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MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Magazine, information thread


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MIke, These look great please cotact me when you are ready to start sellng them. I will be interested in several.

Thanks

Thanks, I should be taking orders in about 10 to 14 days. Please stay tuned to the thread for updates. I am going to post a good update in a few days that goes over orders, price, dates... Thanks again! :super::super:

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will the three inch mag be able to take 2 3/4" rounds as well?

Yes, you can read more into some off the problems here with the 2 3/4 inch in the 3 inch design though in post #385 in this thread. I plan to include an insert with it to take up the extra room though so the shortest work better. Read post 385 for more details.

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Damn, post#428? This is quita a thread you got goin!

I gotta say Mike, I'm impressed by what I've seen so far and I'm finding myself actually starting to get a little excited about this whole drum thing. I think your's is the better design and once the bugs are worked out I'm sure it'll be worth the wait.

Hang in there! We're behind ya!

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Update Post

 

Upgrade: I added extra material to the drum just so it will be extra strong. View the pics below to compare the reenforcments to one of the fired prototype drums. The drum on the right is the one from videos 1 and 2. It is probably overkill, but that's the way we like it. :super:

 

Time-line: I should have some test units in my hands off the mold in about 8 to 10 weeks. If the molds don't need tweaked I should be shipping the first run about 2 weeks after that.

 

Material: They will be made out of a glass filled polyphthalamide. It isn't nylon but is in the nylon family. It out-performs nylon in all the right places. It is a high performance material. It is stronger, tougher, and more durable than nylon. It makes for a much more consistent product. It can handle think to thin transitions without the shrink of nylon. It is virtually nonabsorbent to moisture unlike nylon. It stays very strong at very high and very low temps. It is commonly used to replace metal parts. All around better and stronger. It is 50% to 100% better than nylon in the crucial areas. The drum will have stainless steel inserts, one in the post that the gear and the cover clips to and one in the front mag catch like the factory mags.

 

Ordering: I will be taking orders as soon as the site is up. My guy is working hard on it to get it done for me. He said he should have it up no later than 2 weeks ( said this 2 days ago), but would try to get it done earlier. I'll just be happy if he meets the 2 week deadline. I will let everyone know a few days in advance of opening the site and give a specific time and date. I will be accepting Visa, MasterCard, Discover, money orders and certified checks. I will require a 50% deposit for first run orders. And charge the remaining balance right before shipping. After the first run I will not charge a deposit and just charge the full amount right before shipping.

 

Shipping: I haven't decided yet on shipping options. I might just go with one carrier option like AGP. Don't know yet, just starting to look into it.

 

Price: I originally was not going to give a discount on the drums until I had covered the project expense with sales. Or give dealer pricing either. But if I did this then I wouldn't be able to give a discount to all the people that have watched , supported , and patiently waited ( because know doubt most of you will be the first to order). So here is what I came up with. Instead of charging more first and the price dropping later from dealer over stocking, I figured I will charge less to start ( basically dealer pricing to all even if you only order one) and after the first run raise the price of the drum. This way the people that buy first won't find the value of their drum has dropped in a month or two, but has gone up. I am going to list 1000 drums to start. But if they are spoken for before production starts I will add to the number produced in the first run and make more available. If there is enough time to increase my production order before they start. Hopefully doing this will help get more drums to more people without having to wait like with the 10rders. Also, hopefully it will cut down on marked up reselling and people will be less likely to order more than they want for personal use. I don't know yet if I am going to limit the number ordered or offer large number to dealers in the first run. I guess I will have to see how sells are going and what exactly dealers want.

So here is what you've been waiting for, a solid price. The first run will be $165.00 each plus shipping. After the first run I'm going to raise the price to $200.00 each plus shipping and start offering quantity discount.Let it be written!

post-2662-1183773753_thumb.jpg

post-2662-1183773762_thumb.jpg

post-2662-1183773770_thumb.jpg

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Will the first run include the 3" design as well as that is the one I really want? Also, if the 3" design can accept 2 3/4" shells too, you should allow it to. You shouldn't add a piece to keep 2 3/4" from loading just because a few types of 2 3/4" won't fit. The fact that it says 3" is enough. .40 caliber magazines and guns will chamber .357 sig, it's the owner's responsability not to do anything stupid.

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Will the first run include the 3" design as well as that is the one I really want? Also, if the 3" design can accept 2 3/4" shells too, you should allow it to. You shouldn't add a piece to keep 2 3/4" from loading just because a few types of 2 3/4" won't fit. The fact that it says 3" is enough. .40 caliber magazines and guns will chamber .357 sig, it's the owner's responsability not to do anything stupid.

The 3 inch design will come after. The 3 inch design will take 2 3/4 also. The insert I'm talking about will be if you want to shoot the shortest of the 2 3/4 out of it as well. It will take up the extra move and make the short rounds more reliable. Most of the more expensive 2 3/4 won't require the insert as well as the Russian wolf and steel cased. The insert is for people that don't want to or can't mod the tang in the barrel, but still use the cheap 2 3/4 value packs.

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So there is no way I can pay $165 to get a 3" drum?

I never thought of that. I will have to think on it. I assumed I would offer a special price on the 3 inch drum body to the people that bought a 2 3/4 only model. I didn't really think of if someone just flat out didn't want a 2 3/4 only drum. Maybe I'll start a list of people that only want a 3 inch design. This does pose a question of fairness to 3inch only guys. Let me think on it.

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Mike,Thats just badazz! :up: I know its hard to say but,how long and how much will the stripped 3" drum be for those who bought the 2 3/4" drum.

I have been telling people 3 months. But really, If sales are good it might be sooner. The thing is basically designed already. I just need to design the insert. And that will be simple. I already have it in me head. Just needs to be turned into math and prototyped. Also would need some small metal inserts to eclip the insert in place. Lot of inserts goin on, huh. The mold would probably be done in about 4 weeks from order. Probably wouldn't need a mold for the insert. It might could just be cut from sheets of material. I would have to compare cost in the insert mold, injection costs vs. sheet material cost and labor (cutting and drilling) cost and compare to an educated guesstimation of what the demand might be for the design.

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After I get the first design released I am going to make the design for both after I get my capital up. All the parts will be interchangable from one design to the other. I am going to offer the people that bought a 2 3/4 design a special price offer on a drum body and insert and they can put their peices from the 2 3/4 drum in that one if they don't want to buy another whole drum.

 

will the three inch mag be able to take 2 3/4" rounds as well?

Yes, you can read more into some off the problems here with the 2 3/4 inch in the 3 inch design though in post #385 in this thread. I plan to include an insert with it to take up the extra room though so the shortest work better. Read post 385 for more details.

 

I never thought of that. I will have to think on it. I assumed I would offer a special price on the 3 inch drum body to the people that bought a 2 3/4 only model. I didn't really think of if someone just flat out didn't want a 2 3/4 only drum. Maybe I'll start a list of people that only want a 3 inch design. This does pose a question of fairness to 3inch only guys. Let me think on it.

 

I've been reading and following this entire thread, I don't want a 2 3/4" only drum , unless thats all i can get. I don't want to wait on the 3" design and miss the boat because there is not as much interest in the 2 3/4" design as projected because of all the guys waiting for the upgraded more versatile drum 2.0 model.

 

what I'd like is a drum (well 5 really) that can handle most 2 3/4" and 3" , and then has an insert to adapt it to cheap wally world undersized " 2 1/2" " shells. I'd most likely be using them in a stick mag anyway.

How can I get that as cheaply as practical ?

 

I've read about extending the tang from post #385 and think its a reasonable idea to help an extremely reliable shotgun become even more ammo tolerant with undersized shells. hopefully tony rumore will add that as an upgrade option in his services for those who don't feel up to doing it themselves.

 

Oh and i recently bought a saiga .410 based in a large part on my faith in you making a drum for that model as well. no pressure :cryss:

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Wow . When you are ready to take orders just let me know where and when to send the money. This would be a very cool piece to add to my collection. I am hanging on your every word on this subject. Also will you be offering a warranty on these drums to cover manufacturers defects?

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USP40/Badman-

 

From Mike's post above: "Ordering: I will be taking orders as soon as the site is up."

 

There is no list being taken. Let's not start another "I'll take one....." thread. Watch for http://www.mdarms.com/ site to become active.

 

Just waitin' like everybody else here...............

Edited by tritium
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Wow . When you are ready to take orders just let me know where and when to send the money. This would be a very cool piece to add to my collection. I am hanging on your every word on this subject. Also will you be offering a warranty on these drums to cover manufacturers defects?

He brings up a very good point, what will the warranty be?

I understand IF I use the crap out of it and it breaks at some point due to wear and tear is one thing but if it wont work out of the box or only lasts a few hundred shells,,,,

 

 

I'm sure if he's been this open about production times / set-backs / etc. for this long he'll make things right if need be. One would hope any way. I'm new here and have found some good info so far, great site! Shamelessly talking out of turn to raise my post count!

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LOL headhunter!

Tritium is right. Please don't ya'll start in with all the "I'll take one"s. These drum threads are already long enough without all the unnecessary complications. Mike went to a lot of trouble and expense to get a website together for this exact reason. He's a great guy but don't expect him to comb thru all the threads and remember each person who said "I want one first."

 

Patience people, patience...

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USP40/Badman-

 

From Mike's post above: "Ordering: I will be taking orders as soon as the site is up."

 

There is no list being taken. Let's not start another "I'll take one....." thread. Watch for http://www.mdarms.com/ site to become active.

 

Just waitin' like everybody else here...............

Thanks tritium

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Wow . When you are ready to take orders just let me know where and when to send the money. This would be a very cool piece to add to my collection. I am hanging on your every word on this subject. Also will you be offering a warranty on these drums to cover manufacturers defects?

He brings up a very good point, what will the warranty be?

I understand IF I use the crap out of it and it breaks at some point due to wear and tear is one thing but if it wont work out of the box or only lasts a few hundred shells,,,,

I will absolutely have a warranty. I have spent countless hours going over and over the drum. Every nuk and cranny of it. I made certain that the shells had the same angle in the chamber as factory mags. I have compared it to piles of factory mags and in a lot of saigas I am very confident that there will be very, very few problems associated with tolerance differences in saigas. I had many examples to test for fit and function and made certain that it worked in all I had. (Except for function in the Tromix and uncoverted Iz-109, just for fit and angle in those). I feel it will be just as reliable as your factory mags. I have eyed, measured, compared over and over. I will stand behind this drum. It will be very strong and durable as well in both material and design. I have poured my heart in this drum.

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Thanks Mike, that would be great I appreciate it. Also, just because I am interested, what are the specs of your drum in regards to size and weight in comparison to the wrathmaker?

I don't really have a way to compare that. I also need to recalculate the weight my drum will be. I need to weight all the metal parts, and do the math on material weight vs. material volume. It should be very close to the weight stated in the first post of this thread. I have added a heavier spring and also added to the material volume, but don't know how much the new material I selected weighs in comparison to original material choice. It should be very close to the same though.

I think my drum has a slightly bigger diameter than the WR, but I am pretty sure mine has a slightly shorter profile out of the receiver. Can't say for sure.

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LOL headhunter!

Tritium is right. Please don't ya'll start in with all the "I'll take one"s. These drum threads are already long enough without all the unnecessary complications. Mike went to a lot of trouble and expense to get a website together for this exact reason. He's a great guy but don't expect him to comb thru all the threads and remember each person who said "I want one first."

 

Patience people, patience...

I promise to do my best to let everyone know who has asked. I also don't think there will be a problem with avaliability like there was with 10rders either. People should have a plenty of time to get in on the first run. And it shouldn't be a problem with making the first run as big as it needs to be to supply everyone. I'm not sure what happened with the 10rders release but from everything I've heard and looked into, it didn't have to be like that. I don't know why AGP only made such a small first run. The first run was spoken for 5 months before release and that should have been PLENTY of time to increase the production order 3 or 4 times and get more springs and such ready. Hopefully I can do a better job of planning and supplying. Like I said, I don't know what the reasons was there, but I don't think it will be an issue with my release.

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Mike,

 

Will your Drum made for 2 3/4" shells be able to accept parts and/or easy modifications to make it accept and feed 3" shells at some later point, or is it going to be just too small for that type of modification? I understand that you will be releasing the 3" model after you release the 2 3/4" version, and that the you are planning on offering a metal or plastic adapter that attaches to the follower of the 3" shell drum that will allow it to accept the 2 3/4" shells also. That will be awesome. The vast majority of what I shoot is the 2 3/4" anyway, and I can be happy with just that if need be. However, I plan on buying at least one of the 3" size when you offer them as well. God's Speed to your endevour.

 

Colin

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Mike,

 

Will your Drum made for 2 3/4" shells be able to accept parts and/or easy modifications to make it accept and feed 3" shells at some later point, or is it going to be just too small for that type of modification? I understand that you will be releasing the 3" model after you release the 2 3/4" version, and that the you are planning on offering a metal or plastic adapter that attaches to the follower of the 3" shell drum that will allow it to accept the 2 3/4" shells also. That will be awesome. The vast majority of what I shoot is the 2 3/4" anyway, and I can be happy with just that if need be. However, I plan on buying at least one of the 3" size when you offer them as well. God's Speed to your endevour.

 

Colin

The 2 3/4 drum body will not be able to be modified to accept 3 inch. The insert for the 3 inch design won't be for the follower. It will be for the interior front wall. To take up the extra room. You will be able to put any of the rounds in it and most will fire with sucsess without the insert. But the shortest of the 2 3/4 would probably nosing up about twice as often without the insert, as they do in the factory mags. Read post # 385 and 390 for more detail in this subject.

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Greetings to all, this Saiga-12 website is just great ( and yes I did pay my dues with PayPal, I hope we all do) and helps my workday(!) to go faster...

 

I thought about saving my first posting to share a picture of my Millena-Enterprises modified S-12 but the pictures of Mike Davidson's drums got me all strung up.

No doubt about it, the design looks way cool with a sort of east-block feel to it suitable for the S-12 and the substantially lower price compared to other products on the market makes for an easy decision at this point. Three drums for the price of two made by someone else sounds like a no-brainer to me.

It will actually feel good to pay for his product because clearly some people have suffered tummy ache about him emerging on the playfield....

 

I do hope that the final production run will include some feature that enables you to know the approximate amount of rounds in the mag just by a glance, not that the lack thereof would make me not to buy them.

Edited by Magpull
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Greetings to all, this Saiga-12 website is just great ( and yes I did pay my dues with PayPal, I hope we all do) and helps my workday(!) to go faster...

 

I thought about saving my first posting to share a picture of my Millena-Enterprises modified S-12 but the pictures of Mike Davidson's drums got me all strung up.

No doubt about it, the design looks way cool with a sort of east-block feel to it suitable for the S-12 and the substantially lower price compared to other products on the market makes for an easy decision at this point. Three drums for the price of two made by someone else sounds like a no-brainer to me.

It will actually feel good to pay for his product because clearly some people have suffered tummy ache about him emerging on the playfield....

 

I do hope that the final production run will include some feature that enables you to know the approximate amount of rounds in the mag just by a glance, not that the lack thereof would make me not to buy them.

Thanks for the complements. The production run will have a clear cover so you will be able to see how many rounds are left. If enough people ask for a black cover I might run some of those as well, but at this point all will be clear.

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Well, one thought for a name that might offer some protection from the Democrats would be the ....wait for it...."The Kotex Dispenser".

I would love to see the news report on the first legislation to ban their sale or possession. The name wouldn't stop me from buying one and it sure would be a heck of an inside joke. Though you might have to change the spelling on Kotex to avoid copyright issues.

All joking aside great work, I applaud your commitment and dedication.

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