prep, bullet type, weight.

 

3. Modifications/tweaks to the weapon or optics that don't require purchasing new FCG's, scopes, etc. I'm looking for shadetree 'smith tips and techniques. The idea is "this is what you've got, here's your basic tools, get to it".

 

4. Where does the grouping start to break down? 400, 500, 600m?

 

By the way, I had absolutely no problems from first round to last.

 

Thanks,

 

DocV

Edited March 27, 2007 by DocV

[ZigMund 0]

as for reloading, I made a spreadsheet to compare price savings, and the likes with different powders, primers, and bullets. I did not take the cost of anything else into account. Primer prices are so close that it's a personal choice on which to use. Powder was slightly different, but still not enough to change the cost significantly. The bullets are where you take the hit on reloading. here's a little piece of my sheet....

 

[DocV 0]

as for reloading, I made a spreadsheet to compare price savings, and the likes with different powders, primers, and bullets. I did not take the cost of anything else into account. Primer prices are so close that it's a personal choice on which to use. Powder was slightly different, but still not enough to change the cost significantly. The bullets are where you take the hit on reloading. here's a little piece of my sheet....

 

Thanks! Did you find that any one bullet type or manufacturer performed better?

 

DocV

[ZigMund 0]

No, I haven't started doing reloads for my .308 yet. I made the spreadsheet to calculate savings vs. buying bulk ammo from distributors/online sales. I found that it was well worth it. Also, I plan to tinker with loads and such. I will definately submit my results when I have them.

[DocV 0]

From what I gather, reading past posts, favored powders seem to be Alliant RL-15 and IMR 4895 and favored bullet weights seem to be around 148 to 150 gr. I saw mention of 125 gr Noslers and 168 gr using Varget powder.

 

I have only reloaded for pistols so I have no first hand knowledge, I just compiled the info I found archived. The Alliant and IMR were the powders most frequently cited and the 148-150 gr bullet weights were the most frequently mentioned.

 

I figured to work up loads with both powders and see what worked best with my rifle. Not sure yet as far as bullet type.

[Havoc308 3]

Avoid Federal brass. I occasionally got case head separations and messed up rims from the extractor on new factory ammo so I stopped shooting it. Some kind of improvised port buffer should help as well.

[Vermiform 26]

I know this is such a subjective question because the answer would depend on the quantity and quality of supplies that you buy, so forgive me: What would be the avereage cost per 308 round after you get up and running? Ballpark.........

[DocV 0]

I know this is such a subjective question because the answer would depend on the quantity and quality of supplies that you buy, so forgive me: What would be the avereage cost per 308 round after you get up and running? Ballpark.........

 

I was aiming for (pun unintentional) about 25 to 35 cents per round if I have to buy brass. ( About 18 cents per round if I can keep scavenging Lake City brass at work. ) That seems to be about what the cost of surplus ammo is running right now, so I think its a better value. I may be wrong. Experts out there?

 

DocV

[ddhotbot 0]

if you buy surplus powder and bullets you can cut your cost way down.pats reloading and hi-tech ammo are 2 places too check for surplus.i have done buisness with both and they are great people.i am using wc-844 and wc-846 powder for my .223 and 308.this is the actual military powder used by the army.you can get 500 150gr 30cal bullets for $35.the powder runs about $100 for 8lbs.hope this helps don

[Nanuk 0]

I also did a quick analysis of reloading cost. Considering that I was buying virgin brass to start with, surplus or wolf was a little cheaper. Once I was reloading fired brass it became a lot cheaper. I also had a lot of bullets on hand that I used in my 30-06. If I had a better bullet puller I would scavange some bullets from my 30-06 loads.

[Tokageko 8]

DocV: The first thing that comes to mind regarding training drills is a pretty old one. You set a dime flat on the top of the front sight (or elsewhere), then practice your trigger squeeze. Repeat until you can consistently get all the way through the trigger squeeze without the dime falling. As for reloading, loads that work well in the M14 seem to work just as well in my saiga. We use alot of IMR 4065 and 4895. The best surplus I ever used was Aussie, which had a lighter than average (at the bottom of NATO tolerances) bullet. Any "match" type bullet seem to perform well. Of course, you'll want to check to see if there's anyplace that the inside of the forearm in contacting the barrel. You might try trimming the gas-block retaining pin and removing the ... "hooked thingy" that it attaches to on the inside of the forearm. You'll want to be certain that you have a tight fit at the receiver, so the forearm doesn't move around on you. Bedding compund may be neccessary, but I kind of doubt it. Either way, that would "free-float" the barrel. If you decide to polish the FCG: use a stone, use even pressure, and push in the same direction that the surface will be moving (against the other polished surface).

 

That's all for now.

[DocV 0]

Thanks for all the tips. The FCG is polished and is very smooth (and safe. I checked, double checked, and checked again).

 

My wife was a little concerned when she found me prone-d out on the floor trying to balance the dime... To her credit, her only question was, "Did you clear the chamber?" She's a keeper.

Edited April 11, 2007 by DocV