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dinzag

Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles

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d4767883e74297e2c3ca59dccb1cadc4.jpg

 

My Saiga is set up exactly like the one pictured. I've filled the mag catch, installed a feed ramp and installed a G2 FCG. Problem is, I only have one US made mag (that I bought just for 922 stupidity). I would like to use the many Russian and Romanian mags I already have.

 

To use foreign made mags, exactly how many more US parts do I need? I'm not interested in moving the FCG and replacing the stock with a PG and standard stock, so that's out.

 

Basically, what I'm asking is this:

 

What was done to that gun in the pic to make it legal with that Soviet Block mag?

 

I'm thinking it's not even compliant. It's just a picture from Auction Arms, and everyone knows how many people are selling non-922r-compliant rifles.

 

You say you've got the G2 installed, but haven't moved the FCG forward, right? So I'm assuming you got the G2 from Dinzag, for unmodified Saigas. If that's the case, you're only getting 2 US parts out of it (1 of the factory FCG components is still used with the G2 for unmodified Saigas. Check Dinzag's site.)

 

So that means you'd still need 2 more US made parts to replace current foreign parts to legally use foreign-made "hi-caps". One way would be to replace you're gas piston with a US made one. Then replace your factory front hand guard for a US made one.

 

Or another way, which I wouldn't really recommend, would be to do one of the things I just said and then swap out the floor plates on your mags for US made ones. You'd be compliant, but I prefer not to depend on mag parts for compliance, but that's just me though.

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Yep, I'm only using two parts of the FCG. I didn't want to move the FCG and screw it up. I'm no gunsmith, and I didn't feel like having my rifle "out to the shop" for a month or more. And I like the factory skeleton stock.

 

It's not an issue now, because I am using a US mag. I've looked into changing the gas piston, think I'll go with that. Who makes the US front handguards?

 

I just find it annoying to have 20 mags for my AK, but only one for the Saiga. Plus, the one US mag I have is the horrible ProMag. Jams about every 10th shot.

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Yep, I'm only using two parts of the FCG. I didn't want to move the FCG and screw it up. I'm no gunsmith, and I didn't feel like having my rifle "out to the shop" for a month or more. And I like the factory skeleton stock.

 

It's not an issue now, because I am using a US mag. I've looked into changing the gas piston, think I'll go with that. Who makes the US front handguards?

 

I just find it annoying to have 20 mags for my AK, but only one for the Saiga. Plus, the one US mag I have is the horrible ProMag. Jams about every 10th shot.

 

I'm no gunsmith either, trust me. When I joined this site, I had only been into guns/shooting for a short while, and only had one gun; a .22 rifle. I thought I'd mess up my Saiga too, by attempting the conversion. But it came out great, and was a hell of a lot easier than I thought it would be (see my sigline picture for the end result). Just something to think about, if you do ever want to convert it.

 

Anyway, you can get US made handguards from lots of places. You'll need a regular AK gas tube, and a lower hand guard retainer to use them though (both can be found at Dinzags site). Or you could get the Tapco Saiga Galil hand guard, for an easy swap.

 

If you do decide to swap out the gas piston, you'll still need to swap out 1 more part, for a US made one.

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Eh, I don't really want to change the look of the rifle. I thought you ment someone makes a US hand guard that looks like the Saiga one.

 

I didn't want to use Mag parts for 922 either, but I think I'll change the piston and get some Tapco followers and make BHO mags.

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There are still some questionable parts and grey areas of the 922® law, specifically the part that states "particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes". Arguably, as long as you have the 10-round magazine in your immediate possession, it is "readily adaptable" for sporting purposes. A 10-second magazine swap makes it sporting legal, and it would be very hard for them to argue against that or prosecute given the wording of the law, as even a judge could see it. It's one of those funny things. If you replaced 1 internal part, you can be 100% safe, although as I said, it would be very difficult to prosecute it either way.

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I WANT TO SET UP MY SAIGA SHOTGUN JUST LIKE THE ONE IN THE PICTURE. MY QUESTION IS, HOW DID YOU HAVE THE SKELETON STOCK INSTALLED? WERE YOU ABLE TO DO IT YOURSELF OR DID YOU HAVE A GUNSMITH WORK ON IT? KEEP IN MINE, I'M NOT VERY GUN SAVVY.

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I WANT TO SET UP MY SAIGA SHOTGUN JUST LIKE THE ONE IN THE PICTURE. MY QUESTION IS, HOW DID YOU HAVE THE SKELETON STOCK INSTALLED? WERE YOU ABLE TO DO IT YOURSELF OR DID YOU HAVE A GUNSMITH WORK ON IT? KEEP IN MINE, I'M NOT VERY GUN SAVVY.

 

That skeleton stock is a factory piece. It's a drop-in replacement. If you can take out a couple screws, you can install that stock.

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I just wanted to say if anyone is in doubt about 922r replace as many counted parts with US made parts as you can. 922r is up for interpretation by the ATF, they may read it one way and we may read it another. I have contacted the local ATF several times about 5 years ago and got different answers each time. What it boils down to is in court we will loose and the ATF will win. I typically do the Tapco G2 (3 parts) and Tapco hand guard and stock (2 parts) plus a pistol grip and a Tromix muzzle brake (1 part). Thats 6 parts out of 14. The Tromix gas piston is another great option as well plus with the AGP mags (3 parts). It's better to spend some money than be non compliant with the ATF. I am sure court costs and fines plus the loss of your rifle will be much more expensive.

Edited by ripper1

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I just wanted to say if anyone is in doubt about 922r just put as many USA parts on as you can.

 

While I (and many others) know what you mean, I'd reword that to say "Replace as many counted parts with US made parts". There's been quite a few people come here, and assume just adding US made parts helps them. It doesn't. You need to replace parts with US made ones (that are "counted" on the list).

 

You also get a lot of people who think every part on a Saiga has to do with compliance. Asking if certain scopes, scope mounts, VFG's, etc., will help them gain compliance.

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I just wanted to say if anyone is in doubt about 922r just put as many USA parts on as you can.

 

While I (and many others) know what you mean, I'd reword that to say "Replace as many counted parts with US made parts". There's been quite a few people come here, and assume just adding US made parts helps them. It doesn't. You need to replace parts with US made ones (that are "counted" on the list).

 

You also get a lot of people who think every part on a Saiga has to do with compliance. Asking if certain scopes, scope mounts, VFG's, etc., will help them gain compliance.

Very True. Plus not everyone wants to move the trigger assembly forward. I listed specific USA counted compliance parts. 922r is so confusing to everyone even the ATF. So if in doubt Replace as many ATF counted parts with US made parts.

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I just wanted to say if anyone is in doubt about 922r just put as many USA parts on as you can.

 

While I (and many others) know what you mean, I'd reword that to say "Replace as many counted parts with US made parts". There's been quite a few people come here, and assume just adding US made parts helps them. It doesn't. You need to replace parts with US made ones (that are "counted" on the list).

 

You also get a lot of people who think every part on a Saiga has to do with compliance. Asking if certain scopes, scope mounts, VFG's, etc., will help them gain compliance.

Very True. Plus not everyone wants to move the trigger assembly forward. I listed specific USA counted compliance parts. 922r is so confusing to everyone even the ATF. So if in doubt Replace as many ATF counted parts with US made parts.

 

:up:

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THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION. I HAVE YET TO CONVERT OR UPGRADE BUT, I WILL NOW. FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO OWN ONE OF EACH CALIBER, STARTED BUYING THEM WHEN THEY WERE STILL EAA FINISHED WITH THE LAST TWO BEING RAAC. AND YES THERE WAS A PRICE DIFF :blues: ERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO COMPANIES.

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Fascinating reading.

 

Being in NJ are options are limited with what we can do to EBR's.

 

Having said that I would like to be able to use 15 round mags.

 

My understanding is that if I change the buttstock and handguard to US made, and then put in a US made 15 round mag, I am ok (mag counts as 3) - not subject to 922r

 

If I want to use the factory mags, which aren't hi cap, the gun reverts back to an import weapon and subject to 922r but has no evil features so it is in compliance.

 

Is that correct?

 

(I wonder if you went back in time and brought this thread to a 1960's gun store what they would think of it)

Edited by Highland Ranger

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Man all this is confusing, how about just dressing the gun up with all us made accessories like stock pistol grip and mags and all, will it be ok then???

No, that would not necessarily do it. The point is to have ten or less foreign parts on the gun to be 922r compliant. Please review what are 'countable parts.' You have to remove enough foreign parts and replace them with US-made parts. You can hang a bunch of US-made accessories on the thing as you want but if they're not 'countable parts' it doesn't mean squat. The parts you mention are countable, but I would not depend on magazines to make up the numbers for compliance. Maybe you do get the picture, but your use of the term 'accessories' can be misleading/confusing. Good luck!

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Hi, I am not sure of my compliance, any thought would help. What about a 19" S12 w/ russian made folding stock that has a pistol grip (all one piece). Tromix shark break, US made all aluminum forearm. Legal or illegal???

 

The Russian made stock with pistol grip does nothing for your compliance, and adds an additional part. US made brake and foregrip lessen your needed replacement parts by two, from 15 to 13. You still need to get down to ten or less foreign parts. Suggest a US made piston (the hockey puck thing) and the fire control group but you will need to modify the hammer to accomodate the BHO. See the technical section for details. Do NOT depend on US made mags for compliance or you will not be able to use the original mags. Hope that helps.

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Read and went to that site that had to check boxes.. Not sure if i'm understanding it correctly.. So the saiga 308 in it's original configuration is 922r compliant, right? or is it not and our job is to removed at least 4 imported parts and use us parts? If it comes illegal in the beginning, why even sell it to us? Okay, now what if all I did was added:

 

http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/S...ail+Scope+Mount

 

and

 

RAA stock http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/S...letonized+Stock

 

Would my gun still be 922R compliant? legal? I would have to replace 6 other foreign parts to be compliant, eh? Damn confusing..

 

..sry.. made a thread like this in the 308 section... Didn't know this thread was here

 

Overall,

 

This is like saying, "Help our economy and not theirs" US seems to have this thing with foreign quality. I.E. Honda > Ford. Imagine everytime buying a Honda and we have to swap out japanese parts with american parts so we can drive it legally. Omg, car won't last past 50k miles... We're basically buying this gun and swapping out parts before actually being able to use it...retarded...lol! Hope the quality in the us gun saiga parts are just as good as its original parts.

Edited by soulless

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22_shooter,

 

Yeah.. gotta read it again... factory parts as in it's factory the original configuration as it would be in pistol grip....etc..? well, i'm thinking 6 parts.. cuz it says, the saiga comes in 14 foreign parts.. so since the RAA stock and the scope mount? is a foreign made part, that = 16 foreign parts now. I gotta replace 6 parts..

 

man.. i'll read it again..confusing

Edited by soulless

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Can someone please check my math.

Heres what I've added:

1 FOREARM-SGM TACTICAL GEN. 1 SAIGA 12 GAUGE TRI-RAIL +1

1 MOUNT-SAIGA AK47 SIDE RAIL LOW PROFILE +0

1 STOCK-SAIGA/AK 47 TAPCO T-6 COLLAPSIBLE BLACK +1

1 GRIP-SAIGA, AK47 SAW-STYLE PISTOL +1

1 TRIGGER GROUP-TROMIX SAIGA FIRE CONTROL GROUP +3

1 TRIGGER GUARD-SAIGA 12 TROMIX D-I-Y +0

1 SAIGA 12 TROMIX FLASH HIDER +1

1 Saiga 12 Gauge Shotgun 12rd Magazine +3

1 VERTICAL GRIP - FOLDING +0

 

If my count is correct then I have 10 US made 922r pieces.

Since I have a 19in threaded barrel I should have a starting count of 14...right? So.....14-10 gives me 4 foreign parts, well under the 10...am I right or wrong ?...Thanks

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I LIVE IN UPSTATE NY AND I JUST PURCHASED A SAIGA 223 RIFLE, I WANTED TO ADD A TAPCO COLLAPSIBLE STOCK WITH PISTOL GRIP ,TAPCO HAND GUARD , AND A SUREFIRE 30 RD MAGAZINE INTO IT. BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS 100% LEGAL TO DO THIS . AFTER READIND ABOUT 922R IT IS STILL NOT CLEAR TO ME , EVEN THOUGH YOU EXPLAIN THE PARTS COUNT, IT STILL MENTION THAT THROWING A PISTOL GRIP AND COLLAPSIBLE STOCK IS NOT COMPLIANT AND ILLEGAL , CAN SOME ONE PLEASE SPECIFY IF I CAN MAKE THESE CHANGES, ANY HELP IN THIS SITUATION WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.......

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Starting at 14:

 

1 Forearm-Sgm Tactical Gen. 1 Saiga 12 Gauge Tri-Rail......-1 = 13

1 Mount-Saiga Ak47 side rail low profile...........................-0 = 13

1 Stock-Saiga/Ak 47 Tapco T-6 collapsible black................-1 = 12

1 Grip-Saiga, Ak47 Saw-Style Pistol.................................-0 = 12

1 Trigger group-Tromix Saiga fire control group..................-3 = 9

1 Trigger guard-Saiga 12 Tromix D-I-Y..............................-0 = 9

1 Saiga 12 Tromix flash hider..........................................-1 = 8

1 Vertical grip - folding...................................................-0 = 8

1 Saiga 12 Gauge Shotgun 12rd magazine.........................-3 = 5 * when in gun

 

 

Can someone please check my math.

Heres what I've added:

1 FOREARM-SGM TACTICAL GEN. 1 SAIGA 12 GAUGE TRI-RAIL +1

1 MOUNT-SAIGA AK47 SIDE RAIL LOW PROFILE +0

1 STOCK-SAIGA/AK 47 TAPCO T-6 COLLAPSIBLE BLACK +1

1 GRIP-SAIGA, AK47 SAW-STYLE PISTOL +1

1 TRIGGER GROUP-TROMIX SAIGA FIRE CONTROL GROUP +3

1 TRIGGER GUARD-SAIGA 12 TROMIX D-I-Y +0

1 SAIGA 12 TROMIX FLASH HIDER +1

1 Saiga 12 Gauge Shotgun 12rd Magazine +3

1 VERTICAL GRIP - FOLDING +0

 

If my count is correct then I have 10 US made 922r pieces.

Since I have a 19in threaded barrel I should have a starting count of 14...right? So.....14-10 gives me 4 foreign parts, well under the 10...am I right or wrong ?...Thanks

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I LIVE IN UPSTATE NY AND I JUST PURCHASED A SAIGA 223 RIFLE, I WANTED TO ADD A TAPCO COLLAPSIBLE STOCK WITH PISTOL GRIP ,TAPCO HAND GUARD , AND A SUREFIRE 30 RD MAGAZINE INTO IT. BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS 100% LEGAL TO DO THIS . AFTER READIND ABOUT 922R IT IS STILL NOT CLEAR TO ME , EVEN THOUGH YOU EXPLAIN THE PARTS COUNT, IT STILL MENTION THAT THROWING A PISTOL GRIP AND COLLAPSIBLE STOCK IS NOT COMPLIANT AND ILLEGAL , CAN SOME ONE PLEASE SPECIFY IF I CAN MAKE THESE CHANGES, ANY HELP IN THIS SITUATION WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.......

 

Let's clear some things up first.

 

- Telescoping/folding/collapsible stocks are illegal on post-ban rifles (which your Saiga is) in NY.

 

- Any magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, must be pre-ban. Surefire mags are not pre-ban.

 

Check the link in my signature, for info that's specific to NY's ban.

 

 

 

EDIT: Where in NY are ya?

Edited by 22_Shooter

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I'm buying a new Saiga-12 from a local gun store here in Mobile, AL, it supposedly comes from Uncle Russkie with a 5 rnd mag... Cool, we're compliant with 922r.

However, the dealer includes a American made 12rnd mag.

 

Question: Does inserting the 12 rnd mag make it non compliant?

Edited by ChileRelleno

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