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Rock on Mike! I like the look of the clear, but would probably choose smoke in case the clear may begin to show scratches and get cloudy over time.

 

I think I will hold off doing any mods to my S12 to make the WM drum work, until I get yours. That way I can note the differences in operation before any changes in tolerances are made to the gun. Will hit you with the feedback and details ASAP.

 

Thanks for the great job you're doing, and even more for not getting greedy. :super:

Edited by badman400
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Actually the cover is what gives the drum most of it's strength. It is the part that ties it all together. It braces the diameter of the drum and keeps it from bowing/compressing around the outer edge.

I was worried about the screw hole/boss location as well. I thought it would be the most likely place for a break on the entire drum. Below are some pics of a full load drop tested cover and boss I did. I was very surprised with the results. I dropped it with a full load about ten times from 5 ft and 2 times from 8ft, making sure it hit directly on the same boss and cover edge. It didn't break. The cover was starting to misform a little and was barely starting to get a tear. (the weakness of polycarbonate is not brittleness , it is memory. What I mean by memory is polycarbonate is more likely to mushroom or bend. Not retract back to where it started that good. But still to my amazement, the cover didn't break. Also the test was done with a cover that wasn't tucked in and surrounded by tougher material. It didn't have a lip around the edge. It was this test that made me think to wrap the cover edge like it is now. The production design will be way stronger and tougher than the one I tortured that still didn't break.

 

The next pic is of the drop tested eyelet on the left and an unharmed one on the right. If you look at the drop tested one you can see a little horizontal line just below the screw hole and to the left. It looks like a crack but it is actually a tear.

The last pic is of the an unharmed boss and eyelet like the one drop tested (on the left). The one on the right is the new design where the boss is enlarged and the cover edge is wrapped. Compare the 2 and notice how the drop tested one was taking the hit directly on the cover edge and how the final design is much better protected and reinforced.

I could have left it the way it was because I doubt anybody was going to drop theirs like I did, fully loaded on the concrete, hitting the same place just right over and over again (and it was still in perfect functioning condition). But again, more proof that I put everything I had into this and spared no expenses ( the extra changes showed in post #1 , #2 and this post have added almost $20,000 to the cost of the molds :eek: ). I could have left it the same and still charged the same price for the drum of lesser design. But like I said, I wanted to make the best drum I possibly could. And I think I came very close!!! :super::super::super:

 

Thank you Mike for answering my concerns. YOU FRIGGEN HIT THE BULLSEYE WITH MODIFYING YOUR DESIGN TO PROTECT THE TABS/EYELET HOLES!

 

You totally have me SOLD :up: ... :up: ... :up: Your blatant conviction to produce the absolute best product possible, is truly commendable!

 

Some of you might have caught on to a few forum post inquiries I made to WM regarding the bloody weapon modifications they LATER (after having gone to market with their product) indicated that would likely need to be performed on our guns in order to have their drum function properly; they were slow to respond to my inquiries, and in my opinion evasive with their answers.

 

Mike, you and your efforts on your product are absolutely awesome! You're "the shit" dude!!!!!!!! (conveying that with the utmost respect toward being complimentary).

 

:super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super: ... :super:

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i notice their evassiveness too gary...

they give me an un-easy feeling

nevermind the ginourmous ration of shit mike took when he talked drum the first time

i feel he earned this... not wraithmaker... that make sense

 

i did order a wraithmaker stainless piston and they were easy to deal with... BUT

 

mike d is THE SHIT

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ok just to throw it out there, I ordered two of mikes

 

that being said

 

 

lets not turn this into a "bash WM" thread...glorification and worshping of mikes drum is cool though (because it kicks ass)

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Mike,

 

The money order will be in the mail Monday morning, I am so friggin empressed with the way you do buisiness and the obviouse quality of your craftsmanship thanks for all the info, and the low low cost.

 

 

P.S I will purposefully buy one at full price later/Oct or Nov

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  • 7 months later...
I like the clear cover too. I'm going to look at some smoke samples and see what I think about them. I might go with all smoke, all clear, or maybe a choice of clear or smoke. What do you guys think? The cover being transparent lets you see your shell count from the rear while the gun is shoulder with just a glance (you won't have to turn you weapon sideways with this drum :angel: ) The last version was way stronger by just adding the band and ribs. Now there are twice the ribs on the side, the ribs are a stronger shape, taller in front, the band has been given teeth, where the drum meets the tower thickened, screw bosses enlarge to allow for the lip that the cover now tucks into flush. The cover has been given a rail the entire diameter for the shells to ride instead of just having a shell adjuster on the previous version, that let me run the ribs out to the edge. The part of the cover that tucked into the drum in the original design run deeper into the drum with this design (not talking about the edge of the cover that is now tucked in as well), cover will only go on the right way. All of this plays together for a super strong design. Before I did all this I was sure the drum could take a beating or be dropped. Now you can drop it and stomp the hell out of it if you want. I doubted before it would stand up to the "run it over test" but now I think it has a good chance. I do plan on running one over too by the way just to see. Competition guys could drop the mag fully loaded repeatedly, so empty is definitely not going to be a problem. I am glad I looked into the 3 inch design before I put the 2 3/4 version out. If I would have just went with the 2 3/4 inch design, you would have them by now, but it wouldn't have looked like it does now. Pursuing the 3 inch design gave me a lot more time to come up with all these feature that has made it go from a strong design to an extra super strong design. I am very glad I didn't rush to market. Wraithmaker felt it was a race and look what it got them. A bad design that they refuse to fess up to and they try to blame the gun and offer a service to try and get more money. When my drum is released you will all know that it wasn't the gun causing the WM problems. It was their lack of knowing the different tolerances allowed by Izhmash when building the saigas. Izhmash designed their mags with those differences in mind and they don't have a problem, the same with my drum. WM designed their drum using only one saiga-12 for fit and function tests thinking that saiga-12s had the same tight specs as an ar or something (still a bad idea to only test in one even if they was making it for a AR). That among a few other things is what is causing their problems. I really didn't want to point this out but I have had a lot of people asking me if they would need to modify their gun like with the WM drum. WM's rushed to market bad design as caused people to be skeptical about my design and I just wanted to get it out in the open. My drum was designed by a saiga lover that didn't rush it to market just to get sales. I took my time with this to try and make the best product possible. I was open and honest the whole way through. I made this drum for us and our saigas. Not for my pocket. Being able to sell them is just a bonus. I can't wait to start shipping these out to everyone here. You will be very pleased and impressed I'm sure. And when they do start shipping, I will not disappear from the forum either. I love this place and will continue to come here unlike ALL the others aftermarket mag makers. Also to try and show my appreciation I offered the discounted price first because I know that probably 80% or more of the first run will go to members here. I wanted you guys to get the good deal. I didn't want you to buy them at full price just to find out that a few months later your drum wasn't worth what you paid for it anymore. I seriously doubt I will ever sell them as cheap as $165 again, even to dealers or with quantity discounts. That will keep your drums from dropping in value like the agp mags did. A dealer can't sell them for less than $165 if he is paying more than $165 for them. I'm doing this for you just as much as I'm doing it for me. I didn't have to offer the special price but wanted to say thanks and show some love. :super:

I Love You Mike . I mean .?. Uuuuh. Wazup Man (Humor) . Fantastic . Destiny can't be stopped.

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Mike,

 

I'm going with scoutjoe Sunday to test your drum. I'll post back the results with as many different ammo types as we can come up with. I anticipate LOADS of fun with minimal worry.

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The drum test Sunday went VERY well. We shot the following ammo with NO trouble.

WOLF 00 Power Buck, Estate heavy field, Federal Premium max buck, Remington target, Remington MAG 4, Win super X, Win Super Speed, Fed heavy field, Fed Upland, Speer Lawman HP Slug.

 

I think I named them all.

 

Some of the ammo we fired is no longer manufactured, but we wanted the widest variety of ammo possible.

 

NO magazine-related malfunctions at full spring tension.

We even fired and rotated the gun through 360 degrees with no trouble.

 

The magazine fit and functioned beautifully in 4 different Saiga-12s.

 

The drum does not look or function like a prototype. It works beautifully.

 

Thanks Mike.

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The drum test Sunday went VERY well. We shot the following ammo with NO trouble.

WOLF 00 Power Buck, Estate heavy field, Federal Premium max buck, Remington target, Remington MAG 4, Win super X, Win Super Speed, Fed heavy field, Fed Upland, Speer Lawman HP Slug.

 

I think I named them all.

 

Some of the ammo we fired is no longer manufactured, but we wanted the widest variety of ammo possible.

 

NO magazine-related malfunctions at full spring tension.

We even fired and rotated the gun through 360 degrees with no trouble.

 

The magazine fit and functioned beautifully in 4 different Saiga-12s.

 

The drum does not look or function like a prototype. It works beautifully.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

You shot Wolf 00buck thru the drum?.. And they fit/functioned?

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Update on status???

 

I paid in full 2 months ago.

 

You want it right, or do you want it now? Quality takes time. Especially with a new product. Mike is doing his best to make this thing as good as it gets. He won't send out a half-assed product and then tell you it's your problem when it doesn't work.

 

Please don't bug Mike. Wait for the quality. It'll be worth it. If you want out, I'm sure there are MANY who will give you your money and take your place in line.

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Well then since patriot said a little bout it here's some eye candy

 

post-1914-1207170499_thumb.jpg

My EAA basement conversion loved the NLFD :angel:

 

post-1914-1207170548_thumb.jpg

 

And since Patriot was one of the guys who drove a real vehicle it became a gun and ammo rack :)

 

Pointer, we didn't have any ammo problems with the drum. My factory EAA camo gun was acting up in the one video but I was shooting birdshot on setting one. Also its more of a safe queen and is not worn in like my converted gun.

 

I shot primarily Remington Sportsmans 2 3/4" load a mixture of 7 1/2 and 8 shot. In the excitement I forgot my "buck and slugs" box, but Patriot had a wide selection.

 

post-1914-1207175173_thumb.jpg

 

post-1914-1207175219_thumb.jpg

 

post-1914-1207175236_thumb.jpg

Edited by scoutjoe
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Joe,Patriot,thanks for posting some pics.I had a great time.

 

I didn't bring any high brass stuff to the shoot Sunday,but had previously tested Winchester 00/000 buck/slugs,Rem. 00 buck/slugs,Federal 00 buck/slugs,and Estate/Independence/Rem./Winchester game loads.Everything cycled flawlessly. :up:

 

Thanks,Mike!.

Edited by Telly458
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Thanks for the range report. :super:

 

'muther, 2 months? :lolol: I paid 6 months ago, they will ship very soon. When they ship, they ship.

 

Let me ask you all this. Have you ever had to wait this long for any other product that you already paid for?????

 

Mike seems like a nice guy, but the reality is, I don't know him. If he has production problems, family emergency, whatever and doesn't produce, we are all ass out. So excuse my concern. Guess next time I order from any of the million places I order from and they charge my card and it doesn't come I should just "chill" instead of inquiring..... :rolleyes:

 

The other issue is Mike has not responded to any of my emails and hasn't responded here.

 

I am willing to risk my money on him and a new product, but for something close to $200 dollars I don't believe some simple communication is out of the question.

Edited by badmuther
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Thanks for the range report. :super:

 

'muther, 2 months? :lolol: I paid 6 months ago, they will ship very soon. When they ship, they ship.

 

Let me ask you all this. Have you ever had to wait this long for any other product that you already paid for?????

 

Mike seems like a nice guy, but the reality is, I don't know him. If he has production problems, family emergency, whatever and doesn't produce, we are all ass out. So excuse my concern. Guess next time I order from any of the million places I order from and they charge my card and it doesn't come I should just "chill" instead of inquiring..... :rolleyes:

 

The other issue is Mike has not responded to any of my emails and hasn't responded here.

 

I am willing to risk my money on him and a new product, but for something close to $200 dollars I don't believe some simple communication is out of the question.

 

Feel free to have Mike transfer your order to me if you don't want it; I'm perfectly fine with waiting for one. Everything you're complaining about is things you knew you might have to deal with ahead of time, and Mike has explained to everyone what the communication situation is.

Edited by GLOCKsK
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If you are tired of waiting, then you should get a non-functioning Wraithmaker that is available now!

 

You can communicate with Alliance that has such a great reputation for customer service! Just check out how awesome your alternative is in this thread:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23155

 

Oh, and by the way, it is over $300 bucks to order and wait from them!

 

If you want a 20 Round Drum that works, you only have one choice... and you are going to have to wait for it. If you want a paperweight/doorstop, then plop down almost twice what MDArms is charging and stop complaining.

 

Nobody is forcing you to wait. If you don't want it, I guarantee that there is a waiting list to take your place in line!

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Let me ask you all this. Have you ever had to wait this long for any other product that you already paid for?????[i/]

 

Mike seems like a nice guy, but the reality is, I don't know him. If he has production problems, family emergency, whatever and doesn't produce, we are all ass out. So excuse my concern. Guess next time I order from any of the million places I order from and they charge my card and it doesn't come I should just "chill" instead of inquiring..... :rolleyes:

 

The other issue is Mike has not responded to any of my emails and hasn't responded here.

 

I am willing to risk my money on him and a new product, but for something close to $200 dollars I don't believe some simple communication is out of the question.

 

Yes I've had to wait over 6 months for items I've paid for (i.e. custom made, or one offs, or new production items).

 

If a customer is a PITA (asks dumb questions, ask the same question again and again, doesn't read the FAQ, is just a annoying twit), then they will end up in the customer service no-mans land. Not saying this is what happened in your case ;)

 

This does NOT seem like the infamouse Nick mag-scam. Mike has a real product. Many people have seen and tested it. So relax, or face the fact that everything in life is a risk and you shouldn't spend the money if you can't affotd to lose it.

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Oh and by the way, I have waited months for things that I have paid for... If you want custom gunwork of most sorts, custom ordered parts/furniture/ammo, then you have to wait for it! Also, there are waiting lists for all kinds of firearms right now including, Vector Uzi's, Saiga 12's, DPMS AR's... not to mention the preorders for the Steyr AUG copies, the Masada (now Bushmaster) and many more! Even optics have a waiting list (Falcon Optics from SniperCentral)!

 

They all take preorders with deposits!

 

This is par for the course! If you want to risk waiting until after the November election to purchase any of the above listed, then it is a risk! If you want a place in line... IT COSTS MONEY! You may save a few bucks by not getting on the list, but you risk waiting years instead of months (as others will continue to preorder), and sometimes they may fall under a future ban (I am not implying anything on the drums, but just "black guns" and "High Caps" in general)!

 

When was the last time you bought something custom ordered and didn't have to pay for it up front without a contract guaranteeing you are obligated to pay for it? I don't know of too many custom shops that trust some guy walking in off the street saying, "I want a custom _____ with this, that and the other thing" and the shop just builds it out and hopes he will come back and buy it!

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OPEN OFFER:

 

I will take over for ANYONE who does not want to wait for Mike's drum. Just PM me and we can work it out. No you won't make any money from me. You will break exactly even. If you are going to be a PITA, don't waste my time. I believe in Mike's product. I have witnessed prototype testing. It is real. It WORKS.

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I have a Saiga build that I have waited for one year on between the parts and the build itself, all pre-paid. I have a custom 1911 that has been totally pre-paid and I hope to get it about the time I get my drums. PLEASE sell me your drum for what you paid for it. I'll give you the money AND my thanks. :)

1911

Edited by 1911
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The members are circling........

 

If I were you I'd cut my losses, give up your drum to someone that is more patient and knowledgeable than yourself.

Trust me, it will save you a whole lot of the grief that is fixing to come your way...........................................

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Update on status???

 

I paid in full 2 months ago.

 

Patience they'll be there when they're ready. I placed my order in August 07, 2 months is laughably nothing.

 

At no time since then did Mike give a hard and firm ETA and he has always sent out emails and made posts explaining what was going and the cause of the delays.

 

 

Let me ask you all this. Have you ever had to wait this long for any other product that you already paid for?????

 

Mike seems like a nice guy, but the reality is, I don't know him. If he has production problems, family emergency, whatever and doesn't produce, we are all ass out. So excuse my concern. Guess next time I order from any of the million places I order from and they charge my card and it doesn't come I should just "chill" instead of inquiring..... :rolleyes:

 

The other issue is Mike has not responded to any of my emails and hasn't responded here.

 

I am willing to risk my money on him and a new product, but for something close to $200 dollars I don't believe some simple communication is out of the question.

 

His internet was out he even said so if you bothered to read the posts here.

 

Also you take your risks when ever you pre-order anything you should have accepted that before you placed the order. You pre-ordered it you are paying for this order to be made.

 

If you don't want your drum I'm sure there are plenty of people out there willing to fork over the 160 to 200 for your drum in a heart beat.

 

Just wait and be quiet about it. Mike will let us know what is going on when he can.

 

Cobra, Juggs, Tony, Bob and many others have already vouched for the drum. Meaning they've seen it and used it. It really does exist. All we have to do now is just wait for it to be produced and ship.

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