MikeD 541 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Everything is set up to start excepting orders for our first run production. Start time is 08-15 at 7:00PM Eastern Time at www.mdarms.com. Please take this time to register your account with us and read all the information on the site. First run orders will require a 50% deposit. I had the restriction on hotmail and gmail addresses removed. Post # 430 from the information thread. Please continue to post question there instead. That thread is so long I didn't want people to miss this big update. Link to main thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=16417 Upgrade: I added extra material to the drum just so it will be extra strong. View the pics below to compare the reenforcments to one of the fired prototype drums. The drum on the right is the one from videos 1 and 2. It is probably overkill, but that's the way we like it. Time-line: I should have some test units in my hands off the mold in about 8 to 10 weeks. If the molds don't need tweaked I should be shipping the first run about 2 weeks after that. Material: They will be made out of a glass filled polyphthalamide. It isn't nylon but is in the nylon family. It out-performs nylon in all the right places. It is a high performance material. It is stronger, tougher, and more durable than nylon. It makes for a much more consistent product. It can handle think to thin transitions without the shrink of nylon. It is virtually nonabsorbent to moisture unlike nylon. It stays very strong at very high and very low temps. It is commonly used to replace metal parts. All around better and stronger. It is 50% to 100% better than nylon in the crucial areas. The drum will have stainless steel inserts, one in the post that the gear and the cover clips to and one in the front mag catch like the factory mags. Ordering: I will be taking orders as soon as the site is up. My guy is working hard on it to get it done for me. He said he should have it up no later than 2 weeks ( said this 2 days ago), but would try to get it done earlier. I'll just be happy if he meets the 2 week deadline. I will let everyone know a few days in advance of opening the site and give a specific time and date. I will be accepting Visa, MasterCard, Discover, money orders and certified checks. I will require a 50% deposit for first run orders. And charge the remaining balance right before shipping. After the first run I will not charge a deposit and just charge the full amount right before shipping. Shipping: I haven't decided yet on shipping options. I might just go with one carrier option like AGP. Don't know yet, just starting to look into it. Price: I originally was not going to give a discount on the drums until I had covered the project expense with sales. Or give dealer pricing either. But if I did this then I wouldn't be able to give a discount to all the people that have watched , supported , and patiently waited ( because know doubt most of you will be the first to order). So here is what I came up with. Instead of charging more first and the price dropping later from dealer over stocking, I figured I will charge less to start ( basically dealer pricing to all even if you only order one) and after the first run raise the price of the drum. This way the people that buy first won't find the value of their drum has dropped in a month or two, but has gone up. I am going to list 1000 drums to start. But if they are spoken for before production starts I will add to the number produced in the first run and make more available. If there is enough time to increase my production order before they start. Hopefully doing this will help get more drums to more people without having to wait like with the 10rders. Also, hopefully it will cut down on marked up reselling and people will be less likely to order more than they want for personal use. I don't know yet if I am going to limit the number ordered or offer large number to dealers in the first run. I guess I will have to see how sells are going and what exactly dealers want. So here is what you've been waiting for, a solid price. The first run will be $165.00 each plus shipping. After the first run I'm going to raise the price to $200.00 each plus shipping and start offering quantity discount.Let it be written! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 sweet pics! ironic about you post # being 666 and posting your first pics of production run. "Something wicked this way comes!" perhaps??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 sweet pics! ironic about you post # being 666 and posting your first pics of production run. "Something wicked this way comes!" perhaps??? It isn't a production run. It is just a cheap prototype. It would crumble if I tried to fire this one. I add extra material for added strength and wanted to make sure the cover matched up right. Could have left the cover the same but wanted it to come up and meet the extra material for just a better appearance. Also it was a good excuse to see it in-person and off the computer screen! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Changed lay out of thread and I'm bumping it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. wipple 0 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Wow . When you are ready to take orders just let me know where and when to send the money. This would be a very cool piece to add to my collection. I am hanging on your every word on this subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaak 0 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 wow, you are about to see all your hard work pay off. i would definately like two. just please send me a pm when you are taking orders and let me know how to do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hunter121 2 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Im in for 1 or 2, waiting patiently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acidnova 9 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 i cant wait. i know ill have to buy me, my father,and my grandfather one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris410 0 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 I cant wait to get one, they look great, kind of a cross between the USAS and Ak drums, sweet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 These are going to out sell the wraithmaker. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 i cant wait. i know ill have to buy me, my father,and my grandfather one. That's great. The other day my grandpa said "We'll all have to get us one of those shotguns." (meaning the family) I laughed and said. "You all should have already had one!" He just turned 87 in April and is still just a gettin it. Hope he's here forever! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynnkcircle 0 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'm in for one. Please let me know when I can give you my credit card number for the initial deposit. I wish I could afford more. I have to wonder how a drum with 20 rounds will affect handling. That leads to my sling question in another area of the forum. Lynn K. Circle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'm in for one. Please let me know when I can give you my credit card number for the initial deposit. I wish I could afford more. I have to wonder how a drum with 20 rounds will affect handling. That leads to my sling question in another area of the forum. Lynn K. Circle I'll personally let you know in advance of the site opening. I have found that the drums aren't as cumbersome or as heavy as one might think. It still shoulders comfortably. I do think a foregrip makes it more comfortable to me. It will all depend on peoples body structure I guess and how they handle there shotgun. As far as weight. It will probably be lighter than 2 10rd sticks strapped together and also you won't have to change mags after 10 shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Im in for 1 or 2, waiting patiently. Like wise.My 8" Shorty needs one of these. I have a few friends who don't post here who will buy at least 1 each. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I'm in for one. Please let me know when I can give you my credit card number for the initial deposit. I wish I could afford more. I have to wonder how a drum with 20 rounds will affect handling. That leads to my sling question in another area of the forum. Lynn K. Circle I'll personally let you know in advance of the site opening. I have found that the drums aren't as cumbersome or as heavy as one might think. It still shoulders comfortably. I do think a foregrip makes it more comfortable to me. It will all depend on peoples body structure I guess and how they handle there shotgun. As far as weight. It will probably be lighter than 2 10rd sticks strapped together and also you won't have to change mags after 10 shots. Who cares about cumbersome or heavy. That thing looks bad ass!!! If it works as good as it looks I definitely want one or two. JUST BRING IT!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
748 0 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Tax free pay + hazard fire pay + hard duty pay = at least 2 drums Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Andy2 5 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Damn guys, you're all talking about two... Looks like plenty of us will be lucky to get one. I kept missing out on AGP 10 rounders because of people hoarding. So if I miss out on the first few runs of the drums, I'll damn well hold out for a belt-fed mod!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Damn guys, you're all talking about two... Looks like plenty of us will be lucky to get one. I kept missing out on AGP 10 rounders because of people hoarding. So if I miss out on the first few runs of the drums, I'll damn well hold out for a belt-fed mod!!! Quit yer bitchin.These have not even been made yet.The site is not up.Mike is not taking orders.When he does,lay your money down like the rest of us and get in line. Or would you rather have some kind of liberal,affirmative action,politically correct social program that allows you be the first on your block to have the killer new toy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LRRP-87 0 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Definitely in for 1 drum; nice price, and not greedy. Please keep up the good work, and current updates. Thanks again. Edited July 10, 2007 by LRRP-87 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hey ya'll this is a thread about Mike's drum only. Ya think we can keep the negative comments about the Wraithmaker out of it please?... thank you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Damn guys, you're all talking about two... Looks like plenty of us will be lucky to get one. I kept missing out on AGP 10 rounders because of people hoarding. So if I miss out on the first few runs of the drums, I'll damn well hold out for a belt-fed mod!!! I shouldn't have the back log like the 10rders did. If the amount for the first batch is spoken for in advance of production starting I will increase the first production run. Everyone that wants one should be able to get in on the first run and get the special price. When the site open and I start taking orders, if you find the quantity available is zero, check back soon and you will probably find that more have been listed as available. That is if there is enough time to increase my order with the shop doing the injecting. Also to comment on the WR price (as mentioned above). I think their higher price is reflected by more costs in material, production and assembly and not based on greed. Metal prices are high right now and cnc machining is time consuming in comparison to injection molding. I can't say for sure but I wouldn't doubt it if it cost them more than half of their price just to make one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOU 0 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 2 more here..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Hey ya'll this is a thread about Mike's drum only. Ya think we can keep the negative comments about the Wraithmaker out of it please?... thank you I would eventually like to get one of each. Each one has desirable traits that the other lacks. It would be nice if one of the members here that is planning on getting one of each could post a non-biased side by side comparison and rate them for price, quality, and function. Unfortunately it seems that everyone has a favorite so an unbiased opinion is probably not likely.I'll admit that the wraithmaker will probably be the second purchase due to the price but I like the aluminum construction si I expect it to cost more to produce. I don't see how that makes him greedy. As much time, effort, and money both of these guys have spent trying to get these out they deserve to make a little money for the effort. If it were not for them our only option would be the 10 round AGP's. With all of the negative comments scaring uniformed potential customers away from the AGP's, I'm surprised either is trying to produce a drum. As far as price goes, I paid about $250.00 for a Beta-mag for my M-4. It is plastic and works well. How much would it cost if it were CNC machine aluminum? I'm not pushing either one. I just think the negative comments on both should stop until you have one in your hand and then make informed and constructive comments to improve any flaws you find. Edited July 9, 2007 by madmilo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
az_shootist 0 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Well done, Mike. You've got a sexy product on your hands. I want two for starters, but have one issue/question. I'm always afraid to buy beta (first generation) products, because the bugs tend to come out only after a bunch of users have been at work finding ways to break them. With that said, are you offering any kind of warranty are guarrentee with regard to materials and design? Assuming that a fatal flaw is revealed, I'd like to know that my mag will not instantly become garbage, and that the mfr will provide upgrade parts, etc. I've tried keeping up with the thread, but pardon me if this has already been covered. Edited July 9, 2007 by az_shootist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Well done, Mike. You've got a sexy product on your hands. I want two for starters, but have one issue/question. I'm always afraid to buy beta (first generation) products, because the bugs tend to come out only after a bunch of users have been at work finding ways to break them. With that said, are you offering any kind of warranty are guarrentee with regard to materials and design? Assuming that a fatal flaw is revealed, I'd like to know that my mag will not instantly become garbage, and that the mfr will provide upgrade parts, etc. I've tried keeping up with the thread, but pardon me if this has already been covered. If something did arise I would make it right, much like agp did by replacing the stainless feedlips with spring steel feedlips. I have went over it time and time again. I even improved areas that should no sign of trouble in weak prototypes. I will stand behind this drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hey ya'll this is a thread about Mike's drum only. Ya think we can keep the negative comments about the Wraithmaker out of it please?... thank you I hope I did not come across as negative about the WR.I think I would like them both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
az_shootist 0 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Well done, Mike. You've got a sexy product on your hands. I want two for starters, but have one issue/question. I'm always afraid to buy beta (first generation) products, because the bugs tend to come out only after a bunch of users have been at work finding ways to break them. With that said, are you offering any kind of warranty are guarrentee with regard to materials and design? Assuming that a fatal flaw is revealed, I'd like to know that my mag will not instantly become garbage, and that the mfr will provide upgrade parts, etc. I've tried keeping up with the thread, but pardon me if this has already been covered. If something did arise I would make it right, much like agp did by replacing the stainless feedlips with spring steel feedlips. I have went over it time and time again. I even improved areas that should no sign of trouble in weak prototypes. I will stand behind this drum. Good enough for me. I'll start with 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 (Done in best Shatner voice:) Must...have...drum! Too...wicked...to...resist! Can't wait! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hey ya'll this is a thread about Mike's drum only. Ya think we can keep the negative comments about the Wraithmaker out of it please?... thank you I would eventually like to get one of each. Each one has desirable traits that the other lacks. It would be nice if one of the members here that is planning on getting one of each could post a non-biased side by side comparison and rate them for price, quality, and function. Unfortunately it seems that everyone has a favorite so an unbiased opinion is probably not likely.I'll admit that the wraithmaker will probably be the second purchase due to the price but I like the aluminum construction si I expect it to cost more to produce. I don't see how that makes him greedy. As much time, effort, and money both of these guys have spent trying to get these out they deserve to make a little money for the effort. If it were not for them our only option would be the 10 round AGP's. With all of the negative comments scaring uniformed potential customers away from the AGP's, I'm surprised either is trying to produce a drum. As far as price goes, I paid about $250.00 for a Beta-mag for my M-4. It is plastic and works well. How much would it cost if it were CNC machine aluminum? I'm not pushing either one. I just think the negative comments on both should stop until you have one in your hand and then make informed and constructive comments to improve any flaws you find. Exactly madmilo. They are two completely different animals and should not be compared based on price alone. I have spoken to Mike Jr about it in detail and he is very confident that his drum will not disappoint anyone who buys one. He will surely stand behind his product to the end. Same goes for Mike D. They have both spent countless hours in R&D, have test fired their drums in multiple weapons and noted everything that could be a concern. The reason for the difference in price is obvious to anyone who knows anything about what it takes to produce something like this. When I get my hands on each of them, and I plan to, I will give an unbiased comparison to the best of my ability and post results with pictures and hopefully video, here for all to see. Both these guys are confident in their products and are not afraid to have them tested and shown here. They are both open to questions and want to answer any concerns. Now this thread was not started to compare the two (That will come in time) or to bash the other guys for having something different. Let's please do them both a favor and keep all the posts in this thread strictly MD Arms related. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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