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Oh Boy,dont want to stir things up,but its being advertised.


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Mods,if this isnt wanted here please delete.Not ment to stir up anything but since i got the info from another board and its out there being advertised and may effect us all here it is.Lets keep everything civil please.

 

http://www.wraithmaker.com/

It's about time someone did it I seen them advertise at Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot

sells for $319, 19+1 capacity and is machined aluminum. No cheap plastic products there.

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I may be the odd man out, but it looks big, heavy, and hard to control to me. The mounting looks a little makeshift too. Don't get me wrong, it took more innovation than I've got in me, but it doesn't look like a refined product yet.

I hope that this isn't Mike D's, regardless it was a poor choice of names if you don't want to draw attention.

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OK NOW!

 

Why isn't anyone bashing this one like the drum which was posted earlier?

 

I don't really care one way or the other as long as it's legal, with communist party possibly coming to office soon our freedoms will be stripped away anyhow, but the last time this subject was posted there was great opposition to it..

 

Just Curious!

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OK NOW!

 

Why isn't anyone bashing this one like the drum which was posted earlier?

 

I don't really care one way or the other as long as it's legal, with communist party possibly coming to office soon our freedoms will be stripped away anyhow, but the last time this subject was posted there was great opposition to it..

 

Just Curious!

 

post-1914-1176686153.gif

Personally I think its the wrong "button" to push right now, but somebody out there sees a market and will exploit it only time will tell if it will doom the market

Edited by scoutjoe
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Why isn't anyone bashing this one like the drum which was posted earlier?

 

...but the last time this subject was posted there was great opposition to it..

 

 

There may still be opposition to come. That's why most of the comments are small talk.

 

I'm not trying to get anyone in hot water, but you can bet the "powers that be" will notice that last time and this time, it was posted on a Sunday afternoon.

Edited by busy_squirrel
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Well I hope he makes a lot of money, because if he causes me to lose my shotgun I will be suing him.

 

I would like to own one but until he can show me that it is legal I won't touch it and I hope no one else does either.

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Are the shells visible just to show off design? Are the shells just around the perimeter? Yeah it seems big and IMHO kind of impractical but kudos on kool. If it is 300 + too cool for me especially if there is any taint attached. Real mad max stuff there.

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Well I hope he makes a lot of money, because if he causes me to lose my shotgun I will be suing him.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. How will his actions cause you to lose your shotgun? Even if the ATF reclassified the S12 as a destructive device, it isn't his fault. It's theirs. Do you even see how fucked up your logic is?

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Interesting and ingenious... but that's all. But I think for my use too big, ungainly, bulky, clumsy, heavy, slow to reload. Tactically, I wouldn't want to be burdened with this toy if I was fighting for my life.

 

Oh, and don't equate communism with totalitarianism anymore than capitalism is democracy. I think you're mixing your economic and political systems there.

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Well I hope he makes a lot of money, because if he causes me to lose my shotgun I will be suing him.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. How will his actions cause you to lose your shotgun? Even if the ATF reclassified the S12 as a destructive device, it isn't his fault. It's theirs. Do you even see how fucked up your logic is?

 

It was his actions that brought it about. The way I see it is that he failed to research the effects his product had on the legal standing of a product. If I came up with a product that compromised the legal standing of the item it was designed for I could be sued, there was a guy that made a program for grand theft auto that would cause the game to display pornographic images, when it was discovered every game was pulled off store shelves because the game was now MA rated instead of M, the game maker sued the programmer that made the add-on program and won.

 

Same thing here, his actions could result in me losing my property through his negligence.

 

How about if I made a program that would allow every Ipod to say access all the files at the FBI and because the program was online they could not be sure that they got it all, so they confiscate every Ipod in the US. Would I be open to a lawsuit from Ipod owners? I think so

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Interesting and ingenious... but that's all. But I think for my use too big, ungainly, bulky, clumsy, heavy, slow to reload. Tactically, I wouldn't want to be burdened with this toy if I was fighting for my life.

 

Oh, and don't equate communism with totalitarianism anymore than capitalism is democracy. I think you're mixing your economic and political systems there.

 

it will only cost $20 to fill with 00 buck of quality

but will be convenient to hold off the commies when they come to take it

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I got the same sheet at Knob and stood and talked to the guy. If you go to the sight notice the Patent Pending part and also just to be curious I asked him what the ATF had to say about it. He told me, as of now, it is not being looked at negatively, but if a change were to be made it would be done like a suppressor is to a pistol/rifle. The reason it is as big as it is, from what I remember him saying, is that the center piece rides on a sealed bearing so that if feeds flawlessly and the open design was to cut back on what weight they could. I plan on calling them Monday because these guys are only an hour from me and I want to see it in person and use it in an IPSC competition if I can work it out with them.

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OK NOW!

 

Why isn't anyone bashing this one like the drum which was posted earlier?

 

I don't really care one way or the other as long as it's legal, with communist party possibly coming to office soon our freedoms will be stripped away anyhow, but the last time this subject was posted there was great opposition to it..

 

Just Curious!

 

Im sure it will,most all know what went down before and the possible consequences of this being brought to market. Before it came across as an ideal that was in the planning stage,it was never actualy seen and the maker at first came out rip roaring.Now theres an actual product being advertised,talked about on other boards and sold (as stated above at the Creek) I think its a different ball game now,the dirty deed is done.I think/hope we can have a civil discussion.

Edited by Pointer
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Like I said I will call tommorow.....I am a newbie as some of you like to put it, but guns are my biggest hobby. I plan to actually lay my hands on this product within a week or so and I will make a post when I do.

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Well if its all on the level and ATF approved I would think about buying one if it was not to much money.

 

But if it's not OKed by the blue shirt alphabet boys I will not touch it even if it was free.

 

 

Please tell me what federal restrictions are on US made (magazine-type) high-capacity feeding devices, where they would require ATF approval?

I am dying to know :lol:

 

 

I know USAS shotguns are DD's, but I didn't know the mags for it were also restricted. Boy, am I dumb.

Edited by snoopdogg
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A few thoughts...

 

1) IF (that's a big IF) the ATF makes some sort of ruling on it that is "semi" kind and makes it a stamp for the DRUM and NOT make the S12 a Destructive Device... I would want exact, precise, and verification prior to making any such investment.

 

2) the investment... $319 ..... Bullshit. To me, in my opinion, the cost is outrageous. Keep in mind that you (if the BATF is kind) will have to pay another $200 stamp for the mag. Of course, all this depends on knowing -for certain- what their EXACT stance will be on this.

It should be based on material, labor, shipping, licensing etc. Seems like gouging for Research and Development costs. Just sell me the spec. sheet template plans for do-it-yourself. Sorry, $519 +/- is far too high for any drum. Even for me.

 

3) practical? Having 1 in the gun for the first "load" would be ok. More than one? Well, I can't see it being practical. For example, in my right hip pouch (like a dump pouch size) I hold 6 of the 10 round AGP mags. I also "can" carry another 4 mags on my left side as well if I wanted. The mere size of this thing would probably take that pouch all by itself. ... Hmm, 19 rounds or 60 in the same amount of space -let alone assortment of ammo type benefits.

....So having "1" I could see.

 

4) Durability. Looks pretty darn solid. I would hope so too. If in a "SHTF" situation, I use the Russian mag change technique. Basically for those who don't know, its when you take the new mag out and "swipe" it forward knocking the empty mag out and then rock and lock the new one in....its real real fast -Especially on an AK-74 (and if you place a tracer at the 5th round, you know to swipe it out....just the change happens and you don't have to rack the bolt again). ANYWAY.... kicking that thing out in a hurry will mean its taking a digger. A mag can take it, and most other "drums" can too...I would hope this one can.

(Side note: "mags" are seen as disposable and not something to constantly placing into an actual dump pouch...while you're fumbling, Im "firing" -hence the technique is effective).

 

5) 3 inch shells. Well that sucks overall. Hopefully there will be a 2 3/4 version. Simply put, there's distinct advantages for both. Availability, cost, variety and effectiveness generally trends towards the 2 3/4 in my opinion though.

 

 

 

 

Overall, mixed feelings on it. There's a lot of unknowns there. I would say that IF they work with the ATF and can "only" sell it just like how other places sell siliencers (they wait for your Form 4 etc etc before they ship to your FFL only etc etc....stuff like that), then that adds clout to verification that its going through "acknowledged" channels -to some extent. The LAST thing anyone wants is a "well lookie what we have here Cleatus.... do you have a stamp for that silencer? Of course you do...Well do you have a stamp for this HI CAP DRUM? Looks like its over 5 (or 10 whatever) to me there fella, hands on the car please".

**Sad part is my bail (or bond) would probably be less than the drum as well lol.

 

Like I said. Mixed thoughts. Gouged price too (let alone knowing that it "might" mean another $200 more on top of it). I mean really, "$519+/-" could mean another 10 AGP mags (2 more pouches worth to me) or even another S12 and its conversion (self) -or another set of mags for it. Compared it to 19 rounds? A bit "high" for me I think on several important issues (cost only being 1 of them) -mainly #3 and #4 though. Because what matters is what will save your life -not how evil you look on the range. Ever have a bad feed? Much easier to remove a "mag" and lose the deformed shell casing and lock in again.

 

 

~S

Edited by whatmanual
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Well I hope he makes a lot of money, because if he causes me to lose my shotgun I will be suing him.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. How will his actions cause you to lose your shotgun? Even if the ATF reclassified the S12 as a destructive device, it isn't his fault. It's theirs. Do you even see how fucked up your logic is?

 

It was his actions that brought it about. The way I see it is that he failed to research the effects his product had on the legal standing of a product. If I came up with a product that compromised the legal standing of the item it was designed for I could be sued, there was a guy that made a program for grand theft auto that would cause the game to display pornographic images, when it was discovered every game was pulled off store shelves because the game was now MA rated instead of M, the game maker sued the programmer that made the add-on program and won.

 

Same thing here, his actions could result in me losing my property through his negligence.

 

How about if I made a program that would allow every Ipod to say access all the files at the FBI and because the program was online they could not be sure that they got it all, so they confiscate every Ipod in the US. Would I be open to a lawsuit from Ipod owners? I think so

 

rofl. You are going to get laughed out of court.

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This thing looks like when its full it will be heavier than the gun itself. Way too expensive too, especially if you will need a stamp. I think Ill wait and see what Mike D comes up with.

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