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New MD-20 Drum Pics and Videos!!! Check them out!&#33


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Here are some pics and videos of the final design. Just wanted to show you all the changes I mentioned about a week ago. They make the drum even stronger. More changes and effect than I have time to go into. If you are wondering about something just ask. The pics of the cover, black one is before the changes and the clear one is showing the changes to the cover. Click the pics to make them big, click it again to make it huge!

Videos filmed with a converted 19inch, converted 23inch, and unconverted factory camo 23inch. I didn't film with the Troxim SBS. I wanted to but it has never been broke in. I was going to put a 5rd mag through it and then a drum or 2. It wasn't cycling the birdshot out of the 5rd mag so I didn't even try with the drum. I fired 7 or 8 rds from it with a 5rd mag and it either fte or ftf every time. I didn't want to break the gun in since I sold it so I abandoned the video with it.

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I like the clear cover too. I'm going to look at some smoke samples and see what I think about them. I might go with all smoke, all clear, or maybe a choice of clear or smoke. What do you guys think? The cover being transparent lets you see your shell count from the rear while the gun is shoulder with just a glance (you won't have to turn you weapon sideways with this drum :angel: ) The last version was way stronger by just adding the band and ribs. Now there are twice the ribs on the side, the ribs are a stronger shape, taller in front, the band has been given teeth, where the drum meets the tower thickened, screw bosses enlarge to allow for the lip that the cover now tucks into flush. The cover has been given a rail the entire diameter for the shells to ride instead of just having a shell adjuster on the previous version, that let me run the ribs out to the edge. The part of the cover that tucked into the drum in the original design run deeper into the drum with this design (not talking about the edge of the cover that is now tucked in as well), cover will only go on the right way. All of this plays together for a super strong design. Before I did all this I was sure the drum could take a beating or be dropped. Now you can drop it and stomp the hell out of it if you want. I doubted before it would stand up to the "run it over test" but now I think it has a good chance. I do plan on running one over too by the way just to see. Competition guys could drop the mag fully loaded repeatedly, so empty is definitely not going to be a problem. I am glad I looked into the 3 inch design before I put the 2 3/4 version out. If I would have just went with the 2 3/4 inch design, you would have them by now, but it wouldn't have looked like it does now. Pursuing the 3 inch design gave me a lot more time to come up with all these feature that has made it go from a strong design to an extra super strong design. I am very glad I didn't rush to market. Wraithmaker felt it was a race and look what it got them. A bad design that they refuse to fess up to and they try to blame the gun and offer a service to try and get more money. When my drum is released you will all know that it wasn't the gun causing the WM problems. It was their lack of knowing the different tolerances allowed by Izhmash when building the saigas. Izhmash designed their mags with those differences in mind and they don't have a problem, the same with my drum. WM designed their drum using only one saiga-12 for fit and function tests thinking that saiga-12s had the same tight specs as an ar or something (still a bad idea to only test in one even if they was making it for a AR). That among a few other things is what is causing their problems. I really didn't want to point this out but I have had a lot of people asking me if they would need to modify their gun like with the WM drum. WM's rushed to market bad design as caused people to be skeptical about my design and I just wanted to get it out in the open. My drum was designed by a saiga lover that didn't rush it to market just to get sales. I took my time with this to try and make the best product possible. I was open and honest the whole way through. I made this drum for us and our saigas. Not for my pocket. Being able to sell them is just a bonus. I can't wait to start shipping these out to everyone here. You will be very pleased and impressed I'm sure. And when they do start shipping, I will not disappear from the forum either. I love this place and will continue to come here unlike ALL the others aftermarket mag makers. Also to try and show my appreciation I offered the discounted price first because I know that probably 80% or more of the first run will go to members here. I wanted you guys to get the good deal. I didn't want you to buy them at full price just to find out that a few months later your drum wasn't worth what you paid for it anymore. I seriously doubt I will ever sell them as cheap as $165 again, even to dealers or with quantity discounts. That will keep your drums from dropping in value like the agp mags did. A dealer can't sell them for less than $165 if he is paying more than $165 for them. I'm doing this for you just as much as I'm doing it for me. I didn't have to offer the special price but wanted to say thanks and show some love. :super:

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Checking the round count can help in some competitive situations (typically you don't even want to move your head a few inches to peek, but if you are transitioning between spots and round count is getting critical, this would be good! Clear would be my choice if I was convinced that it was as strong, and that it wouldn't cloud during cleaning and scratch too easily (otherwise, I'd go cloudy). An option to buy an extra back would be cool.

 

Hey, how bout a audible shell counter, with an ear phone jack ..... J/K!

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Thanks Guys!! I'm very glad you like it. I was skeptical as to if I over did it when looking at the CAD drawing. But when I got the parts in hand I felt they were perfect. I'm going tolook at a few different shades of smoke to see how dark I can go and still see the shells easily. I love an all balck gun, but when I went from a clear cover at first to black cover prototypes, I really missed being able seeing into the drum. It spoiled me. Thanks again guys! :super::super::super::super::super:

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I think the answer to Clear or Smoke or Black is quite simple - make a small run of some "extra" back covers and then let guys chose the one they want at the time of the order, + also offer them as an option part separately, so in case someone changes his mind about the color later they can always get the other one!!! That would be a Win!=Win! for everyone.

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I think the answer to Clear or Smoke or Black is quite simple - make a small run of some "extra" back covers and then let guys chose the one they want at the time of the order, + also offer them as an option part separately, so in case someone changes his mind about the color later they can always get the other one!!! That would be a Win!=Win! for everyone.

I think that is what I will do. I 'll send out an email to all with orders and see what cover option they want before I start injecting them. And list the extra covers on my sight so people can get an second cover if they want it. One thing about the all black one though. It will still be shiny. The mold is highly polished to give a good clear finish for the transparent cover. But someone could take a very fine sandpaper (600 grit or so) and rough up the outer surface to take the glare off. Also, those with orders. Please don't send me your cover color request at this time. It will be easier for me if I can send out the notice and start taking the requests all together. I also will need to get this worked into my website and system control panel first as well. Thanks for the suggestion, Max. I had thought of it but you have sealed the deal on it for me. :super:

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Mike,

I would suggest that you pick a standard cover and give people an opportunity to change from the standard.

That way you won't be delayed if people don't answer your email. Set a date for them to respond by and if they don't they get the standard-whatever it is.

Just my two cents.

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Mike,

I would suggest that you pick a standard cover and give people an opportunity to change from the standard.

That way you won't be delayed if people don't answer your email. Set a date for them to respond by and if they don't they get the standard-whatever it is.

Just my two cents.

That's a good idea, Thanks!

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Ideally, my vote would be for a "smoked" version of the back plate, providing of course that the shells (amount there of) was still discernable.

 

My concern (as a potential product customer) is the durability or strength variance between the clear and/or smoked back, versus the solid black back plate. Naturally I've no idea what plastics, polymers or whatever are being used in the molding process (and I'm not asking what they are; they should remain a trade/manufacturer secret! :up: ). But, the vast majority of plastic polymers that are mixed or created to make a translucent or clear form.... generally are more brittle are they not?

 

I'm just curious about that particular aspect (the 'brittleness') of these clear and smoked back plates? Granted, the back plate area of the drum would arguably receive the least amount of 'fair wear and tear' or stress during the drum's life.... The only specific location or area of concern might be where the back plate screws into the body of the drum; the tabs with the screw holes are located which the screws insert to (if I'm not losing ya).

 

Anyway, I'm just sharing my thoughts and concerns. I FRIGGEN LOVE THE DRUM that Mike's sweated and toiled over, and in spite of the fact of not owning a Saiga-12 (I'm a bloody S-20 owner) I would be hugely surprised if I don't make a purchase order for this exemplary product that Mike has brought to us.

 

:super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super:

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Ideally, my vote would be for a "smoked" version of the back plate, providing of course that the shells (amount there of) was still discernable.

 

My concern (as a potential product customer) is the durability or strength variance between the clear and/or smoked back, versus the solid black back plate. Naturally I've no idea what plastics, polymers or whatever are being used in the molding process (and I'm not asking what they are; they should remain a trade/manufacturer secret! :up: ). But, the vast majority of plastic polymers that are mixed or created to make a translucent or clear form.... generally are more brittle are they not?

 

I'm just curious about that particular aspect (the 'brittleness') of these clear and smoked back plates? Granted, the back plate area of the drum would arguably receive the least amount of 'fair wear and tear' or stress during the drum's life.... The only specific location or area of concern might be where the back plate screws into the body of the drum; the tabs with the screw holes are located which the screws insert to (if I'm not losing ya).

 

Anyway, I'm just sharing my thoughts and concerns. I FRIGGEN LOVE THE DRUM that Mike's sweated and toiled over, and in spite of the fact of not owning a Saiga-12 (I'm a bloody S-20 owner) I would be hugely surprised if I don't make a purchase order for this exemplary product that Mike has brought to us.

 

:super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super:

Actually the cover is what gives the drum most of it's strength. It is the part that ties it all together. It braces the diameter of the drum and keeps it from bowing/compressing around the outer edge.

I was worried about the screw hole/boss location as well. I thought it would be the most likely place for a break on the entire drum. Below are some pics of a full load drop tested cover and boss I did. I was very surprised with the results. I dropped it with a full load about ten times from 5 ft and 2 times from 8ft, making sure it hit directly on the same boss and cover edge. It didn't break. The cover was starting to misform a little and was barely starting to get a tear. (the weakness of polycarbonate is not brittleness , it is memory. What I mean by memory is polycarbonate is more likely to mushroom or bend. Not retract back to where it started that good. But still to my amazement, the cover didn't break. Also the test was done with a cover that wasn't tucked in and surrounded by tougher material. It didn't have a lip around the edge. It was this test that made me think to wrap the cover edge like it is now. The production design will be way stronger and tougher than the one I tortured that still didn't break.

 

Remember to click the pic to make it big and then after it enlarges, click it again to make it huge for the best detail!!!

Here are the pics: First 2 pics are of the drop tested boss and eyelet.

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The next pic is of the drop tested eyelet on the left and an unharmed one on the right. If you look at the drop tested one you can see a little horizontal line just below the screw hole and to the left. It looks like a crack but it is actually a tear.

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The last pic is of the an unharmed boss and eyelet like the one drop tested (on the left). The one on the right is the new design where the boss is enlarged and the cover edge is wrapped. Compare the 2 and notice how the drop tested one was taking the hit directly on the cover edge and how the final design is much better protected and reinforced. I could have left it the way it was because I doubt anybody was going to drop theirs like I did, fully loaded on the concrete, hitting the same place just right over and over again (and it was still in perfect functioning condition). But again, more proof that I put everything I had into this and spared no expenses ( the extra changes showed in post #1 , #2 and this post have added almost $20,000 to the cost of the molds :eek: ). I could have left it the same and still charged the same price for the drum of lesser design. But like I said, I wanted to make the best drum I possibly could. And I think I came very close!!! :super::super::super:

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Mike bro ...you have done it! WM ain't got shit on that...IMHO!

Hat off :devil:

Thanks man!!! I can't wait until you and everybody gets them. It is such a great thing to hold in your hands. It is pretty unreal what it has grown into. I am so glad I put a hold on the molds when I was looking into the 3 inch design. The entire project really benefited from having more time to play and think on it. My final design is twice the drum it was 5 months ago. This will be it, unless I think of something small that won't delay production. Now I need to move on to other aspects of it. I need to line up shipping boxes. I also need to make an instruction card that shows how to dis-assemble it (so simple to take apart and put back together. It will take twice as long to put the 6 screws in than putting the whole rest of the drum together!

I have a lot of this and that stuff I need to do. I probably won't have much new drum stuff to show now on the drum design. I guess pretty soon I can show you piles of springs, feedlips, screws, e-clips, .... :lolol: ! I have some other stuff going but really don't want to tell and talk about it right now. I have been having a hard time doing everything that needs to be done with the drum and have time left to answer every ones questions with this alone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit. But if I have a jump in questions and answers on other things right now I feel it would put me over the edge of good customer service to not so good of service. I am having the hardest time finding time to make phone calls to people. And the time I do get to be on the phone doesn't go far. I wish I had a secretary that knew all the answers. Maybe later. Thanks again guys!!!

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