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.308 receiver strength


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Having been the very pleased owner of a Saiga .223 in the past, I am on a path to obtain a Saiga .308, with visions of conversions, hi-cap mags, decent optics, and possibly muzzle brake or flash hider. Before going too gung ho on the .308 version, I must admit to some lingering worries. The Romanian PSL in 7.62x54 is built on an RPK receiver and has reinforcement plates and cross-bolts in the receiver at the butt stock end. If the Romanians felt it necessary to beef up their PSLs that much, how can the Saiga hold up very long to a similar pounding from the 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester cartridge? I imagine this has come up before, however I didn't find a definitive post about it.

 

then, once you have convinced me all will be well with the .308 (I hope) , what is the best path for a good solid and effective muzzle brake? What are the steps, who has them, what is the smart choice for threading, etc. ?

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Having been the very pleased owner of a Saiga .223 in the past, I am on a path to obtain a Saiga .308, with visions of conversions, hi-cap mags, decent optics, and possibly muzzle brake or flash hider. Before going too gung ho on the .308 version, I must admit to some lingering worries. The Romanian PSL in 7.62x54 is built on an RPK receiver and has reinforcement plates and cross-bolts in the receiver at the butt stock end. If the Romanians felt it necessary to beef up their PSLs that much, how can the Saiga hold up very long to a similar pounding from the 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester cartridge? I imagine this has come up before, however I didn't find a definitive post about it.

 

then, once you have convinced me all will be well with the .308 (I hope) , what is the best path for a good solid and effective muzzle brake? What are the steps, who has them, what is the smart choice for threading, etc. ?

 

Get the AK Concepts .308 brake. It is in 5/8-24. Best brake I've ever used or seen. It straight works.

EDIT: I gues they changed their name to Primary Weapons Systems (PWS). See it here: http://primaryweapons.com/default.asp

Edited by czgunner
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Hey CZGUNNER,

 

I expect the CZ part of your handle is to do with CZ weapons, no? If so, I too am a big fan and have a few nice pieces. Anyway...I have just recently picked up a Saiga...or four, :rolleyes: and am getting close to converting them. Gathering parts at the moment but would love to maybe see a few in person first if possible. I noticed you too are in SW WA, I too am in the Vancouver area. If you wouldn't mind, maybe sometime we could get together. That goes for anyone else in the Portland, Oregon or surrounding area.

 

Cheers,

 

TOU

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Hey CZGUNNER,

 

I expect the CZ part of your handle is to do with CZ weapons, no? If so, I too am a big fan and have a few nice pieces. Anyway...I have just recently picked up a Saiga...or four, :rolleyes: and am getting close to converting them. Gathering parts at the moment but would love to maybe see a few in person first if possible. I noticed you too are in SW WA, I too am in the Vancouver area. If you wouldn't mind, maybe sometime we could get together. That goes for anyone else in the Portland, Oregon or surrounding area.

 

Cheers,

 

TOU

 

TOU,

Lets link up sometime. I'm on the east side off 164th.

You can email me if you'd like.

The CZ is actually my initials!

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Hey CZGUNNER,

 

I expect the CZ part of your handle is to do with CZ weapons, no? If so, I too am a big fan and have a few nice pieces. Anyway...I have just recently picked up a Saiga...or four, :rolleyes: and am getting close to converting them. Gathering parts at the moment but would love to maybe see a few in person first if possible. I noticed you too are in SW WA, I too am in the Vancouver area. If you wouldn't mind, maybe sometime we could get together. That goes for anyone else in the Portland, Oregon or surrounding area.

 

Cheers,

 

TOU

 

TOU,

Lets link up sometime. I'm on the east side off 164th.

You can email me if you'd like.

 

The CZ is actually my initials!

 

Will do, I actually used to live in the Pheasant Run area off of 164th and 39th until 3 years ago. Now I live near the NorthWest part of the County near the river.

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I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "reinforcement plates" on the PSL. I double-checked, and the PSL has some plates on the insides of the magwell, but I'm about 99% certain their purpose is for holding the mag in tight. Can you be more specific?

 

I don't see any extra cross-bolts on the back of the reciever, just the standard 2 long rivets holding the trunnion on. The rear of the reciever has a riveted plate on the outside, but I always thought the purpose of it was to move the buttstock mounting screws further rearward so that I can't put cool furniture on it. :chris: In reality, I think the purpose is to move the trunnion further rearward to accomodate a longer gas piston stroke. I would think any "strengthening" these plates do would be minimal considering how durable the trunion and rivets are. The bolt on the PSL doesn't hit the rear trunion much harder than an AK in reality.

 

Also, I didn't mic it, but the sheet metal reciever is about the same thickness as the S-308's. I'm almost certain this is not an RPK reciever, are you thinking of a Vepr? Or maybe looking at a Vepr dressed up to look like a PSL?

 

Note - this is a SSG-97 manufactured by Romarm/cugir, not for military issue. Are you looking at a PSL build that used a RPK reciever?

 

I'm not trying to flame you at all, just not sure what you're referring to.

 

And on a side note, there are a whole lot of people who have put a whole lot of rounds through these over the years on this forum, I've never heard of a safety or reliability issue. I'd say go for it man!! :super:

 

If I'm wrong on any of this, flame on.

 

edit - googled it and found what you're talking about, I guess they are RPK recievers by definition, but I still say, mine still feels like thin-ass sheet metal like any AKM. The "reinforcement flanges" as some site called them on the front of the reciever are not any thicker material, they're just flanged out to accomodate the wider front trunnion required to fit that wide-ass 7.62x54r. What does a SSG-97 in .308 look like? Again, I'm not an engineer, but i don't think the features you speak of would make that big of difference in the way of reliability, I think they're just there to enlarge the whole system. And I still can't find the cross-bolts that you're talking about.

Edited by shaneman153a
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Hey CZGUNNER,

 

I expect the CZ part of your handle is to do with CZ weapons, no? If so, I too am a big fan and have a few nice pieces. Anyway...I have just recently picked up a Saiga...or four, :rolleyes: and am getting close to converting them. Gathering parts at the moment but would love to maybe see a few in person first if possible. I noticed you too are in SW WA, I too am in the Vancouver area. If you wouldn't mind, maybe sometime we could get together. That goes for anyone else in the Portland, Oregon or surrounding area.

 

Cheers,

 

TOU

 

I'll be in Tacoma beginning of July, but I'm on a tight schedule with the in-laws. (Dammit!) I'll have to look you up when I'm home for good. It's sad that this hobby costs less and is less supervised in WA then "Bush Country". God I miss public land..........

Edited by shaneman153a
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Thanks for the responses on the muzzle brake option, looks like a good way to go if I can figure out the best way to get the barrel threaded.

 

As to the receiver on the PSL, yes, it is an RPK style, and has reinforcement plates at the butt. With a rivet or cross bolt through both the receiver and the reinforcement plates, the recoil energy would be transmitted into two sections of metal on each side, rather than only the one piece of metal in a regular AK receiver that is not reinforced in this manner. If the connection between the plate and receiver is good, this would roughly half the recoil stress experienced by these components at the butt end of the receiver from what it would experience without the plate.

 

I am taking some guesses, however it could be that with as many as 10,000 rounds or more fired, the unreinforced receiver may begin to show signs of impending stress fracture. On a military weapon this type of service life is often needed, or more. It may be that Saiga was given a design life of 5,000 rounds, since it is supposed to be a hunting rifle, and thus the difference. Yes, I am a licensed engineer, but not a mechanical engineer, and I don't have enough information about the grades of the steels used or weapon testing to come to any valid engineering conclusions, I can only make some observations and wonder if someone knows a lot more about this than I do.

 

I plan to go ahead with the Saiga .308, the cost is reasonable, and see how I like it. Chances are, with the cost of ammo, it would see at most 2,000 rounds in my remaining life time.

 

If anyone else has more to offer on this subject, I would sure like to hear about it, and I am glad you guys are finding places to hook up and talk about the area you live, however it seems like an un-necessary distraction from the topic I started.

 

thanks again for the responses

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Yes, I am a licensed engineer, but not a mechanical engineer, and I don't have enough information about the grades of the steels used or weapon testing to come to any valid engineering conclusions, I can only make some observations and wonder if someone knows a lot more about this than I do.

 

Oh man, we got an introvert here..... :haha:

 

Just kidding, thanks for making me do that research, learning experience. I still just can't see how those plates could do much in the way of their intended purpose. (later found they are referred to as "stiffening plates".......dead ringer) Especially considering how low the recoil is on a PSL. (Felt recoil, with spring loaded plate)

 

I'll tell you that looking at the two rifles side by side, the Saiga "appears" to be higher quality and more durable. (Much heavier barrel anyway) Hope you come to the dark side brotha, keep us posted.

 

ps - .064 on the kit receivers for PSL, .040 on the AKM. Don't know what the S-308 is rockin'

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