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How to keep my Saiga loaded for HD


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Hi guys!

 

I've got a stock Saiga, shot it for the first time this weekend (woowee!). I really like it, and I plan on keeping it as a home defense shotgun. My question is how best to keep it loaded.

 

First off, I would prefer strongly not to keep a shell loaded in the chamber. This is personal preference, and I know many people prefer one in the pipe, safety on, but I'd rather not, myself.

 

Secondly, I'd love to have the magazine already in, but something I noted when I was shooting it, I could not load the magazine in unless the bolt was locked back. At least, I couldn't do it easily and I didn't want to force it and break it, without knowing. I really don't want to store it with the bolt held open!

 

So is there a way to load the magazine in, and have the bolt closed on an empty chamber? I'm using the factory 5-rounder. There may be a really simple answer, but I'm a newbie, so that's why I'm here asking. Many thanks for your replies!

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EustaceLufgren, you can insert a loaded magazine into your Saiga with the bolt closed/forward. You simply need to be forceful about inserting the mag and locking it into place.

 

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me here.

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OK! Just wanted to make sure...mag being plastic and all, I didn't want to do anything ill-advised.

 

I'm a little in awe of the firepower of this gun! And what a blast to shoot!

 

No worries. But before you do as I suggested.... I'd wait for someone else to reply from this forum that I am correct.

 

I haven't done this myself, but I remember reading about this very issue from a previously posted forum thread. The answer essentially was: "just smack it in there!"

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OK! Just wanted to make sure...mag being plastic and all, I didn't want to do anything ill-advised.

 

I'm a little in awe of the firepower of this gun! And what a blast to shoot!

 

Just tilt the mag back and press the business end of the first round into the magwell against the bottom of the bolt carrier. You will see the first round pushing back into the mag as you lock the front catch in. Keep rocking back until the rear catch locks in. Once you do it a couple of times, it gets easier.

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OK! Just wanted to make sure...mag being plastic and all, I didn't want to do anything ill-advised.

 

I'm a little in awe of the firepower of this gun! And what a blast to shoot!

 

Just tilt the mag back and press the business end of the first round into the magwell against the bottom of the bolt carrier. You will see the first round pushing back into the mag as you lock the front catch in. Keep rocking back until the rear catch locks in. Once you do it a couple of times, it gets easier.

 

I like madmilo's suggestion a hellva more than mine (i.e., "just smack or force the magazine in"). It is always better to finesse something into place, than to force the bugger. :up:

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I had that same isue at a gun class last year. My solution (because some of my 5 rd mags still won't insert on a closed bolt no matter how much force is used) was to:

1. Lock the bolt open.

2. insert the magazine.

3. stick your finger or thumb inside the open bolt and push down on the top round.

4. Slowly release the bolt so that it slides over the first rd in the mag until it closes.

5. Bump the back of the bolt to ensure that it is completely closed.

 

The end result is a loaded mag in the gun with an empty chamber. I hope this helps.

Edited by Blaster
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I keep 9 in a 10rd mag, chamber empty,bolt closed. I never leave a mag full, I always leave 1 out of ten out.

I just prefer to not leave the springs fully compressed for long periods of time. I also use steel hulls, if you can at least

load the top round steel. If you haven't found any steel hulls yet- use a slug on top.

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B)-->

QUOTE(Michael B @ May 14 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I store all my mags empty, I read in here the springs will distort the plastic on the shells.

 

That's why I will only fill my ten rounders with max 8 runds for my HD gun.

 

i think it only distorts them when loaded against the bolt

can someone confirm or deny this theory of mine?

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(Michael B @ May 14 2007, 06:48 PM) I store all my mags empty, I read in here the springs will distort the plastic on the shells.

 

That's why I will only fill my ten rounders with max 8 runds for my HD gun.

 

i think it only distorts them when loaded against the bolt

can someone confirm or deny this theory of mine?

 

I have had that problem..(Loaded against bolt)

I have had Slugs distorted to the point of failure to feed.

 

I keep 5 rds loaded in my AGP and rotatate them out about every 2-3 days

for another mag.

 

Good thing about HD in our home is EVERYONE is packin'.. Wife, Kid, Dog ect.....

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(Michael B @ May 14 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I store all my mags empty, I read in here the springs will distort the plastic on the shells.

 

That's why I will only fill my ten rounders with max 8 runds for my HD gun.

 

i think it only distorts them when loaded against the bolt

can someone confirm or deny this theory of mine?

 

I have had that problem..(Loaded against bolt)

I have had Slugs distorted to the point of failure to feed.

 

I keep 5 rds loaded in my AGP and rotatate them out about every 2-3 days

for another mag.

 

Good thing about HD in our home is EVERYONE is packin'.. Wife, Kid, Dog ect.....

 

you better buy the right kibble then... don't want the dog to get midievel on yo ass :killer:

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We buy beef by the half!

My Dog is very loyal for a reason!!!

whenever we cook out, the Dog has what were having!

 

Now my cats on the other hand are a couple of shifty f#*kers!

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100% White Boxer.

 

Here's Petey!

 

good dog

first dog's ass my cat kicked was a cat killing boxer... he thinks he's a dog though

his sister....that drank antifreeze and died... beat the living piss out of a pitbull 10 minutes after i brought it home from the pound

poor dogs face looked like hamburger

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just a thought.... i love my S12, its my favorite of all my firearms, and for that reason i do not use it for home defense. i look at it like, if someone breaks into my house and i am forced to use lethal force against them, more than likely they will confiscate the firearm temporarily, even though there was no crime committed, due to investigative reasons. Ive got guns that are a dime a dozen that i use to protect my home, remmy and beretta, and if they were taken for a short time, i wouldnt sweat it a bit, but if i had to go without my S12 for weeks/months, i would be pissed beyond belief. i do keep my S12 next to my bed, with a loaded mag next to it, but its a last resort. within arms reach is also another 12g and 9mm

 

not exactly on topic, but my .02

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my solution for long term storage is this:

 

keep a 15 pellet load CHAMBERED. keep a mag loaded with them, or whatever you need. if you have THE TIME, you can attach the mag, and avoid shell head deforming, with the loaded round. Ive bashed my s12 every which way pretty agressively from time to time on safe with a round chambered and its never accidentally gone off.

 

you should be able to leave the bolt open if you have a last round bolt - hold - open on your gun, as well. you shouldnt have to replace the spring for YEARS if you never touch it, if ever....

 

a factory 5 would be and is my recommended choice for long term storage, due to stress and all that lovely crap.

 

I leave my s12 open bolt, with 3 15 pellet 3" bucks in the mag. havent noticed any problems from it being stored that way. it is when you OVERCOMPRESS spring steel that you have issues. if the spring in your gun's bolt assy is good, then it should last indefinately, as should the mag's. I load 3 because I shouldnt need more than that, and it is not a full mag. ALWAYS load your long term mags short, is my advice. mag springs vary a bit in tolerance.

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just a thought.... i love my S12, its my favorite of all my firearms, and for that reason i do not use it for home defense. i look at it like, if someone breaks into my house and i am forced to use lethal force against them, more than likely they will confiscate the firearm temporarily, even though there was no crime committed, due to investigative reasons. Ive got guns that are a dime a dozen that i use to protect my home, remmy and beretta, and if they were taken for a short time, i wouldnt sweat it a bit, but if i had to go without my S12 for weeks/months, i would be pissed beyond belief. i do keep my S12 next to my bed, with a loaded mag next to it, but its a last resort. within arms reach is also another 12g and 9mm

 

not exactly on topic, but my .02

 

i get that... s-12 is a hell of a lot more rare than my glock

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Fun reading about the cat and doggie sagga's.

 

I keep my 40. cal. w/lazer and tape lightg-glock in my sleeping recliner-with a back-up moseberg-riot six shot pump, as a backup to the glock. First Saiga 12 with 8 rounds in home office with a 38 P with a backup to that. Second Saiga I keep a five rnder in that.

 

I target shoot once /twice per-week, so I don't worry about rotating mags. My major concern in using any of our weapons would be for home invasion idiots.

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The trick to getting loaded magazines inserted on a closed bolt is getting the front of the mag hooked into the front lip of the mag well, and then just rocking the magazine back. You just need to use some pressure, because you will be mashing the top round up against the bolt. It's not bad once you get the hang of it.

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There was a lot of discussion about top round deforming when a mag is stored on an closed bolt some time back. Several threads. I'd think if you searched on deform you'd come up with some of it. A very long time ago, I stored some mags with differing loads for a couple of months with no ill effects, yet others have had them squash. As I have a S12 that I don't shoot, maybe I could go back and redo the experiment.

 

I think the bottom line is you should be dillegent about "checking in" on the gun at first. Check after a week, after a month, etc. Just fire the rounds, or inspect them, or hand cycle them, just to make sure they could function.

 

Some wanted to use the metal hulled as an answer, some like slugs (Jugger, yours is the first post I've seen with a deformed slug, I'd love to see a picture of that to see if we could learn anything from it, did it look like soft lead, sabot, etc), some buckshot loads (both seem less likely to deform compared to bird loads, which I think are a poor choice for HD, but that's a thread drift for another day).

 

So yeah, you can load on a closed bolt, that's probably considered a standard reload. Hook in the front, don't be shy. And welcome to the wonderful world of AK mag changes :P

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The slug it's self is ok.... Just the casing gets dis formed enough not to feed.

Not what you want to happen with your "ready" weapon.

 

 

Even if this does happen I normally can squeeze out the deformity

and get it to feed ok.. Only after a miss feed, remove an unload the mag, reshape and reload...

 

Best bet for these is open bolt or something....

slug2.jpg

slug1.jpg

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Excellent, that really helps Jugger!

 

I didn't know that there was such an offset from the front of the shell, that looks like a LOT of dead space in front of the slug.

 

Of course, it doesn't matter much to a tube fed gun, so the shell makers likely didn't give this a thought, but this is a serious design flaw for any slug that would be left under pressure with a mag fed gun.

 

wow! I'll certainly take the time to inspect any new shell that I might be thinking of buying, just to avoid this.

 

Do you know how long it took for the shell to get so bent? (hour?, day? week? month?)

 

edited to add:

Oh, that is a 3 inch shell? That is double the trouble, as it receives even more force on the tip of the shell. Looks like they put a 2 3/4 shell in a 3 inch shell body :(

Edited by kmoore
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