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MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Magazine, information thread


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Everything is set up to start excepting orders for our first run production. Start time is 08-15 at 7:00PM Eastern Time at www.mdarms.com. Please take this time to register your account with us and read all the information on the site. First run orders will require a 50% deposit. I had the restriction on hotmail and gmail addresses removed.

 

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Please read post # 430 in this thread for most resent update. Thanks!

Video link: http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=hellyeahdrum

 

First off I want to thank Makc and the forum.

 

Second, this thread is for technically questions and such... I hope that neither the supporters or opposers will stray this thread. Maybe another thread can support the debate. Please don't state threats and such here.

 

After the unexpected announcement of the wraithmaker I have been caught with my pants half down. The mold shop is already working on the project. I called a meeting with them after the announcement of the other. Today I was told that the production phase should start in 8 to 10 weeks. So far everything is on schedule for production. It would place it at late June to early July as I originally stated. But I will say 12 weeks from now to allow for unexpected delays if any. How I got caught unprepared is not having a website yet. I have put this at a top priority and should have a operational site in around a week (i have been told by who will make it). The site will be pretty basic at first just to get it out there, but will be expanded later. Plans for the site will eventually include pics, video, a link to a secure order forum for card orders and information on how to mail in orders. Also I don't have a "patent" or "patent pending" yet so I don't want to expose pics of it just yet. I hope to have a patent pending in 2 or 3 weeks. I do have one video where I load, insert, and hand cycle the mag where the drum is covered up by a plastic bag. Some of you might have seen it.

 

Next big thing. As of right now the drum will only hold 2 3/4. I know both would be better but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible. If I get enough input on how important or unimportant this is to people I might be able to work in 3inch as well. I have a week or 2 before it will have to stay 2 3/4. If I decide to try for 3inch as well I will have to have a prototype made first to test function. It would add about 2 weeks to time before production. I thought that most would only or primarily be using 2 3/4, but admit that the option of both would be real nice. I would just hate for it not to work out and be a few $1000 in the hole and a few weeks behind schedule to find out. Let me know what you think and how important it is to you.

 

Size, weight , and profile. From the pics I've seen of the other I can tell that mine is smaller and without a doubt lighter. Empty, mine weighs in at 1lbs. 9ozs., loaded with regular Wal-Mart cheap stuff it weighs right at 3lbs. 7ozs. If you measure from the back of a factory 5rd mag, my drum is only 1.5 inches longer. My mag sits as close as possible to the receiver as well. It is also centered under the receiver for better balance. It is not off to the side like a snail type mag or anything.

 

Material. It will be made from a glass filled nylon. the back cover will be clear polycarbonate (I think that is what the shop called it).

 

Mechanics. It will be a rotary type feed like the others. The body will be solid, unlike the other. From messing with the system, I don't think it would take much at all to disrupt the feed of a open rotary feed. Such as twigs and such getting in there. Mine is completely closed to prevent this.

 

Price. I estimate that the price will be around $200. Still not sure yet. Still waiting to receive some quotes on spring cost and a couple other components.

 

Shipping time from production start. After production starts shipping should come very quick. Most of the work in my design is being done before hand. Once they are being squirted they will be made a lot faster than working metal by CNC. I should be able to stay on top of orders once production starts, hopefully. I don't know now just how many of these people will be demanding.

 

Placing orders. I might do a preorder thing similar to the other. But in this thread please don't state "I'll take x amounts". I would like to keep this particular thread to questions. If you like, someone can start another thread for this. It would help with predetermining how many I should run for a first batch. If you do post in such a thread, please make sure that one has not been created already so we don't have a hundred "I'll take" threads. Also please think rationally as to how many you want and intend to buy to keep me with a more accurate number. I was also thinking of putting a limit to the number one person can order off the first batch to help get them in more peoples hands. Say maybe 5 per person. But if your a dealer and you truely want a larger number, please state first how many you would like for personally use and then state how many you would like to stock. If such a thread is started please note that it WILL NOT constitute a place in line. Once I start taking true orders the position in line will start. If we do this right we can eliminate a lot of the back order waiting game we saw with the AGP 10rd mag so people don't need to worry to much about being left out. I will notify people when I'm taking true orders. May be a week, may be a month. I am going to try to get orders started as soon as possible. I just need a system set up to do the line positioning for me rather than trying to do this myself through comparing sent email times and such.

 

I'm sure there is a lot I want to go over still, but it has been a very long 2 days since I came here yesterday and heard of the others announcement. I need to try and relax a little tonight. I will probably not be back to answer questions until tomorrow evening. Let me know your questions. Again, please keep this thread for questions and don't turn it into a battlefield. I will not comment to such here (or in other threads for that matter ). If you want to speak out against it please use or start another thread. MikeD :super:

Edited by Mike Davidson
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Does your design provide a way for end users to open it up to say clean and lube the inside?

Yes, the insides will be easy to get to. I also plan to provide an instruction sheet for disassembly and reassembly. It is very simple.

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Regarding the issue of 2 3/4" vs 3", my personal use would seldom involve the loading of 3" rounds. However, if a decently designed mag was released (by any vendor) that would reliably feed both sizes, I'd definitely buy the mag which feeds both. On that note, I'd encourage you to handle both sizes to maintain a competive advantage over wraithmaker and whoever else may enter the market. ...it's only a matter of time before a third or maybe even a fourth player are revealed.

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Regarding the issue of 2 3/4" vs 3", my personal use would seldom involve the loading of 3" rounds. However, if a decently designed mag was released (by any vendor) that would reliably feed both sizes, I'd definitely buy the mag which feeds both. On that note, I'd encourage you to handle both sizes to maintain a competive advantage over wraithmaker and whoever else may enter the market. ...it's only a matter of time before a third or maybe even a fourth player are revealed.

Originally I was planning on getting the 2 3/4 only out and test one for both later. I might reconsider this though.

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Short profile, 20 rounds, only takes 2 3/4", black with a clear back, can be disassembled... Sounds exactly like all the best features of a USAS-12 drum.

 

I am perfectly happy ONLY having it run 2 3/4", and like the clear back drums I have now so that feature sounds ideal. Groovy (times two ;) ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alex

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i personally would ony use 2 3/4 rounds in it mike... it is a fun thing in my eyes

3 inch would cost a stack of cash to use

This is exactly the way I saw it as well.

Got to concur with the above as I've never put a 3" through mine. Having said that if there was the choice of a 2 3/4 or a

3 + 2 3/4 I'd probably go for the one that took both.

 

Not sure about only fun use though as I'd really like to try on on IPSC against the big tube fed mags.

 

Be interesting to compare as with just a little bit of luck my 10 rounders should be here on Tuesday so having the choice of 5, 8, 10 or 20 or any combination thereof before starting a stage should make life VERY interesting.

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Sup Mike, You said you had a video floating around somewhere. And do you have any pictires to hold us down? I'll take two. Than you very much. Can't wait.

:rolleyes: I wish people would read threads STARTING AT THE BEGINNING! It would keep problems down to a minimum and help reverse the popular opinion that every thread at Saiga-12.com starts with one thing and branches out in all directions till it totally loses all meaning and turns into a flamefest!

 

Dude he said this is NOT and I'l take it thread. He also said he was building a website for hosting the videos and taking orders. What part of that don't you understand? :unsure: I read it last night, or very early this morning actually, and I managed to remember that part...

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I think it sounds perfect! The ability to handle 3" shells would be nice, but I also consider this a "fun-gun" accessory as opposed to something tactically effective and would therefore rarely need to use 3" shells. I think I asked this somewhere else, but will a stock fold with the mag loaded?

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Between 2 /34 and 3 inch shells well not all 2 3/4 are the same legnth so there needs to be some tollerances because brand "a" shells and "b" shells are not the same size. Got to run

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Mike,so have you done much testing for function other than hand cycling? Sounds like you got the design worked out.Oh,and i have to complement you on being/sounding more proffesional,i think it will go a long ways selling your product..... there wasnt one cuss word in your post :devil::D

Edited by Pointer
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Between 2 /34 and 3 inch shells well not all 2 3/4 are the same legnth so there needs to be some tollerances because brand "a" shells and "b" shells are not the same size. Got to run

Topmaul and Wakal voiced my opinion. Thanks y'all!

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Personaly I'd release the 2 3/4 as is. The only competiton is in the less plinkable 3" and more expensive to buy and fill. You should look into adding 3" capability after you've sold a gross or turned a profit or some similar landmark. I seem to remember you being "all in" on this project so why not start recouping that asap? The other thing I'd say is that what will help sell your mags are demo videos where you abuse the thing and it keeps going, and where you load it up with random brands and sources of shells to show it can work with a wide variety of shells. If it can't do those things, well... make it look pretty and pump the soundtrack from the matrix in the background (and best of luck with that :eek: ).

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If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait.

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I'll buy a 2-3/4" drum-- I figure it will help defray the R&D expenses, and I want one soon. When they become available I will buy a 3" drum as well, possibly more than one.

 

I plan on buying one of the other drums as well-- they just look so Borg-- but I will need to beef up my credit card a bit first.

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Sup Mike, You said you had a video floating around somewhere. And do you have any pictires to hold us down? I'll take two. Than you very much. Can't wait.

:rolleyes: I wish people would read threads STARTING AT THE BEGINNING! It would keep problems down to a minimum and help reverse the popular opinion that every thread at Saiga-12.com starts with one thing and branches out in all directions till it totally loses all meaning and turns into a flamefest!

 

Dude he said this is NOT and I'l take it thread. He also said he was building a website for hosting the videos and taking orders. What part of that don't you understand? :unsure: I read it last night, or very early this morning actually, and I managed to remember that part...

oops! Your right. I got really exited and didn't read the whole thing. Sorry.

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I imagine most would be content with one cycling 2 3/4 but....don't some of the Tromix shorties require the more powerful 3" to function reliably?

 

...oh, and hurry on that patent...

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Edited by KySoldier
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Originally I was planning on getting the 2 3/4 only out and test one for both later. I might reconsider this though.

There's now a race to market, so stick with your original plan. The risk factor of trying to accommodate both is too high. Better to have one that you know works than be waiting on one that might not.

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It would be great if they were built like the Chinese AK drum mags. They would open from the back and could be loaded with the cover open.

 

Would have a button on them so you could release the spring tension for better reliability.

 

They would have a mechanism on the back of the drum to rewind the spring.

This would truly be ideal.

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