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Interest call for handloaded exotic shotgun ammo


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I am tossing around the numbers and the time involved again, and thinking about actually offering some superior hand loads of high tolerances, for a decent price (I think anyway). When I say super velocity and high tolerance, I mean exactly that. I would weigh each charge twice by hand. I am well aware of max pressure and overloading past that point's consequences.

 

Im just curious what you guys think about it. I know the stuff is out there already, but Im talking about extreme tolerance loading by hand, not some mass produced stuff that varies, and I should be able to offer a good price, while still offering a better and more potent round.

 

Disclaimers would be sent with every order, of course, with full warnings for each type of round.

 

Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

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I am tossing around the numbers and the time involved again, and thinking about actually offering some superior hand loads of high tolerances, for a decent price (I think anyway). When I say super velocity and high tolerance, I mean exactly that. I would weigh each charge twice by hand. I am well aware of max pressure and overloading past that point's consequences.

 

Im just curious what you guys think about it. I know the stuff is out there already, but Im talking about extreme tolerance loading by hand, not some mass produced stuff that varies, and I should be able to offer a good price, which still offering a better and more potent round.

 

Disclaimers would be sent with every order, of course, with full warnings for each type of round.

 

Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

 

i've looked into some exotics... but "their" prices are steep

have you used flechetes before?

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yeh a long time ago i used to load flechettes. Im going to start working on a new load next week, at the LEAST for myself for large critter at home patrol.

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Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

 

 

You have my attention. Question, though -- which is more effective on large predators in the 280-220# class - flechettes or slugs? Also, in the larger gauges I would presume that more than one flechette would fit into the case. How many would fit in the much smaler .410 case? I know that price is an unknown quantity at this time and one which cannot be known until you start planning the reloading process, so I woun't ask...

 

Sounds like rib-cages-and-back-bones time!

Edited by Aethelbert
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I have tried some flechette rounds but they seemed very light on the load,felt like a light target load or less and did not seem to penetrate well. I would like to see a heavy load for flechettes, the loads I had have about 20? of the small darts about an inch long.

 

I would like to try a big hollow point slug or a steel tipped one for purely educational purposes- :angel:

 

What the hell- I did the poll and toss the $$ out there Bvamp....let us see ... :smoke:

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Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

 

 

You have my attention. Question, though -- which is more effective on large predators in the 280-220# class - flechettes or slugs? Also, in the larger gauges I would presume that more than one flechette would fit into the case. How many would fit in the much smaler .410 case? I know that price is an unknown quantity at this time and one which cannot be known until you start planning the reloading process, so I woun't ask...

 

Sounds like rib-cages-and-back-bones time!

 

20 flechetes per 12ga

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The reason people don't think of 10ga, 20ga, and 410 ga for exotic loads is because... well... nobody makes exotic loads for them.

 

In other words, I wouldn't pick the gauge first, I'd pick whichever combination was the best choice, and best usually means optimal, not the most extreme in one way or another.

 

You do know that loading and selling ammo requires an ammunition FFL, right? If you didn't want to go that route, selling components to private handloaders would be a possibility.

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I am aware of the FFL that Im going to need. Im not going to do this from NY. Im not going to be selling them next week, either. Soon, though, if there is a call for it. Im going to do EXTENSIVE testing and all that fun stuff, so that I dont blow anybody up. I am going to push the limits, and already did today.

 

I said screw it ,and I just tested some different flechette loads today. I have them holding a good pattern down modified choke, steel barrel (not testing with the saiga12, its in florida in family hands JUST IN CASE).

 

I have a flechette round worked up past 1300 fps, probably faster, with a loading of powder to counter the lessened weight of steel vs. lead. I am using more than 20 darts per 12 gauge shell, and there is not ONE scrape down the bore of the test gun. the last couple today blinded me from the muzzle flash when I fired them. I am penetrating 3/4" 7 ply plywood with them at 30 feet, straight-on hits passed through the wood and completely submerged into the tree the wood was leaned against, with sideways hits or off straight line flight hits impaling 1/2 way into the wood, or partially penetrating. no ricochetes. almost none are bending when they hit offaxis, good stuff all around so far. I cansee why these things are illegal to ship out of the country, and were brought to the geneva convention's table back when. Need to find out if I can hunt with these things. these would make GREAT turkey rounds in heavy cover. old tom T. and Jack D. Wabbit wont know what hit them.

 

I may also consider the route of offering to handloaders first, providing assembled payloads with charge data to buyers, and see what some of you think of them. I am also aware of which states and areas prohibit these rounds, my particular area is not one of them. I wont be offering this round in any form or assembly state to those areas.

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Aethelbert: For large game and predators, it is more of a maiming round in the amount of projectiles that we are talking about down a shotgun barrel. out of a howitzer that story would change, id think, from what Im seeing from my results so far. I would ALWAYS use a slug on any large predator if I could. I will have to check some spent 410 hulls and see how many fit in there with the method of payloading that I am going with.

 

ThousandSon: if you want a good hollow point slug, you need a rifled barrel and can try the pretty pricey 12 gauge remington super copper sabot hollow point slugs. we took a few deer with them this year, and they are devastating in effect. shoot a 5 gallon bucket filled with water with one.

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If you want a round that will 'clear the way' in 'social group' try a dragons breath- nothing like a temp magnesium flamethrower.- I tried them before,looks like a huge muzzleflash but I think if you are looking at it from the side it is more impressive.

 

I also had some 'bolo rounds' 2 slugs with wire between.

Some 'bouncer rounds' 2 zytel balls supposedly LTL and good to 45 yds.

Some flare rounds for distress signal

And one of my favorites for 7/4- a bird bomb like round that seems to use a light powder charge and a M80 as the payload-no real recoil and makes a nice little 'pop' about like??? 200'-300'--???

 

I tell you a wole new world opened up when i got my first shotgun.. :lolol::super:

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Ive used all the above rounds, and then quite a few more types, some you can get, others that you cannot get. I had written a short explanation up a long time ago about some experiences Ive had with each round.

 

I used to load a large payload magnesium round that is nothing like the stuff you can get off the shelf. there really isnt a use for it, if you ask me. They did not look like what you guys have described the commercial dragon's breath rounds as, they were more like a large firework going off, if that helps picture what I mean by "nothing like".

 

 

FYI - the way that I am loading my "super" flechette loads right now, I can almost positively state that they WILL cycle in a saiga 12 without a hitch. I will have to include a shot card on top of the loadings, just to be sure that the payloads dont shift under repeated recoil. they have the same recoil as 3" 15 pellet buckshot loads. aint no turkey or anything hiding from these. and like i said, they arent no cheap 20 dart loads, either. I may do some testing on extra full chokes, and special shot cups and whatnot for hunters. I need to inquire a few things from the ATF before I file my FFL once I am relocated, to clear up a few legal issues I am not finding answers to.

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mc, it should be able to. go get a box of 100 209 primers and try some paper wads and all that fun stuff down some spent hulls. without a wadding, you will run into problems with a load like that.

 

when I was a kid, before paintball guns and airsoft, when we got bored of the bb gun fights, we used to dress up in triple winter layers, and shoot each other with 22 shorts and all that low velocity ammo, including 12 gauge shells loaded with a 209 primer, a TINY amount of powder (akin to what is in a 22lr shell), and a wax slug. those suckers HURT at close range, i tell you.

 

word to the wise: do NOT fuck around with something that you are not fully aware of the capabilities of. Ive done some pretty stupid shit in my days, and Ive been lucky. sometimes practical knowledge beats out the book smarts.

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For Fuks Sake Bvamp!--

 

'when I was a kid, before paintball guns and airsoft, when we got bored of the bb gun fights, we used to dress up in triple winter layers, and shoot each other with 22 shorts and all that low velocity ammo, including 12 gauge shells loaded with a 209 primer, a TINY amount of powder (akin to what is in a 22lr shell), and a wax slug. those suckers HURT at close range, i tell you.

 

word to the wise: do NOT fuck around with something that you are not fully aware of the capabilities of. Ive done some pretty stupid shit in my days, and Ive been lucky. sometimes practical knowledge beats out the book smarts'

 

I thought I was screwy for having large bottle rocket wars where we used metal trash can lids as our only protection! YOU sir ,have me beat!-- :ded::wacko::wacko::eek::eek:

 

Definitely interested in the Flechette rounds now... :devil::devil::devil:

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we used to do that stupid shit too. after I had a bottle rocket go off two inches from my ear, we switched up to roman candles....that is, until one of us got burned REAL good one afternoon....then we just went back to shooting each other. LOL.

 

the stupid things kids do, I tell ya. Im lucky I made it through my childhood in one piece....

 

HOWEVER it has given me knowledge that I could not buy or learn any other way....

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I am tossing around the numbers and the time involved again, and thinking about actually offering some superior hand loads of high tolerances, for a decent price (I think anyway). When I say super velocity and high tolerance, I mean exactly that. I would weigh each charge twice by hand. I am well aware of max pressure and overloading past that point's consequences.

 

Im just curious what you guys think about it. I know the stuff is out there already, but Im talking about extreme tolerance loading by hand, not some mass produced stuff that varies, and I should be able to offer a good price, while still offering a better and more potent round.

 

Disclaimers would be sent with every order, of course, with full warnings for each type of round.

 

Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

 

what about payload slugs... mercury filled?

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I am tossing around the numbers and the time involved again, and thinking about actually offering some superior hand loads of high tolerances, for a decent price (I think anyway). When I say super velocity and high tolerance, I mean exactly that. I would weigh each charge twice by hand. I am well aware of max pressure and overloading past that point's consequences.

 

Im just curious what you guys think about it. I know the stuff is out there already, but Im talking about extreme tolerance loading by hand, not some mass produced stuff that varies, and I should be able to offer a good price, while still offering a better and more potent round.

 

Disclaimers would be sent with every order, of course, with full warnings for each type of round.

 

Any input? What do you shotgunners think?

 

what about payload slugs... mercury filled?

 

Your testiculars will fall off...

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already considering brass hulls for the "high end pricey" stuff.

 

I will not be offereing AP slugs at first. the FFL is 1000$ for AP ammunition. this will have to wait.

 

HOWEVER I am still looking at producing a fine set of shells for the hardcore shotgunners out there.....

 

I am seeing the turkey/waterfoulers responses....I plan to develop those loadings next, before I apply for an FFL.

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already considering brass hulls for the "high end pricey" stuff.

 

I will not be offereing AP slugs at first. the FFL is 1000$ for AP ammunition. this will have to wait.

 

HOWEVER I am still looking at producing a fine set of shells for the hardcore shotgunners out there.....

 

I am seeing the turkey/waterfoulers responses....I plan to develop those loadings next, before I apply for an FFL.

 

Brass shells for top of magazine loads.

 

#4 buck (40 pellet or more) for home defense - lol max carnage- optimum penetration at close range

 

00 buck (15 pellet) for outside

 

1 ounce soft lead foster slugs loaded backwards - insane expansion - exit hole might be 6 inches

sick stuff

 

experimental - two lead balls 400 grain each with a heavyduty steel thread about 10 inches long anchored between them. Decapitator load

Edited by dog
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already considering brass hulls for the "high end pricey" stuff.

 

I will not be offereing AP slugs at first. the FFL is 1000$ for AP ammunition. this will have to wait.

 

HOWEVER I am still looking at producing a fine set of shells for the hardcore shotgunners out there.....

 

I am seeing the turkey/waterfoulers responses....I plan to develop those loadings next, before I apply for an FFL.

 

Brass shells for top of magazine loads.

 

#4 buck (40 pellet or more) for home defense - lol max carnage- optimum penetration at close range

 

00 buck (15 pellet) for outside

 

1 ounce soft lead foster slugs loaded backwards - insane expansion - exit hole might be 6 inches

sick stuff

 

experimental - two lead balls 400 grain each with a heavyduty steel thread about 10 inches long anchored between them. Decapitator load

 

"bolo" rounds...

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Well how about some hollow point slugs with some cyanide,strichnine, or arsenic in the hole-you know,to minimize 'suffering' :devil::angel::rolleyes:

 

The mercury stuff is evil also,problem is getting it and toxicity......

 

But these kinds of rounds are for 'emergency use only' and not for hunting.:rolleyes:

 

OOH- how about some slugs with like an impact detonator-cap with a pin and a primer over a powder charge---instant ground round or great for the Zombie or totally drugged up assailant.....

 

Just thinking......

 

I still like flechettes for some reason and would like some.

 

Hey bvamp-honest question-how were those Barnaul steel cased shotgun shells and loads that were sold a while back? I wanted to get some to store away because they do not go brittle like the plastic cases-biggest prob with shotgun ammo storage- but never got any,stores and SG always out.

 

Opinions from you and others please.

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point detonating rounds arent exactly legal anywhere. I probably wouldnt even make them in "loadable" fashion, like what I have seen availible out there.

 

mercury isnt a problem. I have about a gallon of it the school was throwing out that I snagged years back.

 

I dont know about the barnaul steel cased rounds, myself, never tried them.

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Bvamp- I was (mostly)joking about the point detonating rounds, I know they are not legal.....ditto for the cyanide,mercury,etc...I would definitely not consider using things like that unless it was a clear SHTF situation......and I would never ask anyone to commercially produce or sell such things....

 

Just thought I would expand on the title of the thread-a little levity.. :angel::angel::rolleyes:

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thanks for making that clear. I had thought that is how you saw it, but thought I would address it anyway.

 

as for the flechette loads, I shot at a board behind a fairly dense bush this afternoon with one of my final loadings, and I am positive that these would actually be a viable turkey round, although it is very poor huntsmanship to shoot at that which you cannot see.....unfortunately for Tom D Turkey, I am onto his plans, and he wont hide behind the damn bush anymore from me, at least.

 

I have also determined that these loadings for WATERFOULERS at least is NOT a good thing AT ALL. these suckers fly a LOT farther than shot, even though they are lighter because the darts are made from hardened steel, and they fly point-first. NOT the type of surprise you want to give your fellow hunter across the lake sitting in his blind.

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