MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Magazine, information thread

[avatar 4]

Joe Baby, please wait to trash Mike until the debut date comes. Seems kinda pointless if you don't give him a chance to back up what he says.

 

This was the Q? answering thread right? Q: If I'm using your drum, it is loaded and drop it from say waist height will it survive the fall? I can only afford one so my main concern is durability.

 

As for 2 3/4 or 3" -- 2 3/4 should be just fine for a "combat/MOUT" situation. 20 3" mags? I don't really see the point. A 500lb Zombie moves slow enough to switch to a special purpose mag.

 

 

After seeing your prototype pic gotta admit I interested.

[MikeD 541]

Joe Baby, please wait to trash Mike until the debut date comes. Seems kinda pointless if you don't give him a chance to back up what he says.

 

This was the Q? answering thread right? Q: If I'm using your drum, it is loaded and drop it from say waist height will it survive the fall? I can only afford one so my main concern is durability.

 

As for 2 3/4 or 3" -- 2 3/4 should be just fine for a "combat/MOUT" situation. 20 3" mags? I don't really see the point. A 500lb Zombie moves slow enough to switch to a special purpose mag.

 

 

After seeing your prototype pic gotta admit I interested.

My guess is it will handle being droped just fine. Once they are in production I plan to destroy some to see what they will take. I might even do a side by side torture test comparison with the other design.

[scoutjoe 276]

Once they are in production I plan to destroy some to see what they will take.

 

 

Some people may be up in arms about the destruction of said item

 

I though am with a pervious poster, I'll probally only be able to afford 1, so I'd like it to be better built than that silly Knoxx nlfd thingy

Edited April 22, 2007 by scoutjoe

[mccumber1916 1]

Once they are in production I plan to destroy some to see what they will take.

 

 

Some people may be up in arms about the destruction of said item

 

I though am with a pervious poster, I'll probally only be able to afford 1, so I'd like it to be better built than that silly Knoxx nlfd thingy

 

i think the kid is taking his gaming a little too seriously

[Bvamp 604]

Im trying to figure out why joe hilarious is attacking mike d, here, exactly.

[joehilarious 0]

Im trying to figure out why joe hilarious is attacking mike d, here, exactly.

 

I have not attacked Mike D. As far as I see it Mike D. did not like the points I brought up with the already to market Wraithmaker. (Working Prototype, Live Fire Video and website already in existance. )So rather than a discussion I have been insulted, my heritage questions and an inordinant amount of profanity has been directed my way. As far as I see it, everything posted is saying it will be this way, and it will do this, and It will do that. The BS is getting pretty deep. Mike has committed that he will be shipping by July 20th. I dont think there is a chance in hell that it will happen. This is only my opinion. As far as I can see this discussion forum seems to be an unwelcome area for newcomers or people stating opposing opinions.

[K1196A 0]

I have not attacked Mike D. As far as I see it Mike D. did not like the points I brought up with the already to market Wraithmaker. (Working Prototype, Live Fire Video and website already in existance. )So rather than a discussion I have been insulted, my heritage questions and an inordinant amount of profanity has been directed my way. As far as I see it, everything posted is saying it will be this way, and it will do this, and It will do that. The BS is getting pretty deep. Mike has committed that he will be shipping by July 20th. I dont think there is a chance in hell that it will happen. This is only my opinion. As far as I can see this discussion forum seems to be an unwelcome area for newcomers or people stating opposing opinions.

 

Wilkipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

 

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, more often than not based on what they thought was said rather than what was actually said by the other person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is the forum or group's recognized and agreed upon power structure. To this extent, a troll does not necessarily have to make malicious or incorrect comments. For example, a person with political point of view A who approaches a forum frequented by people with political point of view B, may be considered a troll, even if no lies or attacks are made.

 

A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll. A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either with no particular motive or provocation in mind, other than to be purely destructive or if the motive or provocation is against the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, may be considered a troll.

 

[joehilarious 0]

This is the second time you have posted the information on what a troll is.

 

All I have stated my opinion, some people just can seem to accept the facts. Rather than discussion, it just gets deeper and deeper with the BS and then insults fly my way.

 

 

I am waiting for July 20th, I have marked my calendar I hardly can wait to see this drum in production!!!

[joehilarious 0]

Tag for updates.

I think the best name would be fp-20.

 

Not to be disrepectful to Mike D., but with all these things that "are going to be considered" in the design, there is no way this will be out in 8 to 12 weeks for production. I would think that one would need a prototype that could be tested for design concept. Also he could show us his prototype. There is an old proverb about a bird in hand being worth two in the bush. The Wraithmaker is available today and they have a video on youtube. It is in production and are currently taking orders. I think this drum on this thread will be at least 6 months off since all these new things are being considered. I believe the other product is real. Just look here :

 

 

I believe this product of Mike D's will be in time for when these animals come into season:

 

FYI.... This was the post that started it all

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[K1196A 0]

This is the second time you have posted the information on what a troll is.

 

All I have stated my opinion, some people just can seem to accept the facts. Rather than discussion, it just gets deeper and deeper with the BS and then insults fly my way.

 

 

I am waiting for July 20th, I have marked my calendar I hardly can wait to see this drum in production!!!

 

IS THE THIRD TIME THE CHARM THAT HELPS YOU GET THE HINT? Have you read it..........

 

PS -- the other guy's post was, in my opinion, equally pointless, but it wasn't his first day, he doesn't keep coming back to stir the pot, and all 12 of his posts weren't about this guy's drum. That has been your distinction troll!

 

Wilkipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

 

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, more often than not based on what they thought was said rather than what was actually said by the other person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is the forum or group's recognized and agreed upon power structure. To this extent, a troll does not necessarily have to make malicious or incorrect comments. For example, a person with political point of view A who approaches a forum frequented by people with political point of view B, may be considered a troll, even if no lies or attacks are made.

 

A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll. A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either with no particular motive or provocation in mind, other than to be purely destructive or if the motive or provocation is against the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, may be considered a troll.

 

Edited April 23, 2007 by K1196A

[joehilarious 0]

Nope....Three times did not work. I have read it. I am waiting till July 20th.....the commited date for this product to ship. Meanwhile.....back at the ranch.

 

 

Have a nice day!!!!!!

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Nope....Three times did not work. I have read it. I am waiting till July 20th.....the commited date for this product to ship. Meanwhile.....back at the ranch.

 

 

 

Have a nice day!!!!!!

Kindly give it a rest. Start another thread for your own device. Stop trying to advertise in this thread. Enough is enough.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[kmoore 3]

Nope....Three times did not work. I have read it. I am waiting till July 20th.....the commited date for this product to ship. Meanwhile.....back at the ranch.

 

 

 

Have a nice day!!!!!!

 

Joe, dude, whether you are trolling, or just stubborn because someone called you one, this constantly posting is over the top.

 

I've got a request for you, I'd love to know more about you. Are you new to boards, or do you frequent others. What's your user names if you are. What are your firearm interests? It would give you a little more cred as a non troll, and maybe clean up the WM name as well.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[MikeD 541]

Nope....Three times did not work. I have read it. I am waiting till July 20th.....the commited date for this product to ship. Meanwhile.....back at the ranch.

 

 

 

Have a nice day!!!!!!

Kindly give it a rest. Start another thread for your own device. Stop trying to advertise in this thread. Enough is enough.

If Joe Hilarious isn't the maker of the WM he is one of the biggest trolls I have ever seen.

If he is the maker, his attacks are surely reflecting his fear of my much better product. Every post he has made either put me and my design down or promoted the WM. I can't say for sure, but If I was to bet money on it, I would say he is the maker or an employee of WM.

I would be scared too if I was them. They no doubt see my product will be SERIOUS competition, if it doesn't out right put them out of buisness. Not my goal or anything, but it is what happens when something has as many advantages over the cometition and is cheaper too.

I'm trying to stick to my own here. I wish he could live and let live, as well. They already have enough disadvantage with their design vs. mine. If this continues, I'll have to declare them my enemy, and soon to follow, Mike and his gang will be back to doing what ever they were doing before they designed their drum. Please stop this , Joe. Don't you have enough to worry about with your design change on a product that is avaliable now but won't be shipped for 30 to 45 days? Give it a rest.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Joe you are not hilarious at all, in fact the only thing funny is that you can't seem to take a hint. Let me get this straight...you are offended by the free use of profanity, yet you choose to come here to a place where it runs rampant and argue like a retard with everyone who will take your bait. THAT IS TROLLING!

You say you have no connection with wraithmaker but everything you post makes it look to some people like you made the damn thing yourself and just want to pester the competition and make them look bad. If you doubt MD's word and don't believe the drum will be out by then than stop your FUCKING WHINING and put your money where your mouth is!

Challenge anyone who will take your bet and see who responds. THEN STFU AND WAIT TIL THE 20th to post again since that is the only thing around here you seem interested in! Don't expect me to bet though, because any fool in his right mind knows that nothing is guaranteed in the new products market and things usually take longer than planned with any new product or even your standard home construction project.

 

Take a peek at my avatar...not the snake, not the position of MODERATOR that I hold...the other title!

 

It says "Trollslayer" for a reason!

 

I fucking hate trolls! You people make my job harder and my blood pressure go up. I have the power to remove you for it!

 

DON'T PUSH YOUR LUCK!!!!!!

[MikeD 541]

Nope....Three times did not work. I have read it. I am waiting till July 20th.....the commited date for this product to ship. Meanwhile.....back at the ranch.

 

 

 

Have a nice day!!!!!!

 

Joe, dude, whether you are trolling, or just stubborn because someone called you one, this constantly posting is over the top.

 

I've got a request for you, I'd love to know more about you. Are you new to boards, or do you frequent others. What's your user names if you are. What are your firearm interests? It would give you a little more cred as a non troll, and maybe clean up the WM name as well.

I don't think he realizes he is giving himself another disadvantage. I don't think they have much firearm interest. None of them in their videos look like they are comfortable handling a firearm. He even admitted above that he didn't have much knowlegde in firearms and seemed really worried when I mentioned that the WM didn't seem to have been tested in a converted saiga. Oviously reflected in the stupid open design and originally picking a 3 inch only model. Anybody with just a little bit of firearm knowleage would have known better.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[MikeD 541]

Thanks Cobra.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I have been avoiding the "drum" issue almost completely after the fallout from my first weekend on the "job".

Just a "heads up" Joe, you now have my attention as well.

 

if the snakebite don't get you attention, (which it should), the Juggernaut will stamp you out.

 

I am all about people sharing a difference of opinion.

You seem to be attacking vs discussing.

 

let's keep it civil. fair enough?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

What I said JUST before the latest troll at S-12.com made his appearance...

"I don't care what it's called, I'll just be happy when the damned thing is out there! Maybe then all tyhe stupid arguing and bitching and moaning will stop around here.

 

Naa on second thought some of these argumentative bastards who call themselves members here, but don't even have the fortitude to donate a few dollars to the forum and try to do something good for a change, nor the sense to contribute anything other than trolling and acting like children every time they see a chance to jump into a conversation and try to make themselves look tough or smart at the expense of someone else....No these assholes will continually find something to run their mouths about and hide behind the bullshit title of the first amendment.

 

THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND BEING A COMPLETE AND TOTAL ASSHOLE.

 

wtf is a moderator to do?"

 

 

Then you said...

cobra, why are you carrying that whole ordeal into this thread?

 

I REST MY CASE!

[MikeD 541]

It is obvious my design has the WM by the balls . If they want, I can also squeeze and twist.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Mike you are not helping things by being so cocky.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

The consumer will be the ultimate judge of any and all firearms products. ~Nuff Said!

[MikeD 541]

Mike you are not helping things by being so cocky.

I'm not trying to be cocky. I haven't cussed them once. I also have repeatedly ask them nicely to stop what they are doing. I am doing my best not to explode. I will try to refrain from commenting to them anymore. I truely want this thread to get back on track. I don't want this thread in the dumpster.

[mccumber1916 1]

Im trying to figure out why joe hilarious is attacking mike d, here, exactly.

 

I have not attacked Mike D. As far as I see it Mike D. did not like the points I brought up with the already to market Wraithmaker. (Working Prototype, Live Fire Video and website already in existance. )So rather than a discussion I have been insulted, my heritage questions and an inordinant amount of profanity has been directed my way. As far as I see it, everything posted is saying it will be this way, and it will do this, and It will do that. The BS is getting pretty deep. Mike has committed that he will be shipping by July 20th. I dont think there is a chance in hell that it will happen. This is only my opinion. As far as I can see this discussion forum seems to be an unwelcome area for newcomers or people stating opposing opinions.

 

perhaps you missed the part where he was gonna do a vid... but assholes(myself being one of them)....bashed him for doing it altogether?

now he's not the only one making such an item...

why don't you call WM and hate on them some...

besides how does it hurt you if he doesn't succeed?... if you can't live without his that long get WM

[az_shootist 0]

Mike,

When the time comes to demonstrate the effectiveness of your system, have you considered requesting someone with a post-sample Saiga to do a few dumps in full auto? It's one thing (and obviously an important thing) to cycle reliably in semi, but I'd be very interested in knowing if it could keep up with the full auto rate of fire. Not to mention, it would also make a great demo video.

[MikeD 541]

Mike,

When the time comes to demonstrate the effectiveness of your system, have you considered requesting someone with a post-sample Saiga to do a few dumps in full auto? It's one thing (and obviously an important thing) to cycle reliably in semi, but I'd be very interested in knowing if it could keep up with the full auto rate of fire. Not to mention, it would also make a great demo video.

This is a copy of post #50. I know all the extra stuff going on in this thread is making it hard to find stuff.

 

Speed of feeding. I haven't been able to test it but plan to have a full auto owner see if it handles it. I am betting it will. Tony's FA model fires around 800 rpm. That is around 13.3 rounds per second. I have taken the feed lips off so the mag could dump and it will empty 20 rds in just under 1 second. Granted, this is the round coming straight up and out. It will no doubt add time by the round riding the feedlips out vs. straight out the top. But i think it will be within the time needed for reliable feed. I just have no way to test or measure it accurately right now.

[MikeD 541]

Im trying to figure out why joe hilarious is attacking mike d, here, exactly.

 

I have not attacked Mike D. As far as I see it Mike D. did not like the points I brought up with the already to market Wraithmaker. (Working Prototype, Live Fire Video and website already in existance. )So rather than a discussion I have been insulted, my heritage questions and an inordinant amount of profanity has been directed my way. As far as I see it, everything posted is saying it will be this way, and it will do this, and It will do that. The BS is getting pretty deep. Mike has committed that he will be shipping by July 20th. I dont think there is a chance in hell that it will happen. This is only my opinion. As far as I can see this discussion forum seems to be an unwelcome area for newcomers or people stating opposing opinions.

 

perhaps you missed the part where he was gonna do a vid... but assholes(myself being one of them)....bashed him for doing it altogether?

now he's not the only one making such an item...

why don't you call WM and hate on them some...

besides how does it hurt you if he doesn't succeed?... if you can't live without his that long get WM

There is a very good chance Joe Hilarious IS Wm. Maybe not, but a whole lot makes it look that way. If you view all his post, they all have links and good things to say about the WM and the very most bash me. I would bet money it is him. If it is, he is very unprofessional. All any has to do is read my post to see that I have been very calm with him.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Ok my 2 cents again...who cares anyway right?

 

Mike by being cocky, I meant continuing to argue and give the troll ammo, your last post before I said that was not the only nya nya sounding one in the thread IMO. I'm not trying to hassle ya bro take it easy.

 

Yeah post #50 repeat, was gonna say the same thing.

 

The whole argument about whether or not said troll is WM is childish speculation IMO. Somebody call the fuckers and ask geez!

Why does everything have to have all this drama?

 

BTW I think you meant "unprofessional didn't you?"

 

 

 

mccumber1916 I was the one that told Mike it would be wise to pull the vid...I don't consider myself an asshole thanks...

[joehilarious 0]

Im trying to figure out why joe hilarious is attacking mike d, here, exactly.

 

I have not attacked Mike D. As far as I see it Mike D. did not like the points I brought up with the already to market Wraithmaker. (Working Prototype, Live Fire Video and website already in existance. )So rather than a discussion I have been insulted, my heritage questions and an inordinant amount of profanity has been directed my way. As far as I see it, everything posted is saying it will be this way, and it will do this, and It will do that. The BS is getting pretty deep. Mike has committed that he will be shipping by July 20th. I dont think there is a chance in hell that it will happen. This is only my opinion. As far as I can see this discussion forum seems to be an unwelcome area for newcomers or people stating opposing opinions.

 

perhaps you missed the part where he was gonna do a vid... but assholes(myself being one of them)....bashed him for doing it altogether?

now he's not the only one making such an item...

why don't you call WM and hate on them some...

besides how does it hurt you if he doesn't succeed?... if you can't live without his that long get WM

There is a very good chance Joe Hilarious IS Wm. Maybe not, but a whole lot makes it look that way. If you view all his post, they all have links and good things to say about the WM and the very most bash me. I would bet money it is him. If it is, he is very unprofessional. All any has to do is read my post to see that I have been very calm with him.

 

I'm Back!. No I am not WM, nor am I a troll. I had to go out of town for a business meeting. But I am back now to see what I missed. I actually have talked with the WM guys also. They have answered some of my questions. I will be placing an order and waiting on Mike D.'s to ship.

[Pointer 21]

Lets just ignore Joe and he will disapear,its now clear what hes here for.So...how was everones day?