cscharlie 107 Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 QUOTE(Vangcomper @ Jul 29 2007, 07:36 PM) There should be a $165 promotion for those who only want the 3" version. I will work something out. I will have to wait to see what it will be though. I can't really set anything in stone right now. The 3 inch will have a couple extra component and probably more metal inserts. That would sure be nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 How much are you figuring for the extra springs? Do you have an idea of spring life on your drum. You really got things stirred up around here. (again!) Great job and as always, hurry up. Been thinking about a case (like the Beta Mag) for it yet?1911 I have the springs listed for $12.00. I don't really know about the spring life. Really I would guess for most people one will last a life time. It is a very strong spring. At the tension it is set to push is probably less than half what it can push. I have a couple prototype springs and took one to it's winding limit and slightly beyond. A few times. When you do that with a torsion spring you have taken it past it's designed limit and weaken the spring. It looses around 30% of it's possible torque. Even with the weakened spring the mag still fed fine. You won't be (or at least you shouldn't) setting your spring close to the winding limit of the spring. I just wanted to offer them for sale because I know some people like to have some fresh/extra springs for their mags around. I really doubt the will be a big seller or anything, just wanted you to have to option. I have been thinking more about the case lately. I am going to see if I can find a local shop that might could make some. I haven't really had time to look into it much. First I was spending my time mainly with the 3 inch design and then with the website and other this and thats. Now that the site is all but done, and the very most of the this and thats, I should have time to look into the pouch more. I also want to make an illustrated instruction guide or card for the drum explaining dis assembly and reassembly (super simple), spring tension, and suggested maintenance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks Mike, sounds good. Maybe the 3" version can be tweaked so that it can be loaded on a closed bolt? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks Mike, sounds good. Maybe the 3" version can be tweaked so that it can be loaded on a closed bolt? I wish it could be but there just not enough room. I could of made it load on a closed bolt but I would have had to add an extra dummy round and added length to the tower. I felt that keeping the tower shorter and the drum closer to the reciever had more advantages than the disadvantage of not being able to load on a closed bolt with 20rds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks Mike, sounds good. Maybe the 3" version can be tweaked so that it can be loaded on a closed bolt? I wish it could be but there just not enough room. I could of made it load on a closed bolt but I would have had to add an extra dummy round and added length to the tower. I felt that keeping the tower shorter and the drum closer to the reciever had more advantages than the disadvantage of not being able to load on a closed bolt with 20rds. Mike i agree.Altho it would be nice to be able to load on a closed bolt,the short tower and more compact design realy drew me to your drum design.I just dont care for a drum that hangs down real low.Yours resembles the classic AK drum design Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HEADHUNTER 0 Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks Mike, sounds good. Maybe the 3" version can be tweaked so that it can be loaded on a closed bolt? I wish it could be but there just not enough room. I could of made it load on a closed bolt but I would have had to add an extra dummy round and added length to the tower. I felt that keeping the tower shorter and the drum closer to the reciever had more advantages than the disadvantage of not being able to load on a closed bolt with 20rds. Mike i agree.Altho it would be nice to be able to load on a closed bolt,the short tower and more compact design realy drew me to your drum design.I just dont care for a drum that hangs down real low.Yours resembles the classic AK drum design +1, that last round will not matter as much as good ergonomics. You could buy extra recoil springs and leave it locked back with the full mag inserted, but 19 rounds instead makes more sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ragnarock47 10 Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hi Mike, My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but my eyes were blurring from reading through all the posts: What is the approximate diameter of the drum? Also thank you for answering my e-mail from your web site yesterday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hi Mike, My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but my eyes were blurring from reading through all the posts: What is the approximate diameter of the drum? Also thank you for answering my e-mail from your web site yesterday From the front it is right at 6 13/16inches and from the back it is 6 31/32inches. May be off a 16th or 32nd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 How much would you have to increase the feed tower in order to load on a clsoed bolt? Could you make a shorter spring, or some other solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 How much would you have to increase the feed tower in order to load on a clsoed bolt? Could you make a shorter spring, or some other solution? I will look at it tomorrow and see if I can give you some solid numbers, not sure off the top of my head. As far as shortening the spring, It isn't that kind of spring. It is a torsion spring and doesn't occupy the same space as the shells. The only solution with out changing the diameter of the drum and gear is by adding length to the tower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) Ok Mike,now ya gotta do the Tshirt thing Sell them for $15-20 and shipping. All black,white lettering,keep it simple. Back: MD ARMS Making Dream Toys Reality ------Dayton,Oh Front left : MD ARMS 100% Heavywieght cotton..L-(3XL) Ill take two Edited August 1, 2007 by Pointer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaiganFire 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Mike, Suggestion for future MD Drum development: Make the Feed Tower removable, one drum maker does this with their 1911 type drum - there is a metal magazine body that slides into place. It has metal wings at the bottom that slide into a plastic frame which is then snapped into place, however, you can make your Feed Tower in a different manner, for instance clamp on, or screw on. You could then make and sell more than one kind of Feed Tower for your drum at that point, like taller or shorter, or perhaps 2 3/4 and 3" feed-towers? Perhaps you could even make a feed tower that was compatible with .50 BMG or other large ammo types for those who can afford to shoot those guns. Regards, Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Ok Mike,now ya gotta do the Tshirt thing Sell them for $15-20 and shipping. All black,white lettering,keep it simple. Back: MD ARMS Making Dream Toys Reality ------Dayton,Oh Front left : MD ARMS 100% Heavywieght cotton..L-(3XL) Ill take two I have been considering that too. I am hoping I can make and sell them fairly cheap. I had some shirts made for my tree service and the prices wasn't too bad for a small order. I had 50 shirts made, if I made shirts for MD Arms I would probably make a lot more than 50 of them. I'm hoping I can find one place that can make pouches and clothing both. It is nice to keep as much stuff to one place as possible. Thanks for the style suggestion!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevL 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 (edited) Will your drum have the same problem with crushing the top round if you load 19 on a closed bolt and leave it that way for an extended period of time that regular stick mags have? If you remove tension from the spring to avoid this how many turns do you have to wind the spring to get it into action? Edited August 1, 2007 by DevL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Will your drum have the same problem with crushing the top round if you load 19 on a closed bolt and leave it that way for an extended period of time that regular stick mags have? If you remove tension from the spring to avoid this how many turns do you have to wind the spring to get it into action? I haven't left one loaded and stored in the gun on a closed bolt. I was afraid the constant pressure wouldn't agree with the prototype material and maybe misform or weaken it over time. As far as winding the spring, it isn't like the chinese drums. In order to wind the spring the cover and follower would have to be removed and it couldn't have shells in it when doing it, so i don't think that will be a feasible option. I can't really say on the shell deformation, I would say that more than likely it will deform the hull over time. One thing though. The pressure exerted is different than the stick mags (and probably the WR from the pics I have seen. There is a point when the pressure is more on the lower wall of the tower when the shell is making the transition from body to tower. It isn't a contant upward pressure. After the shell reaches a certain point the pressure is redirected upward. I am hoping that this will make the shell less likely to deform. I know it lets the bolt come back smooth and fairly unrestricted. I hope you understand me trying to explain the body to tower transition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drooling idiot 1 Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 I don't really know about the spring life. Really I would guess for most people one will last a life time. Hmmm.... Just ONE lifetime , ? starting to get excited, looking forward to testing out a MD20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Everybody sing....Happy Birthday to You,Happy B......you get the ideal. Mike turns all of 29 on 8/8,just want to send congrates and a recongnition of what hes acomplishing at a young tender age Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaiganFire 0 Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Mike, Happy B-Day to you! Enjoy it while you're still young! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Mike,Suggestion for future MD Drum development: Make the Feed Tower removable, one drum maker does this with their 1911 type drum - there is a metal magazine body that slides into place. It has metal wings at the bottom that slide into a plastic frame which is then snapped into place, however, you can make your Feed Tower in a different manner, for instance clamp on, or screw on. You could then make and sell more than one kind of Feed Tower for your drum at that point, like taller or shorter, or perhaps 2 3/4 and 3" feed-towers? Perhaps you could even make a feed tower that was compatible with .50 BMG or other large ammo types for those who can afford to shoot those guns. Regards, Colin The mold shop suggested someting like that. They said that the mold could be made so that the tower section could be removed and a differnt tower style could be put in it's place. I told them just to do this one the least complicated way. I'm not sure how that will be. I figured I would wait and see about that for the 3 inch design. I say that because I want to make a .410 drum as well and it seems that 3inch .410 is about the standard round. It wouldn't be that simple though. I would be able to use the same housing section of the mold, but I would have to make a new tower section and change the gear dimentions and the scoop position, the cover, the follower. Basically every injected part other than the drum section would have to have new molds made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Thanks Guys for the Happy B-Day!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevL 0 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 (edited) So from your description this thing just loads like a regular magazine and has a non windable spring? Or do you have to disassemble the back cover to load it? Also if it loads like a regular mag how easy is it to load/how long does it take to load? Finally, what would be needed to get your follower design to activate a LRBHO? Is this something someone like Tony could do to your drum while at the same time installing a LRBHO or is your dummy round follower so different you will have to offer a seperate follower that would activate the LRBHO... or would a your dummy round follower design simply not work with anything sticking up high enough to activate a LRBHO? Sorry for all the questions. Happy B-day! Edited August 9, 2007 by DevL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 So from your description this thing just loads like a regular magazine and has a non windable spring? Or do you have to disassemble the back cover to load it? Also if it loads like a regular mag how easy is it to load/how long does it take to load? Finally, what would be needed to get your follower design to activate a LRBHO? Is this something someone like Tony could do to your drum while at the same time installing a LRBHO or is your dummy round follower so different you will have to offer a seperate follower that would activate the LRBHO... or would a your dummy round follower design simply not work with anything sticking up high enough to activate a LRBHO? Sorry for all the questions. Happy B-day! It loads from the top like a regular mag. I can load one in about 20 to 30 seconds. Some people may be quicker or slower loading. As far as a LRBHO, I haven't messed with one but I would say that if you made something activate the device it would probably have to activate it after the 19th round was fired and probably wouldn't load the 20th rd. Something would have to me made to install in the drum's tower wall for the dummy round to push in position to activate the lrbho. I don't think the dummy round itself could activate the device. For one I'm not sure it will come up high enough. Another is the dummy round would have to be in the same position everytime and it is free floating like a regular round so that would be a problem. I installed an extra rim on the dummy round (viewable in the drum pic in the photo page of my site) as a way to keep the dummy round from falling out when the mag was empty. I think that the extra rim could be used to push a little bar or something up to activate the lrbho. the extra rim guide track is right behind the location of the activator for the lrbho device. There has to be a somewhat easy way to get it to activate the device and I am going to work on figuring something out once the drums are being ran in production grade material. I really hope someone or I can figure something out because it would be the cats ass! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vangcomper 0 Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I can't wait to buy the 3" version. I just hope I get the same buy it now cheaper deal that the 2 3/4" people get. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kennobi 0 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Mike, Just had to register on this forum to congratulate you on a fantastic job of work!, after reading all 17 pages of posts your commitment to this project and the quality of the project is inspiring. All I can do is to wish you great sales and hope that you will soon be able to provide these drums to your cousins across the pond as this will make practical shotgun immense - beats trying to reload extended tube mags anyday! Greetings to all from the UK shooters. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowak 12 Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Whats the expected production/ship date? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Whats the expected production/ship date? I am expecting the middle to end of October. It maybe later if the molds need tweaked to perfection though. Also other things could delay it like, if the component providers or material providers don't deliver on time. I could have everything ready but if the polymer or any of the metal components aren't on time it would shut the whole production process down. I tried to pick big name companies for these things to make it less likely to happen. But it is still a possibility for them to cause me a delay and I have to keep it in mind. Everything is going very smoothly so far though!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaiganFire 0 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Mike, Thank you. Everything looks great to me. How does it feel to be the Inventor, Marketer & Distributor of your dream? Does it get any better than this? I believe it will get much better for you. May you find the time to enjoy your rewards and blessings, and be enriched financially and in all other ways that matter. You ~ROCK~ hard!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Mike, Thank you. Everything looks great to me. How does it feel to be the Inventor, Marketer & Distributor of your dream? Does it get any better than this? I believe it will get much better for you. May you find the time to enjoy your rewards and blessings, and be enriched financially and in all other ways that matter. You ~ROCK~ hard!!! It feels great. It will get better when I get my type 7 manufacturing license and pay the sot tax. It will be time to start having fun then!!!! I am going to look into a belt-fed 12ga when I get it. I think I can make something better than the AA-12 that takes both belts and mags! And put 2 in every squad! Of course I would also make a civilian semi-auto version if it was approved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 A belt-fed saiga would be fun.... Mike, Thank you. Everything looks great to me. How does it feel to be the Inventor, Marketer & Distributor of your dream? Does it get any better than this? I believe it will get much better for you. May you find the time to enjoy your rewards and blessings, and be enriched financially and in all other ways that matter. You ~ROCK~ hard!!! It feels great. It will get better when I get my type 7 manufacturing license and pay the sot tax. It will be time to start having fun then!!!! I am going to look into a belt-fed 12ga when I get it. I think I can make something better than the AA-12 that takes both belts and mags! And put 2 in every squad! Of course I would also make a civilian semi-auto version if it was approved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 A belt-fed saiga would be fun.... It sure would!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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