DaGroaner 2 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Dutch bishop: Call God 'Allah' to ease relations AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims. Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass. "Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem." A survey in the Netherlands' biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf on Wednesday found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop's view, which also drew ridicule. "Sure. Lets call God Allah. Lets then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper. Gerrit de Fijter, chairman of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, told the paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue", but added: "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it." A spokesman from the union of Moroccan mosques in Amsterdam said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture. Religious tensions on the rise Signs of tension had already surfaced in the last two weeks after the head of a committee for former Muslims was attacked and populist anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders called for the Koran to be banned. Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS. Some Dutch Muslims welcomed his comments as a valuable gesture of support coming just days after Wilders branded the Quran a "fascist book" in the vein of Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which legitimizes violence. Wilders, whose new party won nine seats out of the 150 in parliament in last November's elections, is well known for his firebrand remarks on Islam. He said an attack by two Moroccans and a Somali on the head of a Dutch group for "ex-Muslims" had spurred him to write. Issues of immigration and integration had faded from the Dutch political agenda over the last year, after a period of unprecedented social tension sparked by the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, a filmmaker critical of Islam, by a Muslim militant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 he can go fuck himself Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 and the lunacy continues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 he been indulgine in to much amsterdam hash and weed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Let's hope the pope crushes him under his jackboo-er slippers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hello I propose we change the name "Bishop" to "Ball-less Pussy". From here-on out, he shall be referred to as "Ball-less Pussy Tiny Muskens". I think it has a nice ring to it, and it kind of rolls-off the tongue.... With all DUE respect, guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 HelloI propose we change the name "Bishop" to "Ball-less Pussy". From here-on out, he shall be referred to as "Ball-less Pussy Tiny Muskens". I think it has a nice ring to it, and it kind of rolls-off the tongue.... With all DUE respect, guido2 in Houston I'd say that may be a bit more respect than that ass deserves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 We can only hope that the bunny rabbit gets him! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 And for those with any doubt that Allah is an absolutely improper name for the God of Christianity: The word "Allah" literally means "the God". It is related to the word "el" which is like the English word "god". We capitalize it to refer to one God, and in lowercase it refers to a polytheistic or other sort of god. At first, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the word "Allah", apart from being rooted in Arabic, whereas Christians believe that God revealed himself to the Jews, who made "el" into "Eloihim". But there are two major ways "Allah" does not fit Christianity. First, "the God" is more of a title than a name. Christianity believes that God is both transcendent (above everything we know) and imminent (present in this world and working in every situation - regardless of different views on predestination and such.) Islam believes in a god that's out there, to whom they will answer when they die, but who requires them in their human strength to do his will on earth. Christians of all traditions believe that when people serve God it is in fact God at work and God who deserves the glory, and that ultimately our reward is being with Him, which we can't earn, but is made possible through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Second, the historical context - Throughout the first few centuries of Christianity, the church faced and refuted many false teachings within the church. These mainly had to do with the Trinity and the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Through the creeds and councils of the church, they made it clear that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were three persons in ONE God. How exactly it works is the sort of thing Christian clergy joke about ever possibly understanding. But what is agreed upon is that God is triune - three-in-one. Trinity is actually short for triunity. Islam embraced many beliefs that had already been taught and rejected by Christianity. They in turn have mistaught to this day that Christians believe in three gods. In fact, some even mix them up and teach that the three gods Christians believe in are God the Father, Jesus, and Mary. So the word "Allah" is intended specifically to reject the triune God of Christianity and even reject the whole concept of a triune God, instead intentionally mislabeling Christianity as tritheism. Bottom line - Allah is NOT the God of Christianity. Christians using that name are severely mistaken. The belief that "God has many names" and "many paths to one faith" is NOT Christianity. Even though Christians hold different beliefs on how Jesus may save people who don't know Him by name, Christianity cannot accept that there is any other way to Salvation but Jesus. That belief is called "pluralism", and ultimately becomes a different religion, since it believes in a different ultimate, objective principle. Unfortunately, some people call it "liberalism" and teach it in many mainline churches as just a more open minded Christianity. If you're a pluralist, I can respectfully disagree with you the same way I would respectfully disagree with a Jew, Hindu, atheist, non-aggressive Muslim, or anyone else of a different religion. We don't have to fight and we can interact in a friendly way on things that don't require arguing about faith. But please, for the love of of sanity and honesty, don't call pluralism or Islam the same thing as Christianity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 (edited) Well said BattleRifleG3. 1911 Edited August 16, 2007 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Very well said indeed. And while we are at it. Islam didn't even come into being until several hundred years AFTER Christianity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 I do not recognize anyone's right to impose their "beliefs" on ME. I am a free American. Any vengefull god dosent mean shit to me. I send my prayers to a benevolent God. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 And while we are at it.Islam didn't even come into being until several hundred years AFTER Christianity. Indeed. Shortly after all of the major heresies relating to the Trinity were exhaustively rejected from the Church. My personal interpretation is that Islam is actually a combination of christological heterodoxy (ie church heresies) mixed in with some pre-Christian Arabian traditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I am Catholic but this bishop is off his rocker. I did a search and found that 92% of people in the netherlands thinks it is absurd. The bishop in Spain is battling muslims that want the Alhambra back and the bishop is telling them nuts. good for him. The muslim are whining they built it so it belongs to them. If thats the case Haga Sophia in Constantiople, I mean Instanbul, should be given back to the Greek Orthodox church. While I am a catholic whining the pope is about to dictate that mass be said in Latin again. I remember that crap as a little bitty altar boy as my cue to go into a day dream coma. There is nothing sacred about Latin and it will just give all the rabid catholic haters a tired and old weapon to use. DUMB!!! These Europeans are in some deep shit and some are beginning to realize just how much stink there is. I read that government employees in Britain got a memo 'suggesting' they refrain from eating lunch out of cultural sensitivity because it Ring a long ding dong Ramada ding something for the muslims and they fast during the day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I'd rather attend a Latin mass vs. attending one in Arabic though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I'd rather attend a Latin mass vs. attending one in Arabic though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aethelbert 1 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 These Europeans are in some deep shit and some are beginning to realize just how much stink there is. I read that government employees in Britain got a memo 'suggesting' they refrain from eating lunch out of cultural sensitivity because it Ring a long ding dong Ramada ding something for the muslims and they fast during the day. Maybe someone should suggest that Muslims fast during the Lenten season, too... out of cultural considerations, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 There are some Christians who fast and pray during Ramadan that Muslims would turn to Jesus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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