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My Izhmash Saiga and AGP mags


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Hello all,

 

I'm pretty new to the forums, but I've been lurking and checking out the hot topics such as Mike's 20-rounders (I'm in love :wub: ), and thusly i know for a fact I'm not going to be covering any new ground here. I just thought I'd let everyone in on my plans thus far for my Saiga.

 

I recently purchased my Izhmash Armory Saiga-12 from a buddy whom had had it sent to Tony for a bit of work, namely an AK-syle short stock, shortened barrel, pistol grip and trigger assembly. Being that Tony stands by his excellent work, I'm almost certain the gas port has already been bored since the barrel is now 18". I also dropped in a recoil buffer and added a vanilla 3-point sling and FSE pad for effect, and since I already had a bunch of AGP 10-rounders on hand from a group buy I participated in beforehand, anticipating future ownership of a Saiga. Bottom line, I love my shotgun and it's by far the coolest toy in my house.

 

The gun in question:

http://be0f.com/coc/saiga-sideflash.jpg

 

My inaugural voyage was soured a bit by the fact that i was not smart enough to check the gas setting, which was on #2. My shoulder took the brunt of this punishment, having fired about two dozen slugs without the FSE pad and being all skin and bones, I had a bruise on my shoulder the size of Manhattan for a week. My biggest problem, however, was the inability for the AGP 10-rounder to cycle. Surprise! Their follower angle, along with the rest of their US design, is better suited for the US-made Saigas. The stock 5-rounder included with the gun ate everything no problem, so I knew the problem lied with the AGP mags.

 

I did a little WECSOG'ing of my own on one of the 10-rounders' aluminum feed clips I had kept as replacements once we received the new steel feed clips from the first group purchase, and went for another range trip only to find the same disappointing results; so I got serious and ditched the aluminum clip. I ordered some Gunslick graphite lube and did a little bit more intensive mag tuning this time, greasing up the follower guides on the inside of the magazine body as well as the follower leads themselves, however I did not what you folks like to call "remanufacture" the followers in any way; I didn't take any material off the leads.

 

I take my gun out for round 3 on the range, with a hearty assortment of slugs, buck, and target loads, 2 3/4" and 3" alike at my disposal. To my spectacular disappointment, neither the treatment nor the flavor of shell I used changed the problem I had been having since the beginning; using the AGP 10-rounders causes a crazy FTF that damages the following round; not to the point of uselessness, but to the point where you'd be better off tossing it in the trash than screwing up your receiver. Still, I went ahead and shot the rounds that had a nasty gouge in them from what I'm certain was either the bolt or the bottom of the barrel digging into the side of the hull and brass.

 

I happened to find this little example in my range bag when i returned home:

http://be0f.com/coc/damagedshell.jpg

 

My crummy camerawork doesn't tell all; the extractor has bitten a healthy chunk out of the back of the rim, and there is a gouge that goes from about a 1/2" from the front of the hull all the way down to where you see the brass has been cracked, which was actually from the discharge itself; before I fired that round, and many like it, it had a nasty scratch down that very line that is now cracked.

 

Now, I know I darn well shouldn't be putting shells that are that messed up back in the gun and shooting them, and I sure as hell wouldn't want a 12 ga. kB in my face, but hey, I did it for SCIENCE! :chris: And so far, none of those shells has FTE'ed or done anything worse than look ugly.

 

A friend of mine whom had allowed me to test-fire his converted Saiga a few months back (consequently, also hook me on Saiga-12s for LIFE) took notice of my dilemna and offered to have a look-see at the gun and mags to try to fix the problem. He had actually done a little bit of Dremel work on the receiver to get his to feed and function correctly with the AGP 10-rounders, something i am not totally ready to do at this point as I would rather tinker past the point of no return with the $40 magazines than my $750 gun. He also tuned the mags in every aspect previously mentioned, including some grinding on the followers. I personally bore witness to that gun eating every kind of shell we through at it, ten at a time, save for those little Aguila mini-slugs. So I know it's possible, I just don't want the worst case scenario to happen where work is done on the mags, and the thing is still choking on every shell ever manufactured.

 

I have 3 more AGP mags coming from a 3rd and final group buy, so I'm pretty much stuck in this creek whether i like it or not. worst comes to worst, I can sell the mags and buy one or two of Mike's 20-rounders :D but hopefully I'll have the option of using stick or drum mags. I've already given my gun away to my converted Saiga-toting buddy whom I assume has already begun the gruesome task of attempting to make the mags feed the coveted 3" slug. I can order more followers from AGP for $12 each if I have to, just in case. What I wanted to know is, would there be any better way to go about tackling this problem? Does AGP possibly offer a stronger-weight magazine spring that might be the answer to all my troubles?

 

*edit*I should probably add that the 10-rounders would feed a couple of rounds at a time for skeeting purposes no problem, but the more I stuffed in there the more likely it was to FTF. Anything more than 5 shells gauranteed almost a 100% FTF rate.

 

Comment, suggest, discuss, flame and debate. :)

Edited by Coc
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The 2 AGP 10 rounders I ordered last week should be to my door today or tomorrow. I wish I had read more about them prior to ordering. As much as I like the new Saiga, I'm apprehensive about these mags. It sounds like these AGP mags should come with a warning that says "MAY NOT WORK"

 

Sort of goes against the whole point of using a gun. Hey Mr. Grizzly Bear or Mr. Meth Addict Assailant, if my gun doesn't feed you just hold on a second until I can get it to chamber a round.

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Guys, don't be spooked by some whiny bitches complaining about the AGP mags. Most work out of the box, and some may need relatively minor tweaking. Even the stock Russian eight rounders need an occasional adjustment.

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Mine worked flawlessly with only the same normal clean,polish,dry lube that I give all mags before use. The only thing that was even slightly dissapointing is that my Barnul steel hulls only feed from the top position. Big deal-that is the only place I use them at this time due to my small on hand supply. I think they will work fine in any position when several hundred rounds have broken in the mags.

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One option would be to check in with the wraithmaker folks. I believe they offer to tell you what to tweak on your shotgun if you want to tackle it yourself, or to do the work for $50 bucks + shipping. If you check out my thread you'll see that I'm quickly becoming a believer it their service. I was pretty skeptical at first.

 

Here is my disclaimer. My shotty was running pretty well to start with. very rare to have any failures when I stuck with my favorite loads (Federal 1 1/8 oz value packs, and some Remington 1 1/4 oz running pretty fast). This even tho I don't clean my shotgun very often.

 

But they worked it over, and afterward it now works with a shell it used to choke on ~10 pct of the time. (PMC 1 1/8 field loads) and with a load that I thought would give problems (1 oz estate feild loads). In fact, a guy at the range bump fired my shotty/drum combo with those shells, but couldn't get the range shotty/5 round mag to bump fire. I think a shotgun fired from the hip with reliability is the epitome of reliability. I know we are talking gas shotguns, but my experience is hip shooting, or weak shouldering can cause feeding failures.

 

I don't want to seem like a commercial for them, but I'll pass on something that they told me. Mike said that he never knows how much time he'll spend on a shotgun, each one is different and he just spends the amount of time that the gun needs (so ETA's can be off). Also, they said that problems are more likely with higher cap mags as they require more spring pressure to feed a longer string of shells. This gives more friction on the underside of the bolt. By itself it might be ok, but if the gun/mag has other small issues the combination can lead to failures.

 

So my .02

 

Will your friend allow you to mix and match? Try his "tuned" mags in his gun. Try your mags (all of them) in his shotgun?

 

Call Alliance and ask what you should tweak on the gun, or send it to them if you don't want to do it. Send your mags and they'll tune the gun to them?

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Guys, don't be spooked by some whiny bitches complaining about the AGP mags. Most work out of the box, and some may need relatively minor tweaking. Even the stock Russian eight rounders need an occasional adjustment.

 

Thanks for the label, but I'm not here to bitch about AGP mags not working, I think enough people have done that before me. I'm here to figure out what work needs to be done on the mags to get them to function in my Russian Saiga, namely full loads of slugs so hopefully one day I can shoot IDPA/3gun matches. Apparently everyone is supposed to be ok with their shotguns having Type 4 failures after every shot for the first few hundred rounds, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

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Guys, don't be spooked by some whiny bitches complaining about the AGP mags. Most work out of the box, and some may need relatively minor tweaking. Even the stock Russian eight rounders need an occasional adjustment.

 

Thanks for the label, but I'm not here to bitch about AGP mags not working, I think enough people have done that before me. I'm here to figure out what work needs to be done on the mags to get them to function in my Russian Saiga, namely full loads of slugs so hopefully one day I can shoot IDPA/3gun matches. Apparently everyone is supposed to be ok with their shotguns having Type 4 failures after every shot for the first few hundred rounds, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

 

That label is not directed at you but some of the other longer term folks around here who are big nay-sayers about the mags and may lead others to form less than accurate opinions about them. Apologies if it was interpreted otherwise.

Edited by tritium
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First thing..did you try it without the buffer?

That's actually one of the first things on our list of stuff to try. I hypothesized that the action of the bolt slamming back home from hitting the buffer was too quick a motion to allow time for the mag to feed the next shell. However, hopefully this isn't our ONLY option; despite the platform being built to handle such stresses, I sure don't want to have to deal with hot metal on metal trunion-wrenching action being delivered to my shoulder several hundred times a year.

 

Does firing slugs through a full choke impact feeding and ejecting in any way? I know that after running a phosphor bore brush through the gun several times after about 100 target loads and 35 slugs left me nearly enough lead fouling to measure in teaspoon increments.

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Removing the buffer definitely helped me get my gun running last spring. Heavy stuff wouldn't cycle, lighter stuff was fine. I do think the buffer (mine was a thick black jack buffer) sped the bolt forward when it was slammed with heavy shells .... Definitely give that a try.

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Guys, don't be spooked by some whiny bitches complaining about the AGP mags. Most work out of the box, and some may need relatively minor tweaking. Even the stock Russian eight rounders need an occasional adjustment.

 

Thanks for the label, but I'm not here to bitch about AGP mags not working, I think enough people have done that before me. I'm here to figure out what work needs to be done on the mags to get them to function in my Russian Saiga, namely full loads of slugs so hopefully one day I can shoot IDPA/3gun matches. Apparently everyone is supposed to be ok with their shotguns having Type 4 failures after every shot for the first few hundred rounds, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

 

That label is not directed at you but some of the other longer term folks around here who are big nay-sayers about the mags and may lead others to form less than accurate opinions about them. Apologies if it was interpreted otherwise.

 

I have been a member for a while. I wish I had more time to post on this forum but I've been covered up at work. In fact, I haven't been to the range in 3 months. I don't have time to mess with my S12 either. I'll tell you that I don't doubt for a second that these AGP mags work for 90% of the S12 shotguns out there. That would be a damn good percentage due to sloppy manufacturing tolerences in the gun gun itself. I will say that for a certain portion of the Saiga owners here, these mags have had some issues feeding to thier guns. In my experience, this has had nothing to do with MY shotgun and everything to do with the mags having a a lateral compressive force slowing the feed at the top of the mag. Granted, I have not sent the mags back to AGP as I haven't had the time to even think about it lately. The fact remains that this same issue has been repeated numerous times by Saiga/AGP owners in the past and no magic bullet fix has been offered. If it has it has been vieled by 300 line rants with "just run some emory clothe on the inside and it will work fine" posts. Anyway, I was willing to buld my own stick mags from scratch before the AGP mags was introduced. I am VERY happy to have them and plan on buying more. I am OK with slightly less than perfection. I feel that AGP saved the first 99% of the work I felt that was ahead of me in 2005. I maintain, BUY THEM. They are magnificent magazines. I think that if you are one of the less than 10% that recieves magazines exhibiting the tight throat that slows vertical lift of the shell column, call AGP and they will correct the issue. Or sit on your larels and bitch,...like me.

 

---Catter

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I purchased seven AGP 10-round mags for competition and 2-3 showed the "ninth round stoppage" and FTF's due to the upper internal mag walls were tight tolerance. A dozen or so strokes with a mill file on the inside of the mags cured each one of their issues. A couple of mags only held nine rounds and after shoving down hard on the ninth round the mags now hold ten each. By the time it would take me to box the mags and ship back to AGP my mags were working 100%. Are these or any other magazines perfect? No, but they do IMHO place the Saiga-12 in a higher class (especially in competitions).

If you want to read about magazine problems, just look on the AR-15 forums and you will go blind reading about which followers are better with whatever the magazine-of-the-month is.

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What Ron Said, I had 1911 mags that fell out of my gun, would not lock the bolt back, I have a Beretta 92 mag that will not lock the slide back after the last round is fired, I have a number of AR mags that will not seat properly. Don't even start me on Galil mags for the .223 Saiga or the Promag AK 223 mags that does not work at all at least in my S-223.

 

All 10 of my AGP mags work great I have had no trouble this year with them.

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I've had to "massage" about 1 in 4 factory mags, both the S-12 and S-.410 to get propper function -- as the factory mags instruction manual says "file for most perfect fit".

 

The AGP is less error prone than the factory mag. If you don't want to fuck with getting the damn thing to work-- DON'T BUY A RUSSIAN GUN. Spend $1500 and go AR-15,

just remember-if you are too busy/lazy to fuck with getting mags to work, you are too busy/lazy to properly clean an AR and it will jam on you.

Then you can take it to a gunsmith and pay him $$$$ to clean it for you.

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Well, I think some mags work in 95% of the guns.

 

I haven't heard anyone have a problem with factory 5 or 8 round mags in a long time, so apparently you can get mags that run the gun with all of it's variances. Of course, the factory mags are pushing a shorter column of shells.

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Hello all,

 

I'm pretty new to the forums, but I've been lurking and checking out the hot topics such as Mike's 20-rounders (I'm in love :wub: ), and thusly i know for a fact I'm not going to be covering any new ground here. I just thought I'd let everyone in on my plans thus far for my Saiga.

 

I recently purchased my Izhmash Armory Saiga-12 from a buddy whom had had it sent to Tony for a bit of work, namely an AK-syle short stock, shortened barrel, pistol grip and trigger assembly. Being that Tony stands by his excellent work, I'm almost certain the gas port has already been bored since the barrel is now 18". I also dropped in a recoil buffer and added a vanilla 3-point sling and FSE pad for effect, and since I already had a bunch of AGP 10-rounders on hand from a group buy I participated in beforehand, anticipating future ownership of a Saiga. Bottom line, I love my shotgun and it's by far the coolest toy in my house.

 

The gun in question:

http://be0f.com/coc/saiga-sideflash.jpg

 

My inaugural voyage was soured a bit by the fact that i was not smart enough to check the gas setting, which was on #2. My shoulder took the brunt of this punishment, having fired about two dozen slugs without the FSE pad and being all skin and bones, I had a bruise on my shoulder the size of Manhattan for a week. My biggest problem, however, was the inability for the AGP 10-rounder to cycle. Surprise! Their follower angle, along with the rest of their US design, is better suited for the US-made Saigas. The stock 5-rounder included with the gun ate everything no problem, so I knew the problem lied with the AGP mags.

 

I did a little WECSOG'ing of my own on one of the 10-rounders' aluminum feed clips I had kept as replacements once we received the new steel feed clips from the first group purchase, and went for another range trip only to find the same disappointing results; so I got serious and ditched the aluminum clip. I ordered some Gunslick graphite lube and did a little bit more intensive mag tuning this time, greasing up the follower guides on the inside of the magazine body as well as the follower leads themselves, however I did not what you folks like to call "remanufacture" the followers in any way; I didn't take any material off the leads.

 

I take my gun out for round 3 on the range, with a hearty assortment of slugs, buck, and target loads, 2 3/4" and 3" alike at my disposal. To my spectacular disappointment, neither the treatment nor the flavor of shell I used changed the problem I had been having since the beginning; using the AGP 10-rounders causes a crazy FTF that damages the following round; not to the point of uselessness, but to the point where you'd be better off tossing it in the trash than screwing up your receiver. Still, I went ahead and shot the rounds that had a nasty gouge in them from what I'm certain was either the bolt or the bottom of the barrel digging into the side of the hull and brass.

 

I happened to find this little example in my range bag when i returned home:

http://be0f.com/coc/damagedshell.jpg

 

My crummy camerawork doesn't tell all; the extractor has bitten a healthy chunk out of the back of the rim, and there is a gouge that goes from about a 1/2" from the front of the hull all the way down to where you see the brass has been cracked, which was actually from the discharge itself; before I fired that round, and many like it, it had a nasty scratch down that very line that is now cracked.

 

Now, I know I darn well shouldn't be putting shells that are that messed up back in the gun and shooting them, and I sure as hell wouldn't want a 12 ga. kB in my face, but hey, I did it for SCIENCE! :chris: And so far, none of those shells has FTE'ed or done anything worse than look ugly.

 

A friend of mine whom had allowed me to test-fire his converted Saiga a few months back (consequently, also hook me on Saiga-12s for LIFE) took notice of my dilemna and offered to have a look-see at the gun and mags to try to fix the problem. He had actually done a little bit of Dremel work on the receiver to get his to feed and function correctly with the AGP 10-rounders, something i am not totally ready to do at this point as I would rather tinker past the point of no return with the $40 magazines than my $750 gun. He also tuned the mags in every aspect previously mentioned, including some grinding on the followers. I personally bore witness to that gun eating every kind of shell we through at it, ten at a time, save for those little Aguila mini-slugs. So I know it's possible, I just don't want the worst case scenario to happen where work is done on the mags, and the thing is still choking on every shell ever manufactured.

 

I have 3 more AGP mags coming from a 3rd and final group buy, so I'm pretty much stuck in this creek whether i like it or not. worst comes to worst, I can sell the mags and buy one or two of Mike's 20-rounders :D but hopefully I'll have the option of using stick or drum mags. I've already given my gun away to my converted Saiga-toting buddy whom I assume has already begun the gruesome task of attempting to make the mags feed the coveted 3" slug. I can order more followers from AGP for $12 each if I have to, just in case. What I wanted to know is, would there be any better way to go about tackling this problem? Does AGP possibly offer a stronger-weight magazine spring that might be the answer to all my troubles?

 

*edit*I should probably add that the 10-rounders would feed a couple of rounds at a time for skeeting purposes no problem, but the more I stuffed in there the more likely it was to FTF. Anything more than 5 shells gauranteed almost a 100% FTF rate.

 

Comment, suggest, discuss, flame and debate. :)

 

Mike Sr. here from Alliance Machine

Keep your AGP it's not the problem the saiga is and it almost seems like these things are like snow flakes no two the same . The problem lies in the saiga just remember with increased spring presure you get more drag shells differ and you need to look in several areas feed ramp,hood and extractors as well as the blot and you will solve your problems. We here at Alliance rework these things and they run great. I finished one today that wouldn't fire but one at a time of any kind and now you can fire any thing i put in it so far weather in a five or ten round or even if we use or wraithmaker twenty round drum they crank when we get done with them. So look inside have patience go slow.

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Well, I think some mags work in 95% of the guns.

 

I haven't heard anyone have a problem with factory 5 or 8 round mags in a long time, so apparently you can get mags that run the gun with all of it's variances. Of course, the factory mags are pushing a shorter column of shells.

 

Kmore

Mike Sr. here alliance Machine how is that saiga shooting? should be getting better by the day i have had some real interesting ones here lately love the challenge we are offering saiga -12 ga. here now limited as we have the supply's we make them like you want them. Hope you enjoy your sagia as much as i do mine i and coming up on about 8,000 rounds with mine. And my wraithmaker drum i use mine to test every saiga i work on and my drum looks like new.

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I posted this before in the last "AGP BITCH THREAD" I feel led to post it here AGAIN!

 

 

Complaining here about AGP is as ignorant as Cindy Sheehan blaming pres. Bush for the death of her son. If you have a gripe about mags. , take it up with AGP. Maybe Cindy will take up her gripes with scumbags who make IED's. Mags aside, above all things this forum is a community, a family if you will.we try and look out for the best interest of the saiga shooting community. AGP mags are hands down, one of the best things to come along for our community in years. I could find as many things wrong with S12's in general If I wanted to

cry like a girl about every little thing thats wrong or have/could gone wrong with this type of firearm as well. Fact is is AGP's are frickin' sweet! if using some dry lube or turning a few screws. or if you find a little sandpaper to coarse for you fingers,perhaps you should find a different hobby than shooting. I Know I have had to work on MANY of my firearms to get things just "right". I do not blame Saiga, Armalite, or Remington for the work that I needed/wanted to do. If you cant fix your Corvette, take it to a certified mechanic. I am sure there are many parts you could get for you car that may need a "Little tweaking"for them to be just right. If you cant fix your firearm, take it to a gunsmith. Thank God Saigas are based on the AK and are easy to work on, and work 99% of the time,even when everything ain't perfect. Nothing too scientific here! Allot of people need to tweak their G2 triggers to get them "just right" but I don't hear them ripping on Tapco. same could be said for AGP!

 

Edit to add: I have had to do a little work on EVERY polly mag for every gun I own to get them how I want them.... but then again, I'm pretty picky about how I like my stuff to be.

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I posted this before in the last "AGP BITCH THREAD" I feel led to post it here AGAIN!

 

 

Complaining here about AGP is as ignorant as Cindy Sheehan blaming pres. Bush for the death of her son. If you have a gripe about mags. , take it up with AGP. Maybe Cindy will take up her gripes with scumbags who make IED's. Mags aside, above all things this forum is a community, a family if you will.we try and look out for the best interest of the saiga shooting community. AGP mags are hands down, one of the best things to come along for our community in years. I could find as many things wrong with S12's in general If I wanted to

cry like a girl about every little thing thats wrong or have/could gone wrong with this type of firearm as well. Fact is is AGP's are frickin' sweet! if using some dry lube or turning a few screws. or if you find a little sandpaper to coarse for you fingers,perhaps you should find a different hobby than shooting. I Know I have had to work on MANY of my firearms to get things just "right". I do not blame Saiga, Armalite, or Remington for the work that I needed/wanted to do. If you cant fix your Corvette, take it to a certified mechanic. I am sure there are many parts you could get for you car that may need a "Little tweaking"for them to be just right. If you cant fix your firearm, take it to a gunsmith. Thank God Saigas are based on the AK and are easy to work on, and work 99% of the time,even when everything ain't perfect. Nothing too scientific here! Allot of people need to tweak their G2 triggers to get them "just right" but I don't hear them ripping on Tapco. same could be said for AGP!

 

Edit to add: I have had to do a little work on EVERY polly mag for every gun I own to get them how I want them.... but then again, I'm pretty picky about how I like my stuff to be.

 

I think you're misunderstanding the OP. I am aware that many other people are having great success with their guns, but I'm not about to take some of these crazy suggestions to heart, sell my gun and mags and buy a $1500 AR that coughs on a few grains of sand and anything less than mil-spec $80 mags.

 

All I came here to find out is what I can do to make the AGP mags work with my Russian gun. They've obviously proven their success if everyone is still constantly buying them up off gunbroker and such, so all I need to do is get the follower "remanufacturing" right the first time and I should have a handful of working mags, plus no additional expenditures ordering replacement followers if I screw up. The gun works in every other aspect, so it's just something that needs a little of my attention. The only heartbreak was that the work done thus far wasn't enough, so now it's time to roll the ol' sleeves up.

 

Thanks for the advice Mike. :smoke: So far the receiver looks clean; there's no obvious extreme wear on the extractor, barrel or bore, or any of the trigger parts.

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Sorry if I took anything out of context. There are un needed negative remarks DAILY about AGP.

 

It's just getting old.. Your new here, so you didn't know.

 

Anyhow, Welcome aboard

 

Some days, it's not easy being purple. I hope nothing was taken as a personal attack.

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There's already PLENTY of information posted here about how to tweak everything from AGP mags to factory mags to removing the gas block and adding/ enlarging the ports on the shotgun. Just about anything that any of these new companies want to charge people to do on their guns has also been covered in these pages. Do a little research before posting threads asking such questions. It's all right here. The search tool is your friend just as the Tech Section is. That's what it's for. For Christ's sake, Kevin himself even posted some key info about this very subject just a couple of friggin days ago. :rolleyes:

It does get VERY old having to come here each day and see an identical thread posted, especially one that hints at one of our best manufacturers and contributors being not up to par.

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There's already PLENTY of information posted here about how to tweak everything from AGP mags to factory mags to removing the gas block and adding/ enlarging the ports on the shotgun. Just about anything that any of these new companies want to charge people to do on their guns has also been covered in these pages. Do a little research before posting threads asking such questions. It's all right here. The search tool is your friend just as the Tech Section is. That's what it's for. For Christ's sake, Kevin himself even posted some key info about this very subject just a couple of friggin days ago. :rolleyes:

It does get VERY old having to come here each day and see an identical thread posted, especially one that hints at one of our best manufacturers and contributors being not up to par.

 

I had a good spot of trouble getting that search tool to work correctly, and I'm by no means a 'internet computer machine' newb. I did my share of lurking and only found one or two recent AGP threads; last time I came, there were about the same number of AGP threads. It seemed to me the problems were far and few, and perhaps limited to a case-by-case basis. Hence, the OP describes in minor detail the problems I've been having. My apologies if I came off negative against AGP, they've produced a great product and its tough to make every variant of an autoloading shotgun with six parts work the same way, that's like getting a square block through a round hole. My only fear is doing extensive or irreversible work to a gun or its parts only to render it useless or worse off than when I started. I figured that was a legitamate concern with something that has the innate ability to blow up in your face.

 

I don't take anything across the internet personally though, it's hard when everyone out there knows it's so easy to hate. :haha:

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My only problem is with assholes that keep whining about the same damn thing over and over again, when the answers are here for anyone to find. If you can't be bothered to read the old posts and look for the facts. take you'r whiny ass somewhere else. The world of adults is getting tired of you. We won't change your diaper, and we don't give a good rats ass. If you want to know how something can be made to work the way you want it to, many talented people will help you here. Just QUIT whining , and grow up. If you quote the same old whiney post one more time I will puke on you.

 

 

( I have censored myself and not written the rest of this post. After raising 5 of my own children I am not going to raise any more, especially here.)

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I have also experienced problems with my AGP mags, mostly due to the lateral compression. Rounds "sticking" in the mag as the gun stripped one off, and other nasty cycling issues. Aside from sanding, one of the things that helped was removing all of the screws (except the botton two) from the mag. This greatly helped release lateral pressure, and the spring steel feedlips are more than tight enough to keep the mag together and secure at the top (I can't even get the blasted things off!). Though out of my three mags, one is STILL not feeding correctly. I suspect it may be the sping. I'm most likely going to try and see if I can send it off to AGP ARMS for a replacement.

 

I hope that they have worked on/tweaked their mag design to be a bit more usable out of the box. Hopefully, the influx of drum mags on the market now will give them an incentive to drop their prices a bit too!

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There's already PLENTY of information posted here about how to tweak everything from AGP mags to factory mags to removing the gas block and adding/ enlarging the ports on the shotgun. Just about anything that any of these new companies want to charge people to do on their guns has also been covered in these pages. Do a little research before posting threads asking such questions. It's all right here. The search tool is your friend just as the Tech Section is. That's what it's for. For Christ's sake, Kevin himself even posted some key info about this very subject just a couple of friggin days ago. :rolleyes:

It does get VERY old having to come here each day and see an identical thread posted, especially one that hints at one of our best manufacturers and contributors being not up to par.

 

I had a good spot of trouble getting that search tool to work correctly, and I'm by no means a 'internet computer machine' newb. I did my share of lurking and only found one or two recent AGP threads; last time I came, there were about the same number of AGP threads. It seemed to me the problems were far and few, and perhaps limited to a case-by-case basis. Hence, the OP describes in minor detail the problems I've been having. My apologies if I came off negative against AGP, they've produced a great product and its tough to make every variant of an autoloading shotgun with six parts work the same way, that's like getting a square block through a round hole. My only fear is doing extensive or irreversible work to a gun or its parts only to render it useless or worse off than when I started. I figured that was a legitamate concern with something that has the innate ability to blow up in your face.

 

I don't take anything across the internet personally though, it's hard when everyone out there knows it's so easy to hate. :haha:

 

 

 

My only problem is with assholes that keep whining about the same damn thing over and over again, when the answers are here for anyone to find. If you can't be bothered to read the old posts and look for the facts. take you'r whiny ass somewhere else. The world of adults is getting tired of you. We won't change your diaper, and we don't give a good rats ass. If you want to know how something can be made to work the way you want it to, many talented people will help you here. Just QUIT whining , and grow up. If you quote the same old whiney post one more time I will puke on you.

 

 

( I have censored myself and not written the rest of this post. After raising 5 of my own children I am not going to raise any more, especially here.)

 

 

I have also experienced problems with my AGP mags, mostly due to the lateral compression. Rounds "sticking" in the mag as the gun stripped one off, and other nasty cycling issues. Aside from sanding, one of the things that helped was removing all of the screws (except the botton two) from the mag. This greatly helped release lateral pressure, and the spring steel feedlips are more than tight enough to keep the mag together and secure at the top (I can't even get the blasted things off!). Though out of my three mags, one is STILL not feeding correctly. I suspect it may be the sping. I'm most likely going to try and see if I can send it off to AGP ARMS for a replacement.

 

I hope that they have worked on/tweaked their mag design to be a bit more usable out of the box. Hopefully, the influx of drum mags on the market now will give them an incentive to drop their prices a bit too!

 

 

I guess I'm part of the "problem" here, huh? All I have to say is that some have problems with their mags or guns, some don't. That's obvious. That "asshole" comment is misdirected as anyone "complaining" about an issue on this forum is usually assisted, not chastised. This forum and the help I got in the early days got me interested in building my S12, and subsequently, my S223. Something else is going on here. Something deeper. Those that spend so much time helping the newbies or "ignorant" are all of a sudden acting like those power freaks on the FiveSeven forums. Stand for the 1st amendment as you stand for the 2nd. Open forum...continue.

 

I guess I'll get my first "warning" now. I'd wear it with pride.

Edited by Wildcatter
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Your right! some of us are thrilled that there is a US manufacture of 10 rd Saiga 12 mags.

Perhaps it is better to discourage them and help torpedo their business with continued

negative post. Too bad people DON'T speak up when they DON'T have problems (Except you Will :smoke: ).

So, everyone is just soaking up this negative crap.

Believe it or not, things said on this board effects the Saiga market.

IMO you guys who love you AGP as I do are just as guilty as people posting negative comments

if you do not show some support..

 

I WANT AGP TO DO WELL SO I CAN KEEP GETTING US COMPLIANT MAGS!

 

I'm sorry to hear anytime anyone has a problem with a firearm.

but come on people.......

 

Oh well, I can always pay 120 bucks for an izzy 8 rnd. that is non compliant.........

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