Dented Brass?

[D@D 0]

I was out shooting my Saiga 223 and noticed that all the brass was dented in the middle of every single one what could have caused this?

 

 

[aka108 0]

Striking the receiver cover on it's way out during ejection. Pretty forceful on AK types.

[JK-47 33]

I had read somewhere that it was the bolt handle that caused the ding in the middle of the case, vaguely rember seeing a slow motion video of it happening. The case is ejected and outside of the reciver cover but not yet clear of the path of the bolt carrier handle when it slams forward, striking the case in midair. I'm not 100% on this, but to me it makes more sense when looking at the shape and location of the dent. The easy way to settle this is pad either the reciever cover or the bolt handle in somthing rubbery to absorb the impact. If one doesn't fix it, it's probably the other. However, this post refutes what I suggest and supports AK108's statement: Dented Cases

[Oswald2001 0]

That's just the famous "AK Kiss".

 

AK's mangle cartridge cases. That's just how it goes.

[kresk 10,063]

Striking the receiver cover on it's way out during ejection. Pretty forceful on AK types.

Been told the same by an experienced gunsmith very familiar with AK's.

[railroader 0]

Just to the left of the bolt handle on the bolt is where the shells hit. If you look you will see how it has a sharp edge and that's where the brass gets dented. It lines up with the extractor. On my saiga I rounded that edge slightly with a file. The brass now is in pretty good shape instead having the big dent. My problem is finding the brass. My rifle really flings the brass. Mark

Edited April 20, 2007 by railroader

[Bad Bob 0]

Just to the left of the bolt handle on the bolt is where the shells hit. If you look you will see how it has a sharp edge and that's where the brass gets dented. It lines up with the extractor. On my saiga I rounded that edge slightly with a file. The brass now is in pretty good shape instead having the big dent. My problem is finding the brass. My rifle really flings the brass. Mark

From what I've read, the Finns made a clip-on rubber 'bumper' for the receiver cover of their AK-derived (Valmet) firearms, to protect the brass. Obviously, the Saiga is made in Russia, not Finland (& according to Russian rather than Finnish specs), so I would guess that railroader has the more applicable experience - so I would start with what he recommends, if recovering the brass is an important comsideration...

[kresk 10,063]

Wouldn't it make more sense that if the "bumper" on the receiver cover prevents dented brass that the shell must hit this first before the bolt and so the cover causes the dent and not the bolt?

[JK-47 33]

Yes, there is a very strong consensus that it's the reciever cover, it seems to be the source of the dented brass. I guess the next question is who's got the tutorial on fixing it yourself or a point of sale for these brass- saving buffers.

[Oswald2001 0]

Yes. The brass gets dented by the receiver cover.

 

That's why the Finnish put the buffer on the receiver cover and not the bolt.

 

I have seen genuine Valmet receiver cover buffers sell for $100-$150! Yikes!!!!

 

 

With the price of ammo these days...and so many people getting into reloading because of it...why isn't anyone manufacturing these buffers to be used in all AK's?

 

For years, I have expected somebody like KVAR to have offered a reproduction of the Valmet buffer.

[Bad Bob 0]

Wouldn't it make more sense that if the "bumper" on the receiver cover prevents dented brass that the shell must hit this first before the bolt and so the cover causes the dent and not the bolt?

That makes perfect sense! But there are other factors that might potentially be involved (like the location & configuration of the ejector, and the design of the extractor & receiver cover). I have no idea if a 5.56 Valmet is identical to a .223 Saiga in all regards, so I figured it would be worth considering 'the voice of experience'...

[6500rpm 670]

Wouldn't a buffer on the cover interfer with the bolt carrier? I've never paid much attention to where it hits, but couldn't you just open the opening in the cover, the extractor and ejector should determine where the brass goes.

[pogy 5]

I'm just guessing but I would think that cutting the receiver cover farther back would cause the shells to eject to the side or rear. That could be a problem if you're in a foxhole and your comrade is to your right. If we're talking about a range, allowances could be made if it would save the brass.

I'm hoping that some enterprising soul on this site would copy the Valmet buffer. I'm sure that they could make themselves a few bucks.

[vjor 2]

take the cover off and try few shots with out the cover

see what happens.

 

 

LOL.

 

 

If you do that, look were your brass lands and what direction it gets

trow, that will tell you a lot of stuff, like if you can cut the cover and

still get the brass been trow away in same direction were it lands now or is going to go flying

some were else.

 

If still dents the brass is the bottom of bolt carrier, hitting the round on the mag as it feed

a fresh round on chamber, I see that happen with brass, not with steel case.

[JK-47 33]

If anyone is interested Valmet buffers for 45$: RobertRTG Honnestly though, somone should take this idea to whomever is behind Blackjack Buffers. They seem pretty savy and are already in buisness of manufacturing rubber buffers- this one would just go elsewhere on the rifle.

[MD_Willington 11]

How about trying a piece of plastic door edge that you'd use on a car or truck door ?

 

[Blackjack 1]

If anyone is interested Valmet buffers for 45$: RobertRTG Honnestly though, somone should take this idea to whomever is behind Blackjack Buffers. They seem pretty savy and are already in buisness of manufacturing rubber buffers- this one would just go elsewhere on the rifle.

 

That would be me (Randy AKA Blackjack).....

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

If anyone is interested Valmet buffers for 45$: RobertRTG Honnestly though, somone should take this idea to whomever is behind Blackjack Buffers. They seem pretty savy and are already in buisness of manufacturing rubber buffers- this one would just go elsewhere on the rifle.

 

That would be me (Randy AKA Blackjack).....

 

Go for it dude, my brass will thank you.

[Krom 36]

take the cover off and try few shots with out the cover

see what happens.

 

 

LOL.

 

 

If you do that, look were your brass lands and what direction it gets

trow, that will tell you a lot of stuff, like if you can cut the cover and

still get the brass been trow away in same direction were it lands now or is going to go flying

some were else.

 

If still dents the brass is the bottom of bolt carrier, hitting the round on the mag as it feed

a fresh round on chamber, I see that happen with brass, not with steel case.

 

 

Yeah I'm kinda thinking that modifying the angle and shortening of the fixed tang that pushes the spent cases out would be a better option, as all the cosmetic's of the mod are all internal.

Plus, with the large amount force applied to the casings during ejection IE the shells flying 15+ft and dents the shit out of the case.

It makes sense that it would be good to reduce the amount and direction/rotation of force being exerted on the spent casings, and I don't think it would effect the reliability of the weapon at all.

It should just make it better for reloading and less dangerous to people on the right side on the firing line due the reduced velocity/ft lbs of the flying casings. Not to mention it would make it WAY easier to find the spent casings since they near the location of the shooter.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Krom