MikeD's Drum Live Fire Video

[MikeD 541]

Please post question in the thread in this link. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=16417 But feel free to comment here. I am just trying to keep questions all in one place.

 

I had some problems with the durability of the prototype. As mentioned before, the post that the gear sits on snapped right where the clip went to hold it on after about 10 rds. I drilled the post out and was going to bolt the to pieces back together. I couldn't find a bolt the right size (1/8 inch by 3 1/2 inches) What I used instead was a 1/8 inch rod of abs. I slide it through the 2 pieces and melted the ends down and it has held up ever since. 1/8 inch of abs is holding together what 1/4 inch of layered abs couldn't. Just goes to show how much stronger an injected mag will be than the prototyped one.

 

The problem with the prototype process is it is made of 1000's of layers applied one on top of the other. It leaves a grain kind of like wood. I needed where the tower meets the body to be against the grain so the tower wouldn't shear off. This made the grain running top to bottom which made the gear post and mag catch weak.

 

As you can see in the videos I was having a problem with the front mag catch. I had to repair it many times. Anyways. I wasn't able to do a complete mag dump ( because of the weight of a fully loaded drum being multiplied by the recoil.

 

First thing I did fire about 10 3inch mags through it and the gear post broke. After I fixed that I was afraid to fire anymore high brass through it. I did fire some Russian steel case 2 3/4 through it. They are about as long as your average 3 inch rd.

 

The video is a combination of 4 clips. I keep the rd count low to keep the drum lighter. The first clip shows a couple rds of walmart cheapo's and the front catch break. The 2nd shows 4 rds of remington cheapo's. the 3rd clip shows 5rds of speer lawman 8 pellet 00 buck. The 4th clip shows 10rds of mixed winchester and remington and the front catch break again.

 

Please note that the production model will be way way stronger. The front catch will have metal in it like the russian mags and the material and process will make it multiple times stronger.

 

I do need to get one more prototype made. I had to change something on this prototype and need to adjust the cad drawing. After I adjust the cad I would feel best to make another prototype to make sure the drawing is right. This will no doubt delay the production date. But I would rather be a couple weeks late and insure a quality product. I'm sure you can appreciate that. There is a prototype process that will make the proto out of fiber filled nylon. The process is called SLS. It is a lot more expensive than the FDM process (ABS plastic). I might have the next one made out of it so it will be stronger for testing. I am going to call the prototype company and find out just how much stronger the SLS is than the FDM process.

 

I am going to try to make it to the mold shop this week to make the adjustment to the cad drawing so I can get the ( hopefully and more than likely) last prototype made.

 

Hope you enjoy the video and can look past the prototype's weakness. It does show and prove function and existence though. Also shows size and looks. It won't be long and they will be available.

 

 

Read This I had to make the videos individual. If you are only going to watch one watch #4

Here is the link:

#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZjlfQy0sAc

#2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H5v9kN01kg

#3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbN8WQ4gyH4

#4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqXKsMldFc

Edited May 9, 2007 by Mike Davidson

[IndyArms 10,186]

Looks good, bro...

 

I am sure the final runs will be exceptional!!

 

 

[MikeD 541]

Looks good, bro...

 

I am sure the final runs will be exceptional!!

 

 

Thanks. They will be great in black. I was really hoping the FDM proto would have been strong enough.

[TEXASAK73 13]

Looks good, bro...

 

I am sure the final runs will be exceptional!!

 

 

Thanks. They will be great in black. I was really hoping the FDM proto would have been strong enough.

 

 

Well I'm sold on this for sure.

Edited May 9, 2007 by TEXASAK73

[gunboy69 50]

I applaud you for showing the video, imperfections and all. You leave yourself open for attacks from Jackasses, but you got it done man. The issues you have in the video are very small. That thing looks sweet! Great job!

[MikeD 541]

I applaud you for showing the video, imperfections and all. You leave yourself open for attacks from Jackasses, but you got it done man. The issues you have in the video are very small. That thing looks sweet! Great job!

I know most people will see it for what it is. Something that won't be an issue with the production. Of course there will probably be a few that think it is a design problem. But they will know soon enough it works, and very, very well. I am very glad the drum will now take both rounds.

[gunboy69 50]

Ya, I would want one either way, but thats a plus taking both rounds.

[dinzag 31]

Cool Mikey! Thanks for sharing!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

What really amazes me is the number of idiots out there that just have to have constant updates and live fire video proof before they will stop their bitching and doubting long enough to see you are serious. For me the hand cycling video in the bag was good enough. I could have easily sat back and waited patiently for however long it took for you to post a successful video of you ripping off 20 rds into a bottle of champaign to celebrate. I guess having a left and a right brain has it's advantages...

 

Lookin good bro...take your time and keep up the good work.

[Makc 64]

Looking good Man!!!

[whatmanual 44]

+1 for truth in advertising as they say.

 

Good to see the development process standing behind the postives and the negatives you have.

 

Im just down the road from you Mike. I'll make a trip up that way once you get a full version working and help shoot the vid etc. Got an idea for that front catch.

 

 

Where were you shooting at?

 

 

~Steve

[scoutjoe 276]

For me the hand cycling video in the bag was good enough. I could have easily sat back and waited patiently for however long it took for you to post a successful video of you ripping off 20 rds into a bottle of champaign to celebrate.

 

I'm feeling the same way, so Mike...don't kill yourself to get these updates up. As much as we whine, we'll live if ya keep us in the dark for 24 hours. That being said thanks for the update, looking forward to helping you recoup some of your investment costs

[Berszerk 0]

Outfricken standing Mike, I for one appreciate your hard work, and look forward to doing buisiness with you soon. Its great to see someone walking the walk.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Looking good and on schedule. On schedule for me is prior to the elections. Excellent!!!!

[kmoore 3]

Excellent!

 

Minor criticism, take up whatamaul on his offer. These videos have too much Mike and not enough DRUM!!!!

 

I do need to get one more prototype made. I had to change something on this prototype and need to adjust the cad drawing. After I adjust the cad I would feel best to make another prototype to make sure the drawing is right. This will no doubt delay the production date. But I would rather be a couple weeks late and insure a quality product. I'm sure you can appreciate that. There is a prototype process that will make the proto out of fiber filled nylon. The process is called SLS. It is a lot more expensive than the FDM process (ABS plastic). I might have the next one made out of it so it will be stronger for testing. I am going to call the prototype company and find out just how much stronger the SLS is than the FDM process.

 

Likely, I'm stating the obvious. These are the kind of delays that I would expect and are NORMAL. You are doing the right thing, make this thing live up to your expectations, not some artificial deadline!!!! ETA, "artificial deadline" is the exact term someone else used in the other forum. they help get stuff done, but AD's rarely contribute to quality ...

 

My (uniformed) vote is that the main thing that needs to be tested now is the ability for the drum to feed the entire contents (by trigger, not hand cycling). So a production spring, and a strong prototype that can take the torque forces delivered on a full mag under fire conditions, that's all I see that is lacking.

 

I love your ability to work thru the broken part!!!

 

You know I hate a 3" shell I wouldn't test that till last. Worst of all worlds (heavier full drum, heavier recoil).

 

I hope these updates never stand in the way of your progress, but I think they are valuable. Spoke with another owner, he's excited about the closed in design of this drum (his background is very military!)

Edited May 9, 2007 by kmoore

[GunsRfun 0]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

Edited May 9, 2007 by GunsRfun

[Gimik 0]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

Most excellent. +1 customer here.

[inparidel 4]

I am dazzled. So all you guys don't care anymore if your kids, grandkids, or, hell, even you get to own, keep and use these fine sporter shotguns?? We now want to accellerate losing our rights? I remember when we used to all post things like," IF you DO ever design and or build one of these things, PLEASE!!! enjoy it in the privacy of your own home area and DO NOT post its existence and PLEASE do not post pics." If you really do love these fine Russian sporters, and if you REALLY DO want to own, keep and use them, then WHY TF?????

[gunboy69 50]

Inparidel,

I totally understand where you are coming from,but if someone (Mike) sinks everything he has into making a drum,and gets approval from theBATF,what can you do?

Its to late to talk him out of it. The fact is its already a reality,its too late to turn back. There are two working drums for the s-12,and they will go to market.

What should we do ban them from our little Saiga world,and pull the covers over our heads? You make sense, but whats done is done.

[avatar 4]

I am dazzled. So all you guys don't care anymore if your kids, grandkids, or, hell, even you get to own, keep and use these fine sporter shotguns?? We now want to accellerate losing our rights? I remember when we used to all post things like," IF you DO ever design and or build one of these things, PLEASE!!! enjoy it in the privacy of your own home area and DO NOT post its existence and PLEASE do not post pics." If you really do love these fine Russian sporters, and if you REALLY DO want to own, keep and use them, then WHY TF?????

 

 

I for one am getting tired of criminals whittling away at my RIGHTS. Take any more, there's gonna be WAR.

[jaak 0]

I am dazzled. So all you guys don't care anymore if your kids, grandkids, or, hell, even you get to own, keep and use these fine sporter shotguns?? We now want to accellerate losing our rights? I remember when we used to all post things like," IF you DO ever design and or build one of these things, PLEASE!!! enjoy it in the privacy of your own home area and DO NOT post its existence and PLEASE do not post pics." If you really do love these fine Russian sporters, and if you REALLY DO want to own, keep and use them, then WHY TF?????

 

 

I for one am getting tired of criminals whittling away at my RIGHTS. Take any more, there's gonna be WAR.

 

i forsee a mod getting sand in their vag over this comment...

[joehilarious 0]

Please post question in the thread in this link. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=16417 But feel free to comment here. I am just trying to keep questions all in one place.

 

I had some problems with the durability of the prototype. As mentioned before, the post that the gear sits on snapped right where the clip went to hold it on after about 10 rds. I drilled the post out and was going to bolt the to pieces back together. I couldn't find a bolt the right size (1/8 inch by 3 1/2 inches) What I used instead was a 1/8 inch rod of abs. I slide it through the 2 pieces and melted the ends down and it has held up ever since. 1/8 inch of abs is holding together what 1/4 inch of layered abs couldn't. Just goes to show how much stronger an injected mag will be than the prototyped one.

 

The problem with the prototype process is it is made of 1000's of layers applied one on top of the other. It leaves a grain kind of like wood. I needed where the tower meets the body to be against the grain so the tower wouldn't shear off. This made the grain running top to bottom which made the gear post and mag catch weak.

 

As you can see in the videos I was having a problem with the front mag catch. I had to repair it many times. Anyways. I wasn't able to do a complete mag dump ( because of the weight of a fully loaded drum being multiplied by the recoil.

 

First thing I did fire about 10 3inch mags through it and the gear post broke. After I fixed that I was afraid to fire anymore high brass through it. I did fire some Russian steel case 2 3/4 through it. They are about as long as your average 3 inch rd.

 

The video is a combination of 4 clips. I keep the rd count low to keep the drum lighter. The first clip shows a couple rds of walmart cheapo's and the front catch break. The 2nd shows 4 rds of remington cheapo's. the 3rd clip shows 5rds of speer lawman 8 pellet 00 buck. The 4th clip shows 10rds of mixed winchester and remington and the front catch break again.

 

Please note that the production model will be way way stronger. The front catch will have metal in it like the russian mags and the material and process will make it multiple times stronger.

 

I do need to get one more prototype made. I had to change something on this prototype and need to adjust the cad drawing. After I adjust the cad I would feel best to make another prototype to make sure the drawing is right. This will no doubt delay the production date. But I would rather be a couple weeks late and insure a quality product. I'm sure you can appreciate that. There is a prototype process that will make the proto out of fiber filled nylon. The process is called SLS. It is a lot more expensive than the FDM process (ABS plastic). I might have the next one made out of it so it will be stronger for testing. I am going to call the prototype company and find out just how much stronger the SLS is than the FDM process.

 

I am going to try to make it to the mold shop this week to make the adjustment to the cad drawing so I can get the ( hopefully and more than likely) last prototype made.

 

Hope you enjoy the video and can look past the prototype's weakness. It does show and prove function and existence though. Also shows size and looks. It won't be long and they will be available.

 

 

Read This I had to make the videos individual. If you are only going to watch one watch #4

Here is the link:

#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZjlfQy0sAc

#2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H5v9kN01kg

#3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbN8WQ4gyH4

#4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqXKsMldFc

 

 

Kudos on the live fire. You are on you way.

[mccumber1916 1]

I am dazzled. So all you guys don't care anymore if your kids, grandkids, or, hell, even you get to own, keep and use these fine sporter shotguns?? We now want to accellerate losing our rights? I remember when we used to all post things like," IF you DO ever design and or build one of these things, PLEASE!!! enjoy it in the privacy of your own home area and DO NOT post its existence and PLEASE do not post pics." If you really do love these fine Russian sporters, and if you REALLY DO want to own, keep and use them, then WHY TF?????

 

ask wraithmaker

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I am dazzled. So all you guys don't care anymore if your kids, grandkids, or, hell, even you get to own, keep and use these fine sporter shotguns?? We now want to accellerate losing our rights? I remember when we used to all post things like," IF you DO ever design and or build one of these things, PLEASE!!! enjoy it in the privacy of your own home area and DO NOT post its existence and PLEASE do not post pics." If you really do love these fine Russian sporters, and if you REALLY DO want to own, keep and use them, then WHY TF?????

 

 

I for one am getting tired of criminals whittling away at my RIGHTS. Take any more, there's gonna be WAR.

 

i forsee a mod getting sand in their vag over this comment...

 

Look JAAK, none of us mods here have a "VAG"!

[mccumber1916 1]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

 

not to mention he left it's uncooperative ass on the ground

[MikeD 541]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

 

not to mention he left it's uncooperative ass on the ground

I am suprised no one mentioned the saiga in the gravel. This is the saiga I am going to do a torture test on a drum while attached to the gun. It will probably be pretty beat up when I'm done.

[mccumber1916 1]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

 

not to mention he left it's uncooperative ass on the ground

I am suprised no one mentioned the saiga in the gravel. This is the saiga I am going to do a torture test on a drum while attached to the gun. It will probably be pretty beat up when I'm done.

 

it is a saga... i've laid mine in the gravel

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

LOL at video #1 and #4. in #4 it looks like your laughing too when the drum falls out. i had no interest in a drum when it was 1st talked about. but your drum has me interested now. looks like your not having feeding problims even with the flimsy prototype. keep up the good work.

 

not to mention he left it's uncooperative ass on the ground

I am suprised no one mentioned the saiga in the gravel. This is the saiga I am going to do a torture test on a drum while attached to the gun. It will probably be pretty beat up when I'm done.

 

it is a saga... i've laid mine in the gravel

It's an AK...you can halfway fill the receiver with gravel and it will still work

[KyleWeiss 0]

Mike you've already mentioned and isolated the weak points on the prototype, and it's obvious your design was never meant to work in a plastic form. Those videos were great!!! I really like how you designed the drums to be held together with those screws that surround the outside of the drum. It seems really solid to me. I have money stashed away for you; just say the word when you're ready.

 

KW

[Bvamp 604]

i forsee a mod getting sand in their vag over this comment...

 

 

things have changed. drums should go forward, is what the 5 staff members here have decided, and this forum should back whoever is making them.

 

this reply here that I am posting, please let's not start argueing in here. I would love to argue about it in the "fight club", if anyone is up to it. Im posting this here because it is an ongoing issue and concern for EVERYONE, and it has already been brought up by a couple of you. lets not get offtrack in this topic.

 

with that said.

 

 

it would be nice if the damned ATF would rule the drum and gun in combination is the DD, not the gun itself, and get out of this bullshit "any shotgun that can take a drum is a DD" attitude. we need to work WITH the law and the lawmakers, NOT against them, so that this stupid bullshit with the gun control STOPS. we NEED SOME laws. ones that make SENSE and are 100% clear. NOT this crap we have now. we also need to work WITH the ATF to find ways to get what needs done, done, and without screwing people out of thier rights.

 

...but go ahead and scream "NO GUN CONTROL". Im sure the liberals will write a few more laws unassisted that screw us all. just dont say I didnt tell you so when after you tell me that Im a traitor for working tword that goal, when the stupid assed laws come from people who dont know the first thing about our second amendmant right.

 

george washington had a musket, yeh, but he wasnt being shot at with ak47's and 50 caliber rifles, like OUR enemies (Ive defined my term of the word "enemy" in other threads here) can, do, will, and have done. the gun grabbers think that our forefathers didnt forsee firearms progressing in design and technological benefit? COME ON NOW. thats fucking stupid.