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AegisDei

Gun Laws Question

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I want to get a second, knowledged opinion to be sure I'm not wrong in my interpretation of 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3),(5), 922(B)(3), and 27 CFR 478.29.

 

I'm a NC resident, working in WV, and I go to school in KY. Can I buy a long-gun in the state of WV?

 

Pursuant to the exceptions listed in 18 USC 922(a)(3) and 27 CFR 478.29 for the sale of long guns and shot guns to non-residents, can't I? As long as I purchase from an FFL, face-to-face, and it conforms to all three state's laws and regulations? (the gun i'm purchasing is legal to buy in NC, KY, and WV)

 

I've fought with every gun-store operator within 25miles, and finally traced the problem to the local atf representative. He's telling everyone that they can't sell guns to non-residents unless they go to school in WV or have a WV state identification. can a non-resident purchase a long-gun?

 

last note--there is no WV law or regulation prohibiting the sale of firearms to non-residents, so it is based entirely on federal law.

 

thanks for any help you can offer!

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what do both the NC and WV laws say on purchasing from CONTIGUOUS states?look there.

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what do both the NC and WV laws say on purchasing from CONTIGUOUS states?look there.

Both allow it. Thanks!

 

I spoke with both state's ATF agents and got both to admit that it was legal. So now I have to convince my FFL to call the same agents with whom I spoke. But now I'm one step closer.

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Good question Aegis. I have a similar question for someone else. Maybe you, being in law school, can help me on this in your search for an answer to your question.

There is another member here who is about to make his first gun purchase. He lives in VA. He wants to buy one of my S-12s. He has no felonies on his record and he's in his mid twenties. He is coming thru NC next week on a vacation trip with family and we talked about a FTF transaction here at my house. The gun is a brand new IZ-109 that was sold to me thru an FFL straight from the distributor and I have all paperwork on it.

 

the problem...

 

He talked to his freind up there who is a gunsmith and now he has cold feet. The guy told him he can not legally purchase the gun FTF in another state and it would HAVE to be shipped to VA and transferred to him thru an FFL (presumably himself?)

Told him something about the brady law and that if he were to ever get stopped with it by a game warden or other official and the gun was ran it would not be tracable to him and would get him or me in trouble. WTF?

Is this bullshit or is that for real?

I thought a signed bill of sale was all that is necessary along with some kind of confirmation that he is legally able to obtain a firearm.

 

Any of you other Va residents care to chime in on this please? Is there anything wrong with FTF purchases or transportation across state lines? I'm asking because I certainly do not want either of us to break any laws and I want him to be confident in his new purchase if we can make this happen.

 

Yes I know I could just ship it to his FFL and he could get his nics check and all would be peachy, but I'm trying to find a way to save us both time and him the extra costs of shipping and FFL fees.

 

He trusts his gunsmith buddy more than me and I understand that. He also has a state trooper friend he wants to ask his opinion on the matter. What he does not understand is the fact that gunsmiths and police officers have their jobs they know how to do but all are not necessarily totally informed on gun laws. With the huge membership of FFL dealers, lawyers, and other Va residents we have here, who have no doubt been thru this same scenereo before, I thought it would be a good question to put out their to all of you.

 

Aegis I hope we can both get some answers here. Hopefully we can also put this guys mind to rest so that he can become one of the people lucky enough to own one of these fine weapons.

 

thanks

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just go into the state penal codes, search for firearms purchases and the word CONTIGUOUS (which is the legal wording of adjacent). print both firearms laws out, highlight BOTH areas where it says that you may, and bring that with you, to force the dealer to make a call.

 

your key word for searching is CONTIGUOUS.not adjacent.

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Aegis I hope we can both get some answers here. Hopefully we can also put this guys mind to rest so that he can become one of the people lucky enough to own one of these fine weapons.

 

thanks

When do you need to know by? I'll check on yours. I got hold of the ATF today and they said that I was right on my last query. :super: I can't guarantee I'll be right about yours, but I'll look into it and give you my non-legal advice (I can't give any form of legal advice until I am licensed).

 

But I *think* that you can NOT do a FTF transfer to a non-resident unless you're an FFL. But if you can, it'd have to conform with both states' laws, it could only be for a long gun, and I think you'd need to the atf background-check form filled out.

 

As I say, I'll double check and let you know this weekend if that's not too late. Also, you can call the NC ATF at 704-716-1830 and check with them. You'll also need to check with VA atf, so ask the NC agent for a VA satellite office's number. Goodluck!

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Thanks buddy :super:

Crap...took me so long to respond, I'm sorry. I had no idea what busy was until this past year and summer. Ugh.

 

Anyway, as mentioned, I can't give legal advice, but after reading the statutes and regulations, my analysis is that it is NOT legal for a non-licensed individual to sell a gun to a non-resident citizen, or to a citizen that the seller had reason to believe was a non-resident. I have reached this conclusion based on the following:

 

18 USC 922:

(a) It shall be unlawful--

(1) for any person--

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce;

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the State in which the transferor resides;

 

27 CFR 478.30:

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in the State in which the transferor resides.

 

The statutes and regulations contain numerous exceptions, but the exceptions have been edited because they are inapplicable. I previously listed the phone numbers of the ATF agency in NC, so they may be able to give you more advice than I can, or you may wish to speak with a licensed lawyer who is familiar with 18 USC 922. Goodluck in your decision! Sorry I can't be of more help and that I am the bearer of bad news.

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Get youself a copy of JPFO's DVD titled "The Gang" to see BATFE abuses. I've read about their abuses since I joined the NRA 29 years ago. I also read Soldier of Fortune's article calling the BATF "America's Gestapo" for their jackbooted treatment of citizens. We need to mobilize to abolish this agency since gun owners number 100 million while the BATFE has 2,300 agents.

 

This is another BATFE abuse to tell FFLs they're breaking the law on a legal transaction. Just imagine if Hitlery Clinton gets to the White House (G-d forbid), her leading the BATFE will make abuses like the Waco atrocity small in comparison.

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