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dyi

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The Brown dropped off my ORF order, 4 hours later....

 

P1010008.jpg

First mod was to take AK74 Mags. Then something else...

 

P1010009.jpg

 

P1010010.jpg

 

No welding. Completely swappable. Can't do a test run until the ramp comes from Dinzag (his stuff is so good he's got a backlog ;)

 

We'll see how well she does soon!

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The Brown dropped off my ORF order, 4 hours later....

 

First mod was to take AK74 Mags. Then something else...

 

No welding. Completely swappable. Can't do a test run until the ramp comes from Dinzag (his stuff is so good he's got a backlog ;)

 

We'll see how well she does soon!

 

That's cool! Do you need to destroy 1 ak74 mag per AR mag or does it stay in place?

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The Brown dropped off my ORF order, 4 hours later....

 

First mod was to take AK74 Mags. Then something else...

 

P1010010.jpg

 

No welding. Completely swappable. Can't do a test run until the ramp comes from Dinzag (his stuff is so good he's got a backlog ;)

 

We'll see how well she does soon!

 

"Completely swappable" from AR mags back to AK74 mags?

 

There is a thread similar, but the adapter was extensively modified. Got pics of you pieces and mods showing the detail of your conversion?

I have the mag adapter, dremel, and a little patience. I modified several steel .223 AK mags to fit my Saiga, but my intent (a.k.a. dream) has been to feed it with AR mags, of which I have plenty.

 

buckmeister

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Yes, you can swap between AK74 and M16 in less than a minute. The adapter drops out just like a mag (with the mag latch). The adapter wasn't modified at all. I would rather mod the adapter than the gun but the way M16 mags are built there's no real way to get the clearance you need out of the adapter. M16 mags are full width at the front where as AK mags are narrow at the front. This is a lot easier on a milled receiver because of the amount of material and if you notice the Galil receiver narrows up at the trunion where as an AK receiver is flat all the way across the bottom.

 

This conversion isn't a slam dunk yet as I need to test for fail to feed and fail to fire. I need a bullet guide wink wink hint hint to our friendly local parts aficionado.

 

I'll do a complete how to in the next day or so. I finished up at 10 last night and was way tired.

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Curious: What, exactly, do you need to do to the chamber to properly accommodate the Mag Adapter?

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You have to widen the trunion "ears" for lack of a better term. Very similar to coverting a low cap WASR to hi-cap if anyone's ever done that before. You also need to correspondingly widen the front of the receiver mag opening and "relieve" some metal on the receiver where the new mag latch is.

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Please let us know how this shoots! I just placed an order with ORF, I may have to place annother. Thats got to be the ultimate SHTF weapon, AK .223 that can run AK74 mags or M16 mags with a quick swap of adapter. Kudos!

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I figured it could be done....pretty easy to do on my Galil, so I figured it would be about the same for a Saiga. Here is a link on a "how to" for the Galil-mag adapter mod in near the bottom of the page.

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/galil.htm

 

Good deal on your mod, your prolly going to make a lot of people happy. I'll never use anything but an AR mag in mine again, and you get the benefit of the quick drop mag set up.

Edited by 6500rpm

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I'll add the full details in the next day or so with more pics. The biggest thing is getting the feed ramp and I'm waiting on one now. I may make a temporary one to check function.

 

SHTF was where I was going with this and why I picked up the 223 last week.

 

That Galil link covers alot of the big points like the adapter being a little longer than a standard mag - hit the rear up with a file. The inside radius of the mag opening being not "square" enough

NOTE this pic is from the link above and of the Galil mods, the Saiga is similar but more involved.

aradapt2.jpg

Edited by dyi

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Shoot - I would be waiting on your every word on this conversion (it looks GREAT!), but I've got more $5 Galil Orlites than I have $14 AR Adventure Lines.

 

(Go figure... ;>)

 

For anyone with both a Saiga & an AR, who is going into this without a bunch of mags already on hand (or maybe with a bunch of AR mags available), this would be great - if it's close to 100% reliable.

 

Plus, many AR mags will provide THREE US-made 'compliance parts!'

 

I really hope you've got it 'nailed,' Sir...

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The Brown dropped off my ORF order, 4 hours later....

 

That baby looks a lot like mine - ain't she beautiful?!?!

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Conversion details:

 

First you will notice that the sides of the adapter are thicker near the bottom. This is because the bottom of the Galil receiver is sloped:

GBARE.JPG

ARADAPT.JPG

 

Well since the bottom of the stamped receiver is flat, We will either need to open the mag well up or grind down the outside of the adapter. I chose to open the mag well up. You only need to do the front half. Once you have the adapter you will see what I mean. Also the mag lock will slightly rub the receiver, you mileage may vary here, but removed some material for the lock:

P1010012.jpg

P1010017.jpg

P1010027.jpg

 

Next, you will notice that the front of the M16 mag is square unlike the typical AK design:

P1010022.jpg

 

This requires that the adapter be squared and consequently that we remove material from the sides of the front trunion and square up the front corners. You will also need to raise the bottom of the locking lugs until it misses the top of the M16 mag once installed, very similar to the AK74 no mag-mod mod but higher. Have a mag or two available before starting the conversion:

P1010021.jpg

aradapt2.jpg

 

Next check for length to the trigger guard. Mine was to tight to engage so I removed some material where it rubbed the trigger guard and some from the end of the mag lock lug:

P1010025.jpg

 

AK74 mag installed after conversion:

P1010026.jpg

 

Adapter installed after conversion:

P1010027.jpg

P1010028.jpg

 

M16 mag installed after conversion:

P1010029.jpg

 

 

Concerns at this point and use at you own risk:

1. Permanent mods to the gun (Doesn't bother me, its not likes it an 1974 underfolder)

2. Removal of backside rivet head at trunion. I've done this on other guns without issue but one might consider changing the bottom rivets to 10-32 button cap screws filed flush

3. Gun has not been test fired for lack of a bullet guide. This mod will require a bullet guide.

4. Reliability has not been tested for #3

5. Since AK74 mags are narrower in the front, this will allow the mag to twist (if you force it). Firing needs to be done to see if this has any affect in the field. I will probably make some shims that can be swapped out fast to complete this conversion.

6. Someone at gunsnet told me he did something similar to his SAR3 and the standard feed ramp wasn't high enough. A secondary feed ramp maybe needed on the front of the adapter similar to the don't-mod-the-gun hicap conversion.

 

Please let me know what other questions you have or other pics you need. My camera isn't the best at close up as its either too bright with the flash or too dark with out it.

 

I am excited to see others' conversions as well!!!

Edited by dyi

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Shoot - I would be waiting on your every word on this conversion (it looks GREAT!), but I've got more $5 Galil Orlites than I have $14 AR Adventure Lines.

 

(Go figure... ;>)

 

For anyone with both a Saiga & an AR, who is going into this without a bunch of mags already on hand (or maybe with a bunch of AR mags available), this would be great - if it's close to 100% reliable.

 

Plus, many AR mags will provide THREE US-made 'compliance parts!'

 

I really hope you've got it 'nailed,' Sir...

 

Very true and thanks. I've got tons of $4 AK74 mags from the ORF 12packs but my thoughts are this. I want one rifle that no matter what, I can carry any where, is fairly accurate, uses non-corrosive ammo, booms everytime you pull the trigger, has light but decent range ammo, uses easy to scavenge mags, and uses easy to scavenge ammo. My 47's are heavy with lots of loaded mags, my 74 uses corrosive ammo but the 223 is JUUUUUUSSSTTT RIGHTTTTTT :)

 

So the mag conversion is more of a backup to me.

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I want one rifle that no matter what, I can carry any where, is fairly accurate, uses non-corrosive ammo, booms everytime you pull the trigger, has light but decent range ammo, uses easy to scavenge mags, and uses easy to scavenge ammo. My 47's are heavy with lots of loaded mags, my 74 uses corrosive ammo but the 223 is JUUUUUUSSSTTT RIGHTTTTTT :)

Amen to that, Compadre!

 

Please keep us informed on the "booms everytime you pull the trigger" factor! I might even sell all of my Galil mags, and follow your lead...

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6. Someone at gunsnet told me he did something similar to his SAR3 and the standard feed ramp wasn't high enough. A secondary feed ramp maybe needed on the front of the adapter similar to the don't-mod-the-gun hicap conversion.

 

This gives me an idea! You could weld a little steel feedramp to the front of the adapter. If you only used AR mags, it would be all you need. Cheaper than buying a bullet guide and no need to risk drilling and taping the trunion. However the mods to the trunion do seem drastic for this adapter to fit...

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6. Someone at gunsnet told me he did something similar to his SAR3 and the standard feed ramp wasn't high enough. A secondary feed ramp maybe needed on the front of the adapter similar to the don't-mod-the-gun hicap conversion.

 

This gives me an idea! You could weld a little steel feedramp to the front of the adapter. If you only used AR mags, it would be all you need. Cheaper than buying a bullet guide and no need to risk drilling and taping the trunion. However the mods to the trunion do seem drastic for this adapter to fit...

 

 

Yep, it would be similar to the one for the 9mm conversion mag well:

post-1581-1180702211_thumb.jpg

 

I'll fiddle with it some this weekend.

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However the mods to the trunion do seem drastic for this adapter to fit...

"Drastic" is kind of a relative thing. Are we talking about a museum-quality-war-relic, or a collectible Belgian Browning... or are we talking about a ~$300 imported Saiga?

 

I guess it all depends on your budget. In my case, I'll go low-dollar - which doesn't mean the mod 'won't fly'...

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Well I made a make shift bullet guide for the regular spot and it will hand cycle everything except the 2nd to last round. Its a singapore M16 mag and the follower rocks forward and the bolt head gets stuck on top of the round. I think Dinzag's ramp will be just right as he even references the low front lip of the galil mags in the design. Since this adapter was made for a Galil, that is understandable.

 

I ordered a couple US made mags from AIM to see if they have better followers and I'll be interested to see how well Dinzag's guide will work in this.

 

Thanks

DYI

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Looks like you're a couple of weeks ahead of me. I just got my .223 (haven't even shot it yet) and am waiting for my ORF order.

 

Sometimes it's nice having someone beating the path ahead of you. Keep us posted as to how it turns out.

 

Does anyone think the mods to the trunion will affect reliability or structural integrety?

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Does anyone think the mods to the trunion will affect reliability or structural integrety?

 

 

No with the exception of possibly replacing the lower rivets with 10-32 botton head screws

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I took her out for a spin today. Fired 20 rounds (that's all I had) without problem except the 2nd to last round. These followers are pretty tipsy. Waiting for some US made mags to get here and Dinzag's bullet guide (which will be better than my 20 minute wanna go shooting creationg this morning).

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dyi - parts out tomorrow!

 

Thanks for sharing the info & cool pics.

Hope all works out well. :up:

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However the mods to the trunion do seem drastic for this adapter to fit...

"Drastic" is kind of a relative thing. Are we talking about a museum-quality-war-relic, or a collectible Belgian Browning... or are we talking about a ~$300 imported Saiga?

 

I guess it all depends on your budget. In my case, I'll go low-dollar - which doesn't mean the mod 'won't fly'...

 

When I say drastic, I don't mean that its defacing a valuable rifle, I mean it looks like you're removing a good bit of meat from that front trunion. I'm hesitant to do anything that might compromise the rifle structuraly.

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When I say drastic, I don't mean that its defacing a valuable rifle, I mean it looks like you're removing a good bit of meat from that front trunion. I'm hesitant to do anything that might compromise the rifle structuraly.

 

While I think the integrity could be somewhat compromised; I wouldn't think it would be a real issue. (Of course I am not a structural engineer) I would think though, that with it installed it would be at least near OEM strength (maybe even a tad stronger) in the same that laminated woods are....muliple layers dispersing the stress. Haven't seen it in person, but am seriously thinking about adding another .223 to the one I picked up from FBMG last week, to try this. What the heck...on a $250-$300 gun, would be nice to play with. I will be keeping one for a SHTF-fool-proof-old-reliable with regular mags though.

Edited by TOU

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Its all relative for strength to start with. I was concerned about cutting down the locking lugs til I looked at the 223 vs my S12 and other AKs (overkill to prevent hi cap mags). The side of the trunion don't really get cut down much, most of it is the rivet which is why it might be advisable to swap to a 10-32. Most of the trunion removed is radiusing the inside corners and that "meat" is really there to center the mag. If it were FA 762x39 I might be concerned but not on SA 223. For what its worth, I hacked up my brand new gun without hesitation. I'll certainly post if there is any issues with it. I'll run a bunch of rounds through it as soon as I can get some 223 thats not $8/20.

 

The mag adapter is pretty stout too.

Edited by dyi

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Look around for Wolf black box, I see it running for about $4-5 here per box, not much cheaper, but still cheaper than Remington.

 

Though I understand what you mean, I picked up two 15rnd boxes od 8mm Mauser for a little under $4 each.

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