Trigger guard question

[1st Ranger 0]

I am going to start collecting all the parts necessary to convert my S12, including all the 922r compliance parts, in case the AWB really does die this month. My questions are:

 

1: What type of trigger guard will work on the S12 once the pistol grip is installed? Will just any AK trigger guard and magazine release work, or is there a specific type that I will need?

 

2: If the trigger guard will work, will I still need to use a different magazine release?

 

KVAR has a trigger guard set for sale, will this work?

http://www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=216&1=254&3=350

 

Thanks for the info gents.

 

1st

[AKATTACK 5]

1st Ranger, you must have read my mind! I've had the exact same question. I looked at the trigger quard sets at K-VAR and their website says that the AK-74 guards are "sold-out". On the original Saiga shotguns, the front part of trigger guard is cut off and is attached with only 2 rivets instead of the usual 4 on the front of the guard. I think that the front part of the guard, the part that is cut-off and discarded is the only place that the AKM and AK-74 guards are different, so therefore, an AKM guard would be OK to use. I'm thinking that the AK-74 and AKM trigger guards are slightly dimensionally different so that even when they are mounted on dimensionally duplicate receivers, the differences in the trigger guards are so that only corresponding magazines will fit in each rifle. I'm going to do some checking and see if I can confirm this. Maybe someone else knows and will chime in here. AKATTACK

[hartzpad 0]

I plan to reuse the original Saiga 12 trigger guard and drill a hole in the receiver to mount the front end using a pop rivet, the rear will most likely be attached with either a pop rivet or just a machine screw. I've thought about the K-var guards, but I think that my method will work just fine and will be cheaper.

 

The only hard part I'm anticipating in converting my Saiga 12 is getting the bolt hold open to work with the U.S. made FCG and cutting a square hole for the pistol grip nut if there isn't one already there (which is very likely). I think to get the bolt hold open to work I'll have to grind down the sides of the hammer to make it slimmer so that it can fit with the bolt hold open device.

 

The only other problem is that the disconnector spring in the stock FCG must be reused with the new FCG (which doesn't come with one) and the spring may be too large in diameter to fit in the new FCG. I have heard that the Saiga .308's have this problem when being converted.

 

I tried to start a thread on all the aspects of converting a Saiga 12 ("OK, let's get ready to convert"), but the thread was hijacked and no one gave any useful advice.

[Bvamp 604]

a lot of hijacking goes on in here. sorry if i contributed to it. if you guys REALLY want to convert over, just go get an AMD parts kit and use those parts. they go for like 120 bucks and have all the furniture, springs, blah blah, just no receiver or sear. considering that route myself if i do decide to convert over. I dont think im going to though. if it becomes legal to do to saiga 12's, i will just go buy a new one made that way at the factory. why have one when you can have two?

[1st Ranger 0]

BVAMP,

I agree that a factory Saiga 12 with PG would be the best alternative, hands down, but I dout that we'll see any due to the whole 922r thing and the fact that even though the AWB will expire, the import ban on assault rifles will not. I think that the best we can hope for is that some enterprising individual or company will do the conversion once they're in country, kinda like Century does with the Romy AKs.

I was really hoping that some of you 12C owners might chime in and describe the trigger guard and magazine release. Here's what I have seen and why I'm thinking that a standard AK trigger guard won't work w/o modification:

1: The top edge of the magazine release does not sit flush with the outside bottom of the reciever like it does on an AK, it actually sits a fair amount up inside the magazine well. To compensate for this, a relief was cut into the reciever.

2: Because of this difference, a standard trigger guard will place the magazine release too high and the magazine won't be propperly seated in the well. So I'm thinking its a NO-GO.

 

One possible modification is to disregard the magazine release pin hole that may or may not already be in place and drill a new one for use with the the Saiga magazine release. What do you guys think?

 

Thanks for the replies. Keep em coming.

[AKATTACK 5]

1st Ranger, look closely at this photo of an original Saiga 12, it belongs to a fellow member of this board, he's a law enforcement officer. Take note of how the trigger guard is made and placed. The mag release is left as it is on our Saigas, the trigger guard has been modified whereas the mag release has been cut-off and discarded and a selector stop has been cut and they are riveted on with only 2 rivets instead of 4. This is how I am planning on modifying a trigger guard and selector stop when I convert. Anyone know of any reason why this wouldn't work? AKATTACK

Edited September 4, 2004 by AKATTACK

[hartzpad 0]

1st Ranger, maybe I'm not reading your post right, but if you look at a Saiga 12 trigger guard the way it is meant to be on a pistol grip Saiga 12, you will notice that the mag release does not even touch the front mount of the trigger guard like it does on most AKs, it is separate.

 

As you can see, the Saiga 12 uses a trigger guard that only uses 2 rivets to mount in front instead of the 4 rivets that you show. This allows it to not interfere with the mag release lever.

[AKATTACK 5]

hartzpad, thanks for the excellent picture!!!, I needed that. You can see how the trigger guard is made much better than in the picture I posted. With that in mind, does anyone see any problem with fabricating a trigger guard from an AK trigger guard from K-VAR? Here's a pic of how one could be modified.

[rock47 1]

I think you are onto it!

 

I have read that the trigger gaurd is considered in the Assault weapons parts count, if this is so, then I HIGHLY RECOMEND building your own trigger gaurd, stamping it and calling it a US PART to cooperate with the FEDs and keep your parts count up, this may allow you to use Hi-caps, folders or some other Russian part that you think that would make your Saiga more interesting, ie. Russian origianl Saiga pistol grip.

 

Making your own trigger gaurd is simple, Hatzpads idea is a excellent suggestion and works great, you can never tell it was moved forward that couple of inches when you are done. But making your own trigger gaurd is probably the very best of two worlds, economical and legality compliant.

 

Great succes to you.

[inparidel 4]

The easiest thing to do in the PG conversion is to recycle your original trigger guard. I have seen web pics of the deal. From what I understand, removing the rivets and replaceinthe them with screws is how it can be done. In fact, it looked as if the cover plate that now hides the original trigger slot can be slotted to fit around the mag release and drilled in the spot weld for a machine screw and nut. The backside looked as if it was drilled and machine screwed as well.

 

The rub: The US parts count must be observed. If you add a US stock (1), PG (1), FCG ( 3 parts), that's 5, which would be enough to reduce the number of imported parts on any standard AK to 10. However, if you have the Siaga with a threaded barrel and a muzzle attachment (usually a cylinder bore "choke"), then you have another part from the BATFE list on the gun to remove from somewhere.

 

You could remove the muzle attachment and put something over the threads (metric) to protect them. The gas piston is a common swap-out for AKs, but the Saiga has an unusual piston tht is not manufactured in the US to my knowledge.

 

So, I'm thinking that if the Muzzle attachment stays on, then it's the trigger guard that is the next best option. It is really only a simple strap of steel (not that hard really). A strap of US steel can easily be bent to fit and machine screwed on. I like my muzzle attahment because it looks cool and I have modified it with teardrop side-ports and top ports to be a fairly effective compensator, so I'm looking t the trigger guard.

 

I hope this helps.

[1st Ranger 0]

AKATTACK and hartzpad,

Thank you both for the great picures, that's exactly what I was hopeing to get! I hadden't noticed tha the trigger guard was seperated from the magazine release. Poor attention to detail on my part. Thanks again gents!

Being able to use the origonal TG would be much easier, for me at least, since I have an older S12 without the BHO and muzzle attachment.

Edited September 4, 2004 by 1st Ranger

[TapperMan 0]

Trigger guards are not countable parts. Trigger housings (like the lower receiver on an FAL) are.

[kmoore 3]

Trigger guards are not countable parts. Trigger housings (like the lower receiver on an FAL) are.

 

I wondered about this too. For further "evidence" look at the link AKATTACK recently shared. copy of atf letter listing saiga shotgun parts counts

[houtexgunner 0]

hartzpad,

Do you have anymore pics of the LEO saiga12 from the above post???

Maybe a birdseye view and a view from the other side(selector side)?

It would be cool if you did.

TIA!