grimus 0 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 well got to test fire the Wraithmaker drum! i went on the trip down south and meet up with the guys from Alliance Machine. the drum is extremely built well and cycles nice. man we shot alot of rounds that day! Alliance Machine was real nice to let me shoot all them rounds up $$$$ i got to take my drum home saturday and i put about 400 rounds back in the drum and shot it at home to show everybody. i'm going to put away my street sweeper now and play with the Wraithmaker more. my street sweeper was beat bad by the Wraithmaker drum at the gun range. the saiga is alot faster! there was a video of the contest shoot. i hope they make some other drums for the 410 & 20ga. i thank Alliance Machine for the test fire! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 did they say if they had shipped out orders yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Mike@Alliance told me about 5-7 days before he would get the out of spec parts back from the annodizer last week. I think I might have been on the phone with him when the UPS guy picked them up, actually. it sounds like he is on time, more or less with that statement. I am moving this new topic into Mike's Business section, and leaving the identical post in his other topic there. He can figure out if he wants to just leave it as is or edit it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badman400 3 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 did they say if they had shipped out orders yet? Mike called me this morning and told me that my drum was packaged and waiting to be picked up by the UPS man! Should have it in a couple of days. I respect a man that will take the time to call and keep me updated. Now I can't wait to get one of Mike D's to go with it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Excellent, I talked with them late last week, looked like they'd have them shipping on Friday at that time, but stuff always happens. Didn't miss it at my last match, there were two of the 3 stages with shotgun work, both were limited to 5 shotgun rounds But during my next sidematch, I'll have a stage with a 30 ish round count (I always do, not just for the drum). If it's not here and I haven't tested it out on my gun, I'm going to be sore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
surfmaster 5 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 For USPSA matches, you are only allowed 10 in the drum and one in the chamber for a total of 11 rounds in the gun in open division. Since the Saiga 12 is a magazine/detachable box fed shotgun, you are automatically in open class. You are not legally allowed to load more than 10 rounds in the drum or magazine. (For limited class, you can have 9 in the magazine and one in the chamber.) Those are USPSA rules. I'm not sure whether the same rules apply to the Iron Man Match, though. You need tons of rounds for that match and drums would sure come in handy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
surfmaster 5 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi tnek, Whether you are starting or in the middle of a stage, the most you can have in your magazine is 10 plus the 1 round in the chamber for a total of 11 rounds at any time for open class. It would be nice if the rule went out the window after the buzzer sounded and the first round was fired. If this was the case, I would fire one round, drop the magazine and insert the drum. However, it doesn't work this way. It's 10 in the magazine/drum and one in the chamber for open class--and no more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mongoose 0 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) I found this on line. I dont know who this is test firing. Edited July 3, 2007 by Mongoose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
surfmaster 5 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 (edited) Hi tnek, No problem and I wasn't trying to be harsh. It's always great to ask questions. Here's a link to the rules, www.uspsa.org/rules/2004ShotgunRulesFinal.pdf. Please go the the page marked "81" in the upper right hand corner (not the page sequence in the PDF). Edited July 3, 2007 by surfmaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat 0 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 (edited) Edited July 4, 2007 by Wombat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
surfmaster 5 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 For further proof that in USPSA three-gun competition that an open shotgun can have a maximum capacity of 11 rounds, click the link, www.uspsa.org/document_library/2005_Front_Sight_Annual.pdf. Next go to the page marked "Page 16" in the upper right hand corner (not the PDF sequence in the application window), find the headline "New 3-Gun Aggregates," and read the first paragraph with the subhead titled, "Open." It clearly states you are limited to a maximum of 11 rounds at any time in your gun. This usually means 10 in the magazine and one in the chamber. Outside of USPSA competition, you can load more than 11 shells if it is legal in your state to own a high-capacity drum magazine for your shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 For further proof that in USPSA three-gun competition that an open shotgun can have a maximum capacity of 11 rounds, click the link, www.uspsa.org/document_library/2005_Front_Sight_Annual.pdf. Next go to the page marked "Page 16" in the upper right hand corner (not the PDF sequence in the application window), find the headline "New 3-Gun Aggregates," and read the first paragraph with the subhead titled, "Open." It clearly states you are limited to a maximum of 11 rounds at any time in your gun. This usually means 10 in the magazine and one in the chamber. Outside of USPSA competition, you can load more than 11 shells if it is legal in your state to own a high-capacity drum magazine for your shotgun. That really sucks. I was really hoping to give the saiga guy's a big edge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've been shooting USPSA 3-Gun for years (as a point of fact, I helped write the last Multigun revisions; look for one labeled "The Wakal Rule" ). And I've been shooting a 10-round stick mag/20 round drum (capable) shotgun in active competition since 2001. I have a little experience in the field And no, there are no hairs to split nor arguements to be made. You may have no more than 11 rounds in your Open shotgun...ever...under USPSA rules. If you load 20...or 12..., you will be disqualified. Now, if you are shooting a NON-USPSA match, then your milage may vary. I have had great fun at "outlaw" (non-USPSA) matches shooting my drums However...USPSA, 10+1 only. You can use the drum in USPSA, but you can't fill it up. I find it amusing that about the time I started with the drum-fed gun, they changed the rules to 10+1. Prior to 2001, you could do what you wanted in Open (sigh). There were guys with "golf bags" full of magazine tubes that they would change per stage, so they could run a short (!) 10-round tube for most everything or break out the 17-round "super extended" tube for the long stages. I picked up my shotgun back then because I didn't feel like learning to run a speed loader Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badman400 3 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Received my drum from WM today, along with a follow-up call from Mike Jr. Drum locks up tight and stable. Very high quality, strong construction! Haven't gotten to shoot it yet, but loaded, unloaded the drum, and locked up in the S12. All's well so far. Will post after range trip. Thanks to Mike Sr. and Jr. for making a quality product and for taking the time to stay in touch. I believe I have a product that will last. Edited July 6, 2007 by badman400 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hmm, I'm not sure what I have in mine, and I don't shoot the uspsa matches as they don't exist here. I know I paid 200 for my Saiga (CDNN special baby), I have numerous factory 8's but didn't pay the crazy prices that some did, I do have a slew of 10 round mags, but will likely end up with 6 or 8, Saiga factory front site post, and mine is converted (don't know if the big dogs will do that, as I'm not sure it is necessary speed) by the WESCOG gunsmith company .... But the point is you can tie up well north of 2 grand in a competition shotgun, (I'm sure you know that Open gunners routinely put more than that into a pistol), and this is the reason they strive for "stability" and would likely change rules, create a division or create drum unfriendly stages .... and it's hard to argue with that if you imagine it happening to us ... instead of by us ..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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