Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Awwwww You know what folks! THIS is what sets us apart from other gun "forums" The home brew projects that flesh out into reality, and all those who "Help" by constructive criticism or by just cheering on. As I said, not just a forum, but a "community". A great big dysfunctional family. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 QUOTE(kmoore @ Jun 22 2007, 10:18 PM) Looking good! Noticed that the drums made from white are loose enough that when the full drum is being shot, it rocks around a little. Not bad now, but could lead to future problems if something gets weak. Rocks less and less as the drum empties, hardly noticable when there are only 5 or so shells. But the second proto type seems much better fit. Didn't see any rocking at all. Wondering about the use of that tree. I figure you use it to take the recoil of the shot gun because: You cut trees for a living and therefor, you see them as your enemy or Your shoulder can only take so much abuse? or Shotgun isn't reliable unless it has a firm resistance? or ???? Also, Im curious about the shells you use? Light bird loads, or heavy 3", or ??? Looking forward. Any revision of the expected date of release? Good questions. The white drum (fdm prototype process, abs material). When I first got the white mag it had almost no play (rocking). I have fired a few thousand rounds out of it and it is on the verge of destroyed. I have repaired it countless times. Prototype material is only a small fraction of the strength of a production material of the same type. It has been good in the sense of seeing stress points and such. Also the fdm proto is much more flexible than the sls prototype (glass filled nylon). Using the tree. The main reason I used the tree was to help stabilize the more flexible white proto. It let me fire it without the drum taking as much stress in already repaired places ( front mag catch, tower base). I figured it would also help prolong the life of the sls proto as well. I have fired the sls from the shoulder and hip though. I will try to film soon. Improving reliability is more on the drum proto part rather than the gun. So it doesn't come apart. By the tree holding the gun in place it would speed the action up (very slightly, milliseconds). If it was fired from a giving rest (shoulder or hip) , the bolt is loosing momentum from the recoil rearward. What this means is from the tree the mag doesn't have as much time to get the next round in position before the bolt passes back over to pick the round up. But as you can see still feeds fine under a faster bolt. I am 99% certain this drum will work full auto. In all the videos now up I am using 100rd value packs from Winchester, Federal, and Remington. I figured that these would be the most used so have given them the most rigorous testing. I have fired damn near anything you can think of out of the 3 inch model and all with great result other than the 2 3/4 value packs. The Remington value packs have a slightly longer length than the other 2 and seemed to do just as well as out of a 5, 8, or 10rder. But the other 2 didn't. In the new proto I haven't fired slugs out of it yet. But have fired some buckshot like speer lawman (damn I love those rounds) , fiocchi, Winchester... I haven't sent much through it though as I've ran out of different kinds. I really burnt it up in the white one. I do plan to get some to test though. One thing I do hate is Wolf buckshot won't fit in the mag now which sucks because I know a lot of people like it. And the Russian steel case won't fit now either. It pisses me off to even have to type it. As far as proto strength and wear.... I just have to say it again. The production material is multiply times stronger and more durable. For example, regular production strength nylon without glass fiber is over twice as strong as glass filled nylon proto material. The weakest form of production glass filled nylon I think was 4 times stronger than proto glass filed nylon and so on. What I'm saying is the production drum is going to be very, very strong and should be good for 10's of thousands of rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Wow, Mike, that drum is really starting to look nice. It is a shame about the 3" model, esp considering that that is the one I really want (something about firing twenty rounds of 3" #1 buck with 24 .30 caliber pellets, but anyway). However, the fact that you are doing so well progress wise is really good to hear and I hope that we get both designs that are produced in perfect working order rather than get a rushed out half assed product like the AGP mags. I know you have considered installing the clear strip that will allow you to see how many rounds will be left in the drum, realistically how well will that work? It is very important to me that a drum, or any ammo feeding device not only function reliably but be very durable for field use as well. One quick question, can the drum be loaded on a closed bolt? BTW, Juggernaut, I liked your old avatar better. Edited June 24, 2007 by Vangcomper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bearpower 2 Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Keep up the good work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) Wow, Mike, that drum is really starting to look nice. It is a shame about the 3" model, esp considering that that is the one I really want (something about firing twenty rounds of 3" #1 buck with 24 .30 caliber pellets, but anyway). However, the fact that you are doing so well progress wise is really good to hear and I hope that we get both designs that are produced in perfect working order rather than get a rushed out half assed product like the AGP mags. I know you have considered installing the clear strip that will allow you to see how many rounds will be left in the drum, realistically how well will that work? It is very important to me that a drum, or any ammo feeding device not only function reliably but be very durable for field use as well. One quick question, can the drum be loaded on a closed bolt? BTW, Juggernaut, I liked your old avatar better. It does suck about the 3 inch design. When I make them I'm going to have someone add length to the tang off the top of the barrel so i don't have to mess with an insert. The entire cover will be clear and one piece. I didn't want to do windows because it would require extra parts to be made and extra parts to be installed. You are correct in that it would take away from the strength by not being solid. After seeing the newest proto with a black cover I've thought more about making it an option. But I can say I did miss seeing the shell in as I was loading it. You can't load on a closed bolt with 20 in the mag. The simplest way to do it would have been to make the tower longer and I didn't want the drum hanging off the receiver like that. I could have came up with a different follower system, but it would have added extra moving parts that would have added to the cost off the drum and taken away from the drums simplicity. The parts would have been way more prone to failure or to breaking than any other part of the drum and would have no doubt been something that would require more maintenance to prevent such. The design I have is very simple. It only has 3 moving parts, gear, spring, and a fake round. The gear and the spring move in sync and the spring is completely contained with virtually one way to bind, also the spring doesn't rub the interior like a standard stick mag and causes no wear. The other moving part is actually a fake round and will preform just like a real round. I have came up with a simple way to keep the round from falling out while the mag is empty so you don't have to worry about losing it. Also by saving on keeping parts count down and the drum simple is going to let me choose a more expensive material and still keep the drum fairly cheap in retail cost. The material I choice is going to be top of the line. By having a strong material it will let people truly exploit the simplicity of the drum by making it have a very, very long life as well. I don't want it to wear fast like the 10rders. Edited June 25, 2007 by Mike Davidson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaiganFire 0 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Thanks Mike! Now that I've got my feet wet, I'll have to start being an active member. When I post here again it will be with a question or comment about your awesome drums. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reoiv 1 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Wow! It is looking awesome, I can't wait till you are ready to take orders Mike. Keep up the great work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Thanks Mike! Now that I've got my feet wet, I'll have to start being an active member. When I post here again it will be with a question or comment about your awesome drums. Colin Damn dude! You've been a member since before I even joined and have never uttered a peep? AND your from NC too??? Welcome to the open forum...NEWBIE....LOL! Don't be shy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I'd say 2 3/4 is fine. The only thing I'd use 3" for is hunting cobras................................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Makc 64 Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I'd say 2 3/4 is fine. The only thing I'd use 3" for is hunting cobras................................ You'd need a lot longer than a 3" to "hunt" that one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlexanMD 2 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Mike - Greetings from a fellow Dayton resident & new forum member. I just wanted to say that this is some really great work! I think the 2 3/4 is perfect and cost effective; I rarely find the need to put 3in shells through my Saiga. Glad to see you took all the needed time to work the bugs out. I like the closed sidewall design & can't wait to see these available for sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Veen 0 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 So glad to see you back in action, and the videos brought a smile to my face. Unfortunately, all I ever fire from my Saiga is the 3" stuff or non-crimped 2 3/4" stuff which is about as long as a crimped 3" anyway. Looks like I'll have to wait for a 3" or combo model, but the second one is available or you take orders for them, you can bet I'll be snagging one. The last post you made sort of made me wonder. What do you mean by a "fake round?" I'm trying to figure out what exactly you meant by it, and if it is literally just a snap cap type inert round, why does the magazine need it? Am I just not understanding the design of the drum or something here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 So glad to see you back in action, and the videos brought a smile to my face. Unfortunately, all I ever fire from my Saiga is the 3" stuff or non-crimped 2 3/4" stuff which is about as long as a crimped 3" anyway. Looks like I'll have to wait for a 3" or combo model, but the second one is available or you take orders for them, you can bet I'll be snagging one. The last post you made sort of made me wonder. What do you mean by a "fake round?" I'm trying to figure out what exactly you meant by it, and if it is literally just a snap cap type inert round, why does the magazine need it? Am I just not understanding the design of the drum or something here? If all goes well the 3 inch design shouldn't be to far behind. All I will have to do is make one mold for the body becuase all the other parts are interchange able. The dummy round acts like a follower in a sence. If it wasn't there you would be able to load 21 rounds into the drum but only 20 of them would be able to be loaded and fired. The 21st round would be left behind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Mike - Greetings from a fellow Dayton resident & new forum member. I just wanted to say that this is some really great work! I think the 2 3/4 is perfect and cost effective; I rarely find the need to put 3in shells through my Saiga. Glad to see you took all the needed time to work the bugs out. I like the closed sidewall design & can't wait to see these available for sale. Hey, welcome to the forum. Where about do you kick up your dust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Update Post I hired someone to build a web site. The person I originally was going to have do it turned out not to know half about websites as they claimed. I sniffed them out and have now hired a true professional. He hopes to have the site up and running in about 2 weeks. By the time it opens I will have a price set and a very good estimation on when they will be done. When the site is opened I am going to start taking pre-orders. The website will be www.MDArms.com . If you go there now you will see that it says website coming soon! Until then please continue to comment and ask questions. I promise your questions to me won't be ignored and I won't give you the spin like the competition is getting so good at. I don't know how many times I have seen people ask the same questions over and over and still not get an answer. Hell, maybe they don't know the answers themselves. It looks like we won't get the answers on the other until forum members get them and answer them theirselves and then relate them to us. If you have a question for me, ask and I'll answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Daemon688 0 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Excellent! I've been watching your threads for quite some time now and I'm totally excited to get this drum. I think it's great to see a forum member design, produce, and market their own product. From the looks of it, you'll have plenty of business on your hands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. wipple 0 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I am new here and very interested in what you have to offer. There was talk about a .410 drum, is this still in your future plans of manufacture? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I am new here and very interested in what you have to offer. There was talk about a .410 drum, is this still in your future plans of manufacture? Yes. I have a lot of other things in mind as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reoiv 1 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 I am new here and very interested in what you have to offer. There was talk about a .410 drum, is this still in your future plans of manufacture? Yes. I have a lot of other things in mind as well. If you made a .410 drum that you could dump a whole box of .410 ammo in I would buy that in a heartbeat. I don't even have a Saiga .410 but I would get one just because of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynnkcircle 0 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Two questions: when will one be available? Secondly -- will I be able to afford it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Two questions: when will one be available? Secondly -- will I be able to afford it? I'm not sure when they will be available just yet. If I hadn't took on the 3 inch design they would probably be done or very close right now. I would say that they are around 2 months out at this point. I can't say for sure but will have a better idea this week after I talk to the mold makers. I was going to talk to them last week but concentrated on getting everything in place for the website and stuff. If everything goes well with the site I should be taking orders in about 2 weeks. I will make sure that the opening time and date for the site is placed well in advance so people can make arrangements and reminders. My price is still not set just yet. I have a couple more material makers that are supposed to get with me this week. But I do know that they will be around the 200.00 mark. Hopefully less and not more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. wipple 0 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I hope this thing takes off soon. I am afraid I might spend my money on another parts kit to assemble instead of getting a drum for my S-12. I have quit looking at .410 ten round mags in hopes of getting a drum instead . When do you think your website will be up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 This thread is huge and was a pain in the ass to read entirely. I do not own a Saiga-12, but I am looking for a semi 12. The only 12ga that I shoot now is roll-crimp cheapy buckshot like S&B 2-3/4" magnums, 12 pellet 00. Darn, I'll continue to search around for what gun to get. I want a high capacity and a design I trust, and that means Russian or Italian. Sorry Remington. As for the .410, make it. MAAAAAKE IIIIIIIT! I assume most folks around here would have you make it in 3" (first, if you did both). I don't know if I would prefer you do 2.5" or 3". Magtech makes .410 brass in 2.5", so I'd reload .410 using that stuff if you made the mag in 2.5". If you make it in 3"... well I'd have to look into other options, as buying .410 is a giant PITA as far as cost (over twice 12ga). Either way, you should start a poll onsite here or something to find out what we want from you for future offerings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 A poll might be worth while. Making the 2 3/4" first makes sense. A lot of folks would use them for blasting cheap ammo. At the same time, I still see a mag that will feed the Russian steel hull ammo reliably as having a real world edge over one that will not, due to top round deforemation with plastic hull ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macgyverhk 3 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Like I said months ago - Mike, please put me down for one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 A poll might be worth while. Making the 2 3/4" first makes sense. A lot of folks would use them for blasting cheap ammo. At the same time, I still see a mag that will feed the Russian steel hull ammo reliably as having a real world edge over one that will not, due to top round deforemation with plastic hull ammo. Here is what I plan for that. After I get the first design released I am going to make the design for both after I get my capital up. All the parts will be interchangable from one design to the other. I am going to offer the people that bought a 2 3/4 design a special price offer on a drum body and insert and they can put their peices from the 2 3/4 drum in that one if they don't want to buy another whole drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) A poll might be worth while. Making the 2 3/4" first makes sense. A lot of folks would use them for blasting cheap ammo. At the same time, I still see a mag that will feed the Russian steel hull ammo reliably as having a real world edge over one that will not, due to top round deforemation with plastic hull ammo. Here is what I plan for that. After I get the first design released I am going to make the design for both after I get my capital up. All the parts will be interchangable from one design to the other. I am going to offer the people that bought a 2 3/4 design a special price offer on a drum body and insert and they can put their peices from the 2 3/4 drum in that one if they don't want to buy another whole drum. Mike,do you mean we will be able to put the 2 3/4" innards in a 3" drum body? If so that sounds good as im kinda in the air on weather to buy a 2 3/4" or not as i want to shoot mostly the longer non crimped 2 3/4" shells.I think having the interchangeable materials for both sizes would make it much more convenant and versatile. Edited July 3, 2007 by Pointer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Mike,do you mean we will be able to put the 2 3/4" innards in a 3" drum body? If so sounds good as i m kinda in the air on weather to buy a 2 3/4" or not as i want to shoot mostly the longer non crimped 2 3/4" shells.I think having the interchangeable materials for both sizes would make it much more convenant and versatile. Yes, That is what I meant. Also, during the process of testing the 3 inch design I beefed up the spring. I am going to put the beefed up spring in the 2 3/4 only model as well. Just so you know the spring will take the heavier loads if people want to buy a drum housing only and not the whole 3 inch drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) If it will function just as good as buying two separate mags, then that would be Edited July 3, 2007 by cscharlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 If it will function just as good as buying two separate mags, then that would be The internals are exactly the same from one to the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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