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Thinking of Getting a Saiga .223


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First off I am new to this forum and I am sorry for asking newb questions but I would like answers please or links to where i can find the answers. Thanx.

 

I recently purchased a Kel Tec SU16CA and it is messed up( the extractor is broken) apparently this is common with SU16s but come on I only have 120 rds. through it. So I am probably getting my money back on it!

 

With my return money I am thinking of getting a Saiga .223 but i need to know the cons of this gun if any!

 

cons like: do i need to buy parts to make it work right? Can I use Wolf Ammo? Is there a web site that I can order 10 rd. mags from?

 

I do not plan on converting the gun mainly because I live in California so no need to post problems when trying to convert.

 

Basically I want to know if this gun will work "perfectly" out of the box with no modifications to it?

 

Please help me Just give me any problems with this gun if any. Thank you.

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A Saiga will function flawlessly with steel cased russian ammo, it was designed to do so. No concerns about its function or problem parts, it should work as a Kalashnikov should- all the time, every time. They are known to dent brass casings, but a buffer or slight alteration of the reciever cover would prevent that. I believe the only real con to the saiga is that you may not be allowed to own one in California.

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My .223 Saiga worked flawlessly right out of the box. The reason I bought an AK was because of its reputation of reliability.

You don't need any parts to make it work right. The stock trigger setup is adequate but the G2 conversion is much smoother IMHO.

I bought an additional 10 rd mag last year but don't remember where from.

I did find this link though.

Good luck with your new Saiga!

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I have both a .223 saiga and a keltec. My keltec also has had it's share of extractor problems. I changed the extractor to a stag ar extractor. Also before I take the keltec shooting I clean the chamber with brake cleaner and an ar chamber brush which seems to eliminate the problem. The saiga is totally reliable but it does tend to bang up the brass and throw it far which can be a problem if you reload. Wolf works fine in the saiga. Accuracy wise the two rifles are pretty close with maybe a slight edge going

to the keltec. The keltec has a better trigger pull. It is shorter and lighter. The saiga trigger isn't bad but it is more like a good sks trigger where it is long but predictable. Mag changes are much easier and faster on the keltec than the saiga, you have to rock the saiga mags in. That said if I had to choose between the two I would give the edge to the saiga because of reliability with any ammo. I like my keltec but extraction issues have been a problem. Mark

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Have you ever seen the picks of the KelTec SU-16 kaboom? 47jvwo2.jpgI belive the thread is still on the KelTec forums somewhere, the poor thing was reduced to shraphnel. I think I'd rather lug a little more weight arround and have the security of an all steel reciver than opt for the lightweight polymer (and inflated price) of an SU-16. Edit: Found a pic of a different KelTec that gave up the ghost:DSC01674.jpg

Edited by JK-47
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Wait im getting a lot of mixed messages There are a lot of people that say the Saiga 223 is legal in cali but just as many that say its not. Even stanleys pro shop says you cant have it but I have read a lot of posts on other forums on people saying it's legal in cali and that they have one.

 

Apparently they say it could be illegal because its name is banned or something.

 

Could someone please shed some light on this preferably someone from cali. Thanx again

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Assault rifles are supposed to be listed by make and model in california or have certain features which a stock saiga doesn't have. There is a listing for "kalashinikov usa" saiga. There isn't a listing for "russian american amory" or "european amory" saigas. All three are identical because they are made by izmash(I think that's right) but they have different importers. So technically only "kalashnikov usa" versions are illegal because the DOJ listed by importer not manufacturer. Here's some more info, look at the Harrot decision part. http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm Mark

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Hello, and welcome to this forum! i have also recently purchased one of these, an the only thing that I see in it's unaltered state is that the trigger pull is not good at all! Very heavy and gritty. In this and other caliber threads there are several suggested ways to get around this, but basically I think that any good gunsmith can smooth this out to make the trigger at least a little lighter and less "crunchy"

 

The cost of the 10 rounders is far & away higher than the cost of hi-caps, so IF LEGAL, then you may want to seriously invest in the hi-cap route. the cost of a few 10-rounders will greatly exceed the cost of hi-caps + conversion.

 

Also, even if you leave it unaltered, but still want more of a "military" look, then you may want to look at the Dragunov-type stock that is available from gilbert's guns, and you can install it legally for about $80. Super Battle Rifle G3 on this board offers some gorgeous wood for the Saiga, but you want to make sure that he offers it for the unaltered gun as well.

 

The only other thing is optics mounting, but the Saiga comes with a rail and any of the admittedly expensive russian scopes at Binocular Smart or Aklinka Opetics will fit, but be aware that there is a great mount for these gusn at CDNN that will accept Weaver rings. J&G Sales offers one that is steel wtih integral rings, but the scope is basically non-adjustable within the tight rings, but at least it is made of steeel. Be sure to get a substantial mount, and not that cheap-o Aluminum mount for about $20-30 that is on the market. Start with a good foundation, and you have a good result. The only other optic option is the Ultimak mount, and you will have to alter the handguards sightly to fit.

 

Hope this answers your questions.

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The only other thing is optics mounting, but the Saiga comes with a rail and any of the admittedly expensive russian scopes at Binocular Smart or Aklinka Opetics will fit,

 

I don't think that the Russian scopes are that expensive. Considering that a .223's optimal range is about 250 meters, a POSP 4 X 24 with an integral mount goes for about $140-150 delivered. Russian (former U.S.S.R.) military products are high quality and very rugged. They are built to last and they do. After you have spent $50 on a good mount, try and find a quality optic for $90 -$100 that matches the POSP! Barska? Tasco? etc.

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If these things aren't legal in California then I'm in trouble as I just brought home two of them.. I guess my FFL would be as well as he's got a safe full of them ;)

 

Seriously thou I got a 7.62x39 and a .223 from ddsranch.com They will sell to Cali and hook you up with an FFL that will do the transfer.

 

I actually like the look of the 7.62 one slightly more becaue it's got the dimples on it and the trigger is "slightly" better but for those of us in Cali this is the best thing going on right now for the least amount of cash.

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Wait im getting a lot of mixed messages There are a lot of people that say the Saiga 223 is legal in cali but just as many that say its not. Even stanleys pro shop says you cant have it but I have read a lot of posts on other forums on people saying it's legal in cali and that they have one.

 

Apparently they say it could be illegal because its name is banned or something.

 

Could someone please shed some light on this preferably someone from cali. Thanx again

FWIW, I might suggest that you go to several of your local Kalifornia FFLs (which you will have to do for delivery anyway), and check with them. As folks here have mentioned, the 'ban' apparently lists firearms by importer, not manufacturer. If one FFL gives you a 'thumbs down,' check around for one who can actually read the law. Have a printed copy of the law with you. If you can legally purchase a .223 Saiga in Kalifornia, through a Kalifornia FFL, my advice would be, GO FOR IT!!! If you buy it through a local FFL, HE can explain the specific requirements of the law to the dumb-@ss Kalifornia bureaucrats. I 'lived' in Kalifornia for 20 years - I know (unfortunately) what you have to deal with. If you can get a stock .223 Saiga, come back here to ask around for extra 10-rd magazines - a lot of guys here don't need them. Keep in mind, 10-rds is 25% more than your dad and/or grand-dad had available in their Garands - and they 'kicked @ss'...

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I'm thinking of getting a Saiga in .223 because of the AK reliability and because the Galil costs over $800 with an ORF receiver and the Yugo in 5.56 part kits than a Saiga .223 in the box which I don't have to build. The Yugo parts kits cost about $400 and I would need a DCI receiver which costs another $100 and $40 for a US compliance kit and Yugo 5.56 magazines cost about $40.

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Gents,

 

 

 

 

I just purchased my Saiga 16" barrel in .223 from the AMMO Brothers in Cerritos, he has about 20 of them left, many in .223 and many in 7.62x39. He has both 7.62x51 models in synthetic and wood. I am extremely pleased with the rifle, the fit the finish are excellent and where else can you get a Kalashnikov based rifle from Izmash that is California legal.

The reason that the rifle is legal is because as someone pointed out earlier, the rifle is NOT on the Roberti-Roos ban list. The Kalashnikov USA model is, Harrot vs Kings County was the court ruling that made it possible. The court ruled that AK and AR rifles could not be banned by series designation, rifles must be listed by manufacturer, and model number. The RAA and EAA rifles are not so designated.

Saiga gurus, I need your help, I do not care for the stock set that the rifle comes with. I would like to put a standard handguard, and an extended buttstock. I do not care for the standard AK length buttstock, as it is to short. I went to KVAR and they have stock sets, for milled AK,stamped AK, NATO length, WARSAW Pact length, 1.25 inch extended HELP!!!!!. I am only going to change out the buttstock and lower and upper handguard. I PLAN NO FURTHER MODIFICATIONS. Any how, thanks for all your help. FOR CALIFORNIA GUN OWNERS, IF I MAY, DO NOT MODIFY THE MAGAZINE CATCH IN ANY WAY, DO NOT MODIFY THE MAGAZINES, AND DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADD A PISTOL GRIP, DO SO AT YOUR OWN PERIL. As the rifle comes to the state is acceptable, NO SB 23 evil features, no pistol grip, no flash suppressor, no collaspsable stock. It is ok to change the buttstock and hanguards, but to standard configuration.

Moderator, I am only posting AMMO BROS contact info to those interested in getting a Saiga without a transfer delaer from outside California. Ammo Bros are available at 562-865-3980.

 

P.S. Are there any 922R issues with changing the stock set ?.

 

 

Thanks, USMCM16A2

Edited by USMCM16A2
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got to shoot one this weekend and i have to say it was a fun rifle to shoot. nary a malfunction to it and it was shooting both reloads and some wolf. the only thing i had to figure out was the trigger pull and the guy who was letting me shoot it told me to wrap my finger to the first joint of the index finger and try to pull it there. there is some trigger pull but i got the end of the play it was a solid trigger pull and i am working on getting one real soon. i am trying to debate between the 223 and the 7.62x39. at this time i am leaning towards the 39 but things can change for sure. there are conversions you can get but i like to go with what i brung so to speak and keep them as close to original as possible. i would also like to find out if they have a cheek mount to help you because with the scope on you have to hold your head higher than normally. once i figured those little quirks i found it to be a great little rifle and well worth the money

good luck and you can almost buy two of the siagas for one of the su16's

rob k

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