Tokageko 8 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 http://akpartskits.com/store/product_info....c4f9933cc83e10a Please tell me someone knows something about this. $75 seems a bit much to chance, but I'm tempted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I don't think the price is too out of line considering it includes the HK sight, but the rail is "IMO" worthless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 BobAsh, Pardon my ignorance but why is the rail not worth it? Is it because of the way they are attached to the top cover? I'm with Toka on this one...it looks really tempting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) I don't know for sure, But i'd guess that since the manufacturer of AK's mounted everything on the reciever (side mount optics) and NOT the dust cover, they did so for a reason. That reason is probably that the dustcover is not 1. Super Steady and 2. Reliable to return to same zero when you detach it. But that's just my guess. Edited July 20, 2007 by SaigaNoobie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yep- although that rail looks sexy up there, no top cover-mounted sight will hold zero. I guess it would be an OK place for a lazer or a flashlight, but it would obscure that nice HK sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Actually, I wasn't thinking about optics for the same reason you guys stated. But I was thinking that at least it could be used for flashlights...but then on second thought, a flashlight would be downright silly up there. However, the zero problem would also transfer to the HK sight...so maybe it's not looking too tempting after all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Well, I've got the HK sights on my shotgun, and I like them fine. I leave it on the open notch and I don't do any "precision" shooting with it, so it works great. On a rifle I think you would have trouble with your groups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I'm no expert, but if every AK derivative has been mounted forward of the dust cover or on the reciever, then there HAS to be some reason for it. If the DC were an appropriate mounting place, the Iron sights and or optics would be mounted there since DC's are easy to swap out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 The AK design only allows for the side mount and forward of the dust cover as the most stable mounting options for optics and sights. Krebs and another manufacturer (Kvar?) has a rail option that connects where the front sight mounts all the way back to the retaining screw for the stock. This would be stable enough for sights and optics but of the two only Krebs allows for easy access to the dust cover for removal. I don't think the price for that product has come out but people expect it to be expensive. This of course pertains to the rifle. The shotgun in theory should be a lot more forgiving in zero variances. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Chect this one out cope's sells. http://www.copesdist.com/images/117-1703_IMG.jpg if your tang is cut you SOL with this one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 That looks like it would work, but I don't like the way it has to come off for teardown. I know that guys want to make their gun "different", but the factory scope rail is best, IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 That looks like it would work, but I don't like the way it has to come off for teardown. I know that guys want to make their gun "different", but the factory scope rail is best, IMO. The issue I had w/ the factory setup is unless you are going to use a true Comblock scope, the BP-02 (and others like it) may not put the scope far enough back to obtain proper eye relief. It didn't on the scope I got (built-in rings). I installed the Beryl-style mount and got a lot of extra length with which to play. I agree on the difficulty in removing the DC, but I'm looking to get a machine-screw insert for the stock (so it won't "wear out"); use a screw that the cleaning tool screw driver fits, and I'll be good (I think / hope). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I actually just bought the other version, with the AR rear sight attached, and it's awesome! They shipped the same day, and I got it 2 days later. It was mounted on a russian top cover, FWIW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 C'mon moose, you know you can't make a general statement like "it's awesome" without some jerkoff (in this case me) asking you why is it awesome? So out with it! Stable zero? Good sight picture? Comes with a free case of Czech Budweiser? What?!!! Inquiring minds want to know. Also I think I remember from another thread that you had problems with that rail setup with the peep sight being too high. P.S. Anybody else drink that Czech branded Bud? Blecchh!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) LOL, yeah, I ditched that other setup, it was just too wonky. This is just a standard dust cover with the AR rear sight welded on. I suppose there's nothing so much "awesome" about it, it's just nice to have a pre-made setup, you know? It lines up perfect with my ACE front sight, and the picture is great. haven't had a chance to get it to the range yet. Here's a couple of the crappiest pics you'll ever see (can't find my good camera, this is from the shiatty cell...) EDIT: Found the good camera! The whole thing still needs to be painted and the right handguard attached, but you get the jist. Edited July 21, 2007 by greatmoose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Montana3gunner 13 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I'm no expert, but if every AK derivative has been mounted forward of the dust cover or on the reciever, then there HAS to be some reason for it. If the DC were an appropriate mounting place, the Iron sights and or optics would be mounted there since DC's are easy to swap out. I'm no expert either, but the Galil is based on the AK and it has a dustcover mounted rear sight. Granted, it is designed a little differently but it shows that it can work. I mounted a rear sight on my dustcover and as of yet do not have a return-to zero problem. I can't say for sure yet - I don't have many rounds through it, and haven't removed the DC much, but so far so good. I do think that if you are after precision sights, either iron or optic, the side mount is the way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOU 0 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I too have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I spoke with one gentleman who is builds a fair amount and he said that these covers eventually settle in to the same place after they break in. Basically saying that accuracy wasn't the big issue you might think. (Besides, these are not match rifles ect.) Also...that the HK sights are designed for .308 and 9mm and that might be a bit of a problem on a rifle. (Not a big deal on a shottie) That all said, I can not understand why there is not some kind of hinged dust cover itself with the rail and or sights. Maybe hinged in conjunction with the OEM sights the way the Cope does. Maybe silly...but it makes sens at the moment to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I don't understand the appeal of reducing your rifle's sight radius by moving the front sight back to the gas block. It could, of course, be necessary for building a pistol or short barrelled rifle, but on the standard length rifle I don't get it. All you are going to do is make it harder to shoot accurately at range with the iron sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 NetPackRat: some people think it reduces time for sight aquisition. that's one story I've heard anyway. never tested it myself. my guess is that most people just think it looks good. As for DC mounted rear sights: Tony mounts HK rear sights to Saiga dust-covers all the time. I've not heard any compaints yet. I'm thinking about it as a "battle sight", so no precision work required there. I think the number of problems encountered with the optics will increase in magnitude and frequency the heavier the scope you'd put on it is. I have my own thoughts on how to put constant pressure on the dust cover to make it clamp down to the same place every time. The most reliable (seeming) ones involve glass-bedding at strategic points along the parts of the receiver where the DC contacts it. There's always the addition of a hinge at the front as well... I'm definitely looking at Copes. Krebs.... there's the price, and the as yet unkown delivery time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 You guys seen this one? It's not as pretty as the one Tokage asked about, but it looks solid and you can field-strip with it installed. Armory-Alchemy AK Top Rail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I believe I have seen that one, and to be sure it's a great innovation... or at least an interesting concept. I'm looking at putting a dustcover with a rear sight on a Norinco Hunter though. I know that one of the variations of that particular gun had a DC mounted rear sight. I've never seen one for sale though. Either way, the dust cover on mine is an real bitch to put back on. It seems to have been designed to constantly be under spring tension while attached. It's an accurate gun, and I'd like to take advantage of as much sight radius as I can. Having the ability to add a low power compact scope over the bore (in QD rings) would be a nice plus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOU 0 Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 You guys seen this one? It's not as pretty as the one Tokage asked about, but it looks solid and you can field-strip with it installed. Armory-Alchemy AK Top Rail Interesting that you should post this...over the past couple of days I was thinking of just something like this EXCEPT one that is mounted on the side mounts of our Saiga's. You could then add anything you wanted including flip up sights as well as scopes, holosights ect. You could also easily take the standard cover off and on at will. So......???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exporter 0 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 LOL, yeah, I ditched that other setup, it was just too wonky. This is just a standard dust cover with the AR rear sight welded on. I suppose there's nothing so much "awesome" about it, it's just nice to have a pre-made setup, you know? It lines up perfect with my ACE front sight, and the picture is great. haven't had a chance to get it to the range yet. Greatmoose, Have you tried the new sights at the range yet? I can't decide whether to get the AR or HK sight for my .308. I'd like to be able to shoot to 500 if possible with this sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOU 0 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 You guys seen this one? It's not as pretty as the one Tokage asked about, but it looks solid and you can field-strip with it installed. Armory-Alchemy AK Top Rail Interesting that you should post this...over the past couple of days I was thinking of just something like this EXCEPT one that is mounted on the side mounts of our Saiga's. You could then add anything you wanted including flip up sights as well as scopes, holosights ect. You could also easily take the standard cover off and on at will. So......???? Duh....I was thinking something like this one that of Tapco's that was posted by counter_sniperf on the .308 photo thread. Allot of metal just to add a rear sight....and it's still not back as far as I'd like it. At least you can remove the dust cover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 not refering to the optics end of this conversation (DC mounted optics suck! i've tried it!) but, refering to the iron sight mounted to the DC all i have to say is look at my avatar. i have 2 par rifles now. they have the rear sight mounted to the DC and they are solid as a rock! i have no problems shooting tight groups with this setup, even with the front sight mounted to the gas block. and no, they do not lose "zero" when removed or change POI while firing. like i posted before, my wife shot a sub 1 inch group with my par3 223 back when i first got it. sorry for not keeping that target. wish i would have b/c it was a keystone in proving the accuracy of these little rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texlurch 0 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 My HK sight seems to be holding zero just fine so far, thru about a dozen on/offs... I did make sure and pinch the sides and rear of the DC to get it as tight as possible, and I have a piece of sheet metal welded to the top, that goes forward into the old sight base and keeps the front from moving side to side. I did that more for something to anchor the rail I have on it, but wouldn't hurt with just the open sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 I have been interested in this top cover as well. Both for the S12 and my AK. I have no interest in the rail, but would like to benefit of the longer sight radius. I am not sure if this model is supposed to co-witness with the standard AK tower or not. I know that the same company advertises a top cover using an AR style sight, sans rail, that supposedly will co-witness. My top-cover on my homebuilt Romy is tight. I of course would not want to get a wandering zero problem out of this purchase. Sorry to resurrect this old thread, I was just looking for more long term reports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 I have been interested in this top cover as well. Both for the S12 and my AK. I have no interest in the rail, but would like to benefit of the longer sight radius. I am not sure if this model is supposed to co-witness with the standard AK tower or not. I know that the same company advertises a top cover using an AR style sight, sans rail, that supposedly will co-witness. My top-cover on my homebuilt Romy is tight. I of course would not want to get a wandering zero problem out of this purchase. Sorry to resurrect this old thread, I was just looking for more long term reports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 One thing people need to take into account when they criticize top cover mounts as being unstable is that a tiny bit of movement on a rear sight is MUCH less significant than a tiny bit of movement of a scope mount. About 1/3 as significant and here's how you can verify that. On a top cover mounted scope any movement of the cover will throw the POI off to the same degree as the cover is moved. So if you can move the angle of the cover 2 MOA then your scope will be off 2 MOA. If you have a rear peep mounted on the top cover that's not the case however. Since the sight radius begins at the front sight, if you angle the top cover the same 2 MOA you actually throw the POI off about 2/3 MOA since the top cover is only about 1/3 as long as the total sight radius. Also a rear peep sight is much less likely to be knocked around by either recoil or being bumped against than a scope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 (edited) I don't think the price is too out of line considering it includes the HK sight, but the rail is "IMO" worthless. and Yep- although that rail looks sexy up there, no top cover-mounted sight will hold zero.I guess it would be an OK place for a lazer or a flashlight, but it would obscure that nice HK sight. Aside for the fact that this post managed to get resurrected after 10 months... Given the overall success of the Galil (AR and ARM in 5.56 and .7.62x51 as well as the SAR - and Valmet M-76) - I would beg to differ that top-mounted sights are "worthless" ... Not perfect for optics or dot-sites, but fully functional with Irons. On just about every rifle I have ever seen, that has a removable top-cover and a (usually flip-type) rear sight, all ajustments are made exclusively off the front sight - other than long/short range flips. Most (if not all) of these firearms are (or were until recently) consideted "world class" or "state-of-the-art", and highly desirable firearms. Who knew...? Edited May 5, 2008 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.