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MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Magazine, information thread


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Mike,

 

I'm sure glad you're doing this!! I'm curious if you kept the emails from the initial posting you made here (the bashing thread) from those of us who were interested?

 

Kind of a early purchasers list, from those of us who sent you emails?

Yes, I did keep a list and will guarantee you a spot in the first production. Thanks for your support from the beginning.

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mike, a DBA here costs less than 20 dollars and is a common form at the DMV. just a heads up. it can easily be seperated in taxes, and your consultant that you use shoudl have zero problems accomodating it into your tax returns yearly.

 

 

I will use this opportunity, to communicate, that this forum will NEVER share information with anyone that is personal in nature about ANYONE without a WARRANT.

 

mike D had asked for said troll's information, rightfully, to understand if he was dealing with his competition in some shape or form. we do not share this information, nor can anyone buy it from us.

 

even if we hate you personally, (mcuzi is a good example), we wont give out your personal information, for any reason, and in any detail.

 

I can assure you though, mike D, that this troll you had there, isnt in the same state (from where they call in, that is) as the wraithmaker product owner. i have that guy's phone # if you want it, though, and that is pub. info, not board data.

I am glad that the troll isn't the WM maker. It sure seemed as such. I never wanted personal info, just was curious as to the city and state the troll was transmitting from. The troll put the midwest as his location and the WM guys are in a midwest state. There was a lot pointing to it. I am relieved though and thanks for clearing it up for me. It seems that Joe is just your typical troll and will be ignored as such.

 

Yes I am in a different State (confusion mostly) than the wraithmaker guys. I have ordered a wraithmaker to see if it works just like in their live fire video. They tell me that my product will be shipping within 45 days, since there are orders ahead of mine. I ordered the 2 3/4 model which is ready now.

 

I am interested that someone has found my phone number and what state I am from. You guys are pretty clever, but I must admit the discussion in this thread has been interesting to follow. I still find it hard to believe that this product will ship by July 20th. There still seems to be alot of uncertainty of the feature set of this new product. All in all I think it is getting pretty deep in thread. So I went out and a bought these to wear

 

 

Nylon-Waders-HipA.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

Edited by Joe Hilarious
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Joe, I've asked kindly for you to quit Trolling.

I'm glad you bought some "Pants", sadly you do not ware the pants around here.

I DO, So Chill......

However, I would be very interested in finding out who contacted you concerning this thread.

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mike, a DBA here costs less than 20 dollars and is a common form at the DMV. just a heads up. it can easily be seperated in taxes, and your consultant that you use shoudl have zero problems accomodating it into your tax returns yearly.

 

 

I will use this opportunity, to communicate, that this forum will NEVER share information with anyone that is personal in nature about ANYONE without a WARRANT.

 

mike D had asked for said troll's information, rightfully, to understand if he was dealing with his competition in some shape or form. we do not share this information, nor can anyone buy it from us.

 

even if we hate you personally, (mcuzi is a good example), we wont give out your personal information, for any reason, and in any detail.

 

I can assure you though, mike D, that this troll you had there, isnt in the same state (from where they call in, that is) as the wraithmaker product owner. i have that guy's phone # if you want it, though, and that is pub. info, not board data.

I am glad that the troll isn't the WM maker. It sure seemed as such. I never wanted personal info, just was curious as to the city and state the troll was transmitting from. The troll put the midwest as his location and the WM guys are in a midwest state. There was a lot pointing to it. I am relieved though and thanks for clearing it up for me. It seems that Joe is just your typical troll and will be ignored as such.

 

Yes I am in a different State (confusion mostly) than the wraithmaker guys. I have ordered a wraithmaker to see if it works just like in their live fire video. They tell me that my product will be shipping within 45 days, since there are orders ahead of mine. I ordered the 2 3/4 model which is ready now.

 

I am interested that someone has found my phone number and what state I am from. You guys are pretty clever, but I must admit the discussion in this thread has been interesting to follow. I still find it hard to believe that this product will ship by July 20th. There still seems to be alot of uncertainty of the feature set of this new product. All in all I think it is getting pretty deep in thread. So I went out and a bought these to wear

 

 

Nylon-Waders-HipA.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

I said that they "should" be in production by the date you keep refering to. The mold shop said sooner, but like I said, I added a little time to theirs for any unexpected delays. Shipping should be very quick after production starts.

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All in all I think it is getting pretty deep in thread. So I went out and a bought these to wear

 

 

Nylon-Waders-HipA.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Perhaps the next time you're out shopping for yourself you could pick up one of these.....

250px-Knot-hangmans-noose.jpg

 

I'm sure you'd have no problems getting donations!

Edited by K1196A
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now that's funny!

 

With all the influx of trolls around here lately, maybe we need to stop slaying them and give them their own forum where they can happily fuck with each other?

 

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa...slaying is the best method for sure!

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Mike,

 

I'm sure glad you're doing this!! I'm curious if you kept the emails from the initial posting you made here (the bashing thread) from those of us who were interested?

 

Kind of a early purchasers list, from those of us who sent you emails?

Yes, I did keep a list and will guarantee you a spot in the first production. Thanks for your support from the beginning.

 

awe crap... that means i have to go to the back of the list... cuz i was a dick that time :o

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now that's funny!

 

With all the influx of trolls around here lately, maybe we need to stop slaying them and give them their own forum where they can happily fuck with each other?

 

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa...slaying is the best method for sure!

 

can a troll be locked out of all but the trash can?

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All in all I think it is getting pretty deep in thread. So I went out and a bought these to wear

 

 

Nylon-Waders-HipA.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Perhaps the next time you're out shopping for yourself you could pick up one of these.....

250px-Knot-hangmans-noose.jpg

 

I'm sure you'd have no problems getting donations!

 

lol... i'm broke and i'd pay for the thing by myself

k1196a... you crack me up... you are a role model

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Mike D, if you haven't chosen a name for the Drum yet, may I suggest The Bubba Bucket?

 

Among some of my early shooting friends, the name pertains to any large container holding a crap load of ammuntion, usually mixed. It's a happy name, meant for use between friends on a warm summer's day.

 

"Wraithmaker" is a very unhappy name, meant for something that produces a lot of roadkill.

 

"The Bubba Bucket" just puts a smile on your face. Imagine turning to your friend and saying, "Hey Jimmy, pass me the Bubba Bucket. I think that birch tree just insulted me."

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joe... are you interrested in buying a mike d drum?

A couple of answers to your many questions.

 

Yes I will be buying one of Mike D.'s drums when they are available and I can see a live fire video. I think his approach is a unique.

 

on how did I find this thread int his forum?....it was easy...... I was googling for the other product and about two links from the top it said ... "The Wraithmaker is not Mine". Google had found this forum and I naturally clicked on the link to figure out WTF was going on. It was another of Mikes Threads when the news first broke on the Wraithmaker. So I started reading and it all started from there.

 

 

I am not a troll, I am not a fanatic (Like the guy with the helmet on in front of his computer). I do Like the Saiga-12's, I like my others too, but I find these drums for the Saiga compelling. I want one.....no hold it.... I want two.... maybe more. I think it will be fun out at the range and will add a new dimesion when you come around the corner on an intruder with one of these things on the shotgun. I definately think 20 is better than four times five. I think this would be good for police also.

 

I wonder if you can make these things so they can hang on a belt, then you can walk with several ready to roll.

 

I am interested in how you figured out which state I am in. And how the hell did you guys figure out my phone number?. You guys are too much!!!

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I am interested in how you figured out which state I am in. And how the hell did you guys figure out my phone number?. You guys are too much!!!

The admins have the ability to see your IP address. A simple traceroute from there will give machine names of routers and the like. Often, DSL routes actually have the phone number associated with them in the machine name.

 

I'm not sure what techniques they used, but that's an example. There are lots of ways. The intartubes aren't as anonymous as you might think.

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Gawd, I'm glad I don't have to moderate here!

 

Mike, kudos to you for being persistant in trying to develop a product you believe in.

 

Cobra, kudos to you for trying to keep the peace and protect the forum.

 

Juggernaut, kudos to you for giving Joe several warnings instead of just banning his butt.

 

Joe, kudos to you for remaining relatively civil under fire.

 

I gotta say though, Joe, it does seem like you are trying to provoke fighting, and it seems like Mike (and several others) took the bait and got provoked. If this is your intent, I wish you'd just leave.

 

I am so torn on the idea of a drum mag. It seems like such a cool idea, but I can also see Nancy Pelosi salivating at the prospect of holding one up in front of cameras. I hope and pray that it doesn't speed the death of the S-12, or of this great forum...

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Gawd, I'm glad I don't have to moderate here!

 

Mike, kudos to you for being persistant in trying to develop a product you believe in.

 

Cobra, kudos to you for trying to keep the peace and protect the forum.

 

Juggernaut, kudos to you for giving Joe several warnings instead of just banning his butt.

 

Joe, kudos to you for remaining relatively civil under fire.

 

I gotta say though, Joe, it does seem like you are trying to provoke fighting, and it seems like Mike (and several others) took the bait and got provoked. If this is your intent, I wish you'd just leave.

 

I am so torn on the idea of a drum mag. It seems like such a cool idea, but I can also see Nancy Pelosi salivating at the prospect of holding one up in front of cameras. I hope and pray that it doesn't speed the death of the S-12, or of this great forum...

I admit I was provoked. But I feel I remained civil as well. I did argue back but just to defend myself (product) mostly. I forget how many times I offered my hand.

 

What got me the most was I thought ,due to the circumstances, that Joe might be someone trying to bash me for personal reasons. Now that I know he is just an average "Joe" it feel dumb. I also feel relieved at the same time. I operate my own tree service (just a few yrs ago Dayton had more tree services per capita than the rest of the country) and you wouldn't believe how some treat the competition as mortal enemies (not realizing themselves that they are already hurting themselves just by worrying about someone else). Even if you want to keep to yourself you are forced to somewhat worry about them if you know they are worried about you. I thought some of the same was going to happen here. I am relieved that Joe isn't the WM. I don't want to be their enemy and I don't want them to be mine.

Joe, If you want to be a member of this board (and a good one) it is "we" not "you guys". I'll answer any questions you have on the drum. You have stated your doubt and that is completely all right. But when you continually post the same doubt over and over, IS trolling. I am trying to pass information here, not constantly give defense on the same topic. I am willing to start over with you. Can you start over and approach me in a different way?

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There can be no progress made without dialogue and no gain without the pain. Conflict can be good if it can be controlled. It is too easy to distrust members with opposing points of view and just hate them. This product will not ship without a reality check, it is difficult for things to get to market. There are many hurdles that have to be overcome yet, just view me as the reality check.

 

I have heard discussions that I think can help in your development. The 2 3/4 inch will be easier to make than the 3 inch. There is a large variance in manufacturers lengths in the 3 inch ammunition and that will probably preclude the 3 inch product from being easy to make. Otherwise you will be limited to specific manufacturers of 3" ammunition I think. I have not verified this, but I heard someone complaining about it a gun event. I also understand that the saiga-12's have a wide variance in the attachments that they can accept. It makes me wonder how Saiga can ship similar products with such different characteristics for accepting clips. This makes no sense, ist it true? It does make me concerned that I can order something and it might not work with my equipment.

This is like the GPS I just purchased and by the time i got finished I had buy a new radio. Its always something!

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I am interested in how you figured out which state I am in. And how the hell did you guys figure out my phone number?. You guys are too much!!!

The admins have the ability to see your IP address. A simple traceroute from there will give machine names of routers and the like. Often, DSL routes actually have the phone number associated with them in the machine name.

 

I'm not sure what techniques they used, but that's an example. There are lots of ways. The intartubes aren't as anonymous as you might think.

 

hell... click on makc and the answers pop up

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There can be no progress made without dialogue and no gain without the pain. Conflict can be good if it can be controlled. It is too easy to distrust members with opposing points of view and just hate them. This product will not ship without a reality check, it is difficult for things to get to market. There are many hurdles that have to be overcome yet, just view me as the reality check.

 

I have heard discussions that I think can help in your development. The 2 3/4 inch will be easier to make than the 3 inch. There is a large variance in manufacturers lengths in the 3 inch ammunition and that will probably preclude the 3 inch product from being easy to make. Otherwise you will be limited to specific manufacturers of 3" ammunition I think. I have not verified this, but I heard someone complaining about it a gun event. I also understand that the saiga-12's have a wide variance in the attachments that they can accept. It makes me wonder how Saiga can ship similar products with such different characteristics for accepting clips. This makes no sense, ist it true? It does make me concerned that I can order something and it might not work with my equipment.

This is like the GPS I just purchased and by the time i got finished I had buy a new radio. Its always something!

Since you know so much about my project, I was wondering, what are these reality checks you speck so sure of?

 

No, honestly you don't know a damn thing. I have tried to keep cool with you but your last post has said and verified it all. You are simply a troll. And that is that. If you had read any of this thread for information purposes, other than your sad trolling reasons, you would know some things.

First of all you admitted earlier in this thread of your limited knowledge of firearms, but now you think you can help me. Trust me, I don't need your help.

You state that a 2 3/4 would be easier to make. Guess what, like stated in my first post, and many other directly to you, I have already made a 2 3/4 mag.

You say that 3 inch vary in size. If you knew anything about it, you would know that 2 3/4 vary even more than 3 inch rounds. If you had read this thread you would also have read that the size difference between 2 3/4 shell has already been discussed in this thread. And that I worked it out in the 2 3/4 inch design. And you would know that I would consider this with the design for both.

Here is a reality check for you. You aren't fooling anyone. You aren't impressing anyone. You look dumber and dumber every time you try to talk. I have repeatedly ask you, nicely, members have repeatedly asked you, nicely, mods have told you nicely and you just don't quit. In you short time here you have been nothing but provoking and ignorant.

I don't know why you have been aloud to continue to sabotage my post. You have from your very first post. And continue to. This obviously isn't going to end with you until a mod sends you searching for your next forum to troll.

I would appreciate it if you would just go ahead and buy all the drums you plan to purchase from WM. Then you could forget all about mine and your great concerns for it. I know you won't do this though. Because you are a troll and that is what trolls do. You have no interest in this forum or my drum.

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There can be no progress made without dialogue and no gain without the pain. Conflict can be good if it can be controlled. It is too easy to distrust members with opposing points of view and just hate them. This product will not ship without a reality check, it is difficult for things to get to market. There are many hurdles that have to be overcome yet, just view me as the reality check.

 

I have heard discussions that I think can help in your development. The 2 3/4 inch will be easier to make than the 3 inch. There is a large variance in manufacturers lengths in the 3 inch ammunition and that will probably preclude the 3 inch product from being easy to make. Otherwise you will be limited to specific manufacturers of 3" ammunition I think. I have not verified this, but I heard someone complaining about it a gun event. I also understand that the saiga-12's have a wide variance in the attachments that they can accept. It makes me wonder how Saiga can ship similar products with such different characteristics for accepting clips. This makes no sense, ist it true? It does make me concerned that I can order something and it might not work with my equipment.

This is like the GPS I just purchased and by the time i got finished I had buy a new radio. Its always something!

Since you know so much about my project, I was wondering, what are these reality checks you speck so sure of?

 

No, honestly you don't know a damn thing. I have tried to keep cool with you but your last post has said and verified it all. You are simply a troll. And that is that. If you had read any of this thread for information purposes, other than your sad trolling reasons, you would know some things.

First of all you admitted earlier in this thread of your limited knowledge of firearms, but now you think you can help me. Trust me, I don't need your help.

You state that a 2 3/4 would be easier to make. Guess what, like stated in my first post, and many other directly to you, I have already made a 2 3/4 mag.

You say that 3 inch vary in size. If you knew anything about it, you would know that 2 3/4 vary even more than 3 inch rounds. If you had read this thread you would also have read that the size difference between 2 3/4 shell has already been discussed in this thread. And that I worked it out in the 2 3/4 inch design. And you would know that I would consider this with the design for both.

Here is a reality check for you. You aren't fooling anyone. You aren't impressing anyone. You look dumber and dumber every time you try to talk. I have repeatedly ask you, nicely, members have repeatedly asked you, nicely, mods have told you nicely and you just don't quit. In you short time here you have been nothing but provoking and ignorant.

I don't know why you have been aloud to continue to sabotage my post. You have from your very first post. And continue to. This obviously isn't going to end with you until a mod sends you searching for your next forum to troll.

I would appreciate it if you would just go ahead and buy all the drums you plan to purchase from WM. Then you could forget all about mine and your great concerns for it. I know you won't do this though. Because you are a troll and that is what trolls do. You have no interest in this forum or my drum.

 

I do not understand where you are coming from. I admit I am not a genius and I have never claimed to be one. I have no misconception that I can help you. Your through grasp and in depth knowledge of this technology is incredible.

 

But i do not understand why are you so bitter and hateful? You certainly are not a very positive person and the frustration you are demonstrating here is not healthy. Perhaps you should seek some professional psychological help to address your issues.

 

Anyway, I dont mean to vent, but somtimes you just frustrate me.

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I do not understand where you are coming from. I admit I am not a genius and I have never claimed to be one. I have no misconception that I can help you. Your through grasp and in depth knowledge of this technology is incredible.

 

But i do not understand why are you so bitter and hateful? You certainly are not a very positive person and the frustration you are demonstrating here is not healthy. Perhaps you should seek some professional psychological help to address your issues.

 

Anyway, I dont mean to vent, but somtimes you just frustrate me.

Like I told you "before". I am positive. I know I have it. A negative person would have never attempted what I HAVE DONE. You are the one posting negative things about the topic. Over and over. And you wonder why I am bitter. You haven't even seen bitter out of me.

You come here and poke and pick and when you get someone to react you suggest professional help to them. It is apparent you have the issues, there is some inadequacies in your life that must drive you. Tell me about your mother. Maybe I can help YOU work this out so you can start to function better in society.

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I do not understand where you are coming from. I admit I am not a genius and I have never claimed to be one. I have no misconception that I can help you. Your through grasp and in depth knowledge of this technology is incredible.

 

But i do not understand why are you so bitter and hateful? You certainly are not a very positive person and the frustration you are demonstrating here is not healthy. Perhaps you should seek some professional psychological help to address your issues.

 

Anyway, I dont mean to vent, but somtimes you just frustrate me.

Like I told you "before". I am positive. I know I have it. A negative person would have never attempted what I HAVE DONE. You are the one posting negative things about the topic. Over and over. And you wonder why I am bitter. You haven't even seen bitter out of me.

You come here and poke and pick and when you get someone to react you suggest professional help to them. It is apparent you have the issues, there is some inadequacies in your life that must drive you. Tell me about your mother. Maybe I can help YOU work this out so you can start to function better in society.

 

Yes Mike many people in this form have issues that need to be dealt with, I am no exception. We all need help with various aspect of our lives and I pray everyday for God to give me strength. You dont know much about me, although someone on this form has been able to identify my place of residence, probably my employer and my phone number. I have no such ability nor desire to do this to you.

 

You say your are positive and that is why you are doing this development. I too am positive about this project, but I sincerely believe it will not come to fruition by July 20th 2007. I think there are many things that need to be addressed with this project and many things that only a firing prototype will prove out. I dont think this is as easy as your are thinking, in fact I would go as far as to guess the you have serious doubts that this product can be produced in the time frame you have committed to (July 20, 2007) in a problem free implementation. Although you probably have had a few more beers by now and it is starting to sound like a credible plan again. I sincerely do not believe that this project is going to happen.

 

I have been wrong before, and this could be another time I am, but I do not think so.

 

Also I would like to submit the name DA-20 for the name of your product. Think about it! Its a good name and very telling.

 

Have a nice Night!!!!!!!!

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I would like to apologize to the forum for this BS in my thread. I am not trying to encourage the troll.

 

Please understand that I have to defend my product. If I let Joe talk it down and state his ignorance and inability to read without a defending response, someone just might believe his BS.

 

One last time,

 

I do have a firing prototype. In fact it is a third generation. I have already done improving mods to it twice before I had the mold shop start. My production date is drawing near regardless of what Joe thinks. It might not be the exact date he is stuck on. It might be sooner, it might be later. But it will be close to the date. Very close to the date.

 

Again I am sorry. This is out of my hands. Until something is done with the troll I will have to continue to defend my drum. I will try to keep my cool and ignore the troll as much as possible. But if I have to continue to defend my drum I will.

 

Could a mod please step in here and do something about this guy? Hasn't he proved over and over what he is and what he is doing? We have given him many chances. He is not interested in the well being of this forum and doesn't deserve to be here. He has shown the utmost disregard for the staff and members here. I have enough going on right now to have to come and defend myself 4 or 5 times a day. Joe is not slowing the project down or anything, but he is causing me an added burden. This burden can easily be taken care of. He could at least be blocked from this thread couldn't he? :cryss:

Edited by Mike Davidson
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I would like to apologize to the forum for this BS in my thread. I am not trying to encourage the troll.

 

Please understand that I have to defend my product. If I let Joe talk it down and state his ignorance and inability to read without a defending response, someone just might believe his BS.

 

One last time,

 

I do have a firing prototype. In fact it is a third generation. I have already done improving mods to it twice before I had the mold shop start. My production date is drawing near regardless of what Joe thinks. It might not be the exact date he is stuck on. It might be sooner, it might be later. But it will be close to the date. Very close to the date.

 

Again I am sorry. This is out of my hands. Until something is done with the troll I will have to continue to defend my drum. I will try to keep my cool and ignore the troll as much as possible. But if I have to continue to defend my drum I will.

 

Could a mod please step in here and do something about this guy? Hasn't he proved over and over what he is and what he is doing? We have given him many chances. He is not interested in the well being of this forum and doesn't deserve to be here. He has shown the utmost disregard for the staff and members here. I have enough going on right now to have to come and defend myself 4 or 5 times a day. Joe is not slowing the project down or anything, but he is causing me an added burden. This burden can easily be taken care of. He could at least be blocked from this thread couldn't he? :cryss:

 

Sorry that I was not able to respond last night Mike, but I had to go to bed, it was getting late and the wife was whining about the light being on in the trailer (she hates that). I believe you, I really do. I am sure you have a third generation prototype, I believe that it was working flawlessly and that you are ready for production. I am sure not having a live fire video was only an oversight (I think you said you did not want to risk damaging your Saiga if my mermory servers correctly) and that currently you did not have a working prototype. I am sure everything you say is true, I dont believe there is any BS involved in any of this. I am sure on July 20th, 2007 that I will be eating crow (I can taste it now, its not very good). All we have to do is wait, it will happen, I am sure of it. So until then I will wait for them pigs to be flying all over my house (doublewide) like you said would happen.

 

Please dont keep defending yourself, it is getting embarrassing.

 

Hey is this your pictture ? horses-ass.jpg

Edited by Joe Hilarious
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Hey is this your pictture ?

horses-ass.jpg

 

Nowww it all makes sense -- the unrelenting attacks, the pointless comments, the appearance of Joe being personally wronged by Mike...!!!

 

Mike, what are you doing with that picture of Joe's wife? Dude, that's just wrong -- and pointing at her like that -- what's that about!?!?! Sure she'll let you do things to her that most other farm animals would be ashamed of, but that's no reason to make a spectacle of her in front of others. Have some decency, and for god's sake, what made you thik it was ok to let that picture of your relations get on the net in the first place??? Joe, I've changed my tune. I don't blame you for trolling Mike -- if I found a picture of him about to stick his finger in my wife's mouth I'd be pissed off and irrational too.

Edited by K1196A
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Hey is this your pictture ?

horses-ass.jpg

 

Nowww it all makes sense -- the unrelenting attacks, the pointless comments, the appearance of Joe being personally wronged by Mike...!!!

 

Mike, what are you doing with that picture of Joe's wife? Dude, that's just wrong -- and pointing at her like that -- what's that about!?!?! Sure she'll let you do things to her that most other farm animals would be ashamed of, but that's no reason to make a spectacle of her in front of others. Have some decency, and for god's sake, what made you thik it was ok to let that picture of your relations get on the net in the first place??? Joe, I've changed my tune. I don't blame you for trolling Mike -- if I found a picture of him about to stick his finger in my wife's mouth I'd be pissed off and irrational too.

 

You guys are too quick witted for me! It is interesting that you can have a quick witted come back remark like that, yet you cant identify the BS that is being shovelled here. It is truly amazing, but I guess true friends do back up their buddies even when they are way out there, I admire that, it is truly a hard found traight these days.

 

Please obey the sign posted no_bullshit.jpg

 

Thankyou, Have a nice day! I am off to the range!!!!

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