Got the pistol carbine bug

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Has anyone got a sub 2000, and if so whadaya think about it?

 

I like the way it tucks away nicely into a laptop bag (or the like) and still offers 40 cal power (about the same as a 10mm pistol through the 16 in bbl). Are there any other sub guns that don't have to have a $200 sbr stamp that make your short list?

[THE_HUNTER 2]

I've got 2 of them and like them alot.Both are in 9mm using Glock mags so I can play with my Glock18 33 round mags in them.Alot you can do with them.Go to www.KTOG.Org and check out the bulletin section.Good info there on these neat little beasts.

[getitat 609]

Hello, buckandaquarterquarterstaff

 

Maybe not what you had in mind, but for like $700 or so I got a sweet 7.62x.39 pistol from Will at Red Jacket Firearms. It's amazingly accurate and recoil is totally manageable (similar to a +P .45 ACP pistol) The firepower potential, range, and relative concealability is staggering.

I think I'm gonna get another Docter red dot and replace the Eotech on it.

 

respectfully posted,

guido2 in Houston

[nalioth 405]

Has anyone got a sub 2000, and if so whadaya think about it?

 

I like the way it tucks away nicely into a laptop bag (or the like) and still offers 40 cal power (about the same as a 10mm pistol through the 16 in bbl). Are there any other sub guns that don't have to have a $200 sbr stamp that make your short list?

Do you have a friend with one? You sound like you are familiar with them. They truly are fine carbines. In Texas, you are quite legal carrying it around folded (no CHL needed, it's not a handgun). They are quickly deployed (with practice) as a loaded pistol magazine can be carried in it while it's folded.

 

Hello, buckandaquarterquarterstaff

 

Maybe not what you had in mind, but for like $700 or so I got a sweet 7.62x.39 pistol from Will at Red Jacket Firearms. It's amazingly accurate and recoil is totally manageable (similar to a +P .45 ACP pistol) The firepower potential, range, and relative concealability is staggering.

I think I'm gonna get another Docter red dot and replace the Eotech on it.

 

respectfully posted,

guido2 in Houston

Have you seen one of these in action, Guido2? They fold up to a 16" long package (with magazine inserted). You can carry them in a paper grocery bag, a laptop bag (as mentioned) and a whole lot of other places you'd never think someone has a carbine.

 

The AK pistol can't compare to the size / carryability of the Kel-Tec Sub 2000, AND it's a pistol, so requires a CHL to carry legally. A folded Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is the same size (if not smaller) than most AK pistols, but unfolds to give you long gun capability.

[horse9640 0]

i bought a 9mm kel-tec sub rifle which accepts glock mags and i love it! Head shots at 25yds on a b-27 target using 115gr winchester fmj ammo is easy. The gun weighs about 4lbs and folds in half, mine is reliable and accurate, what more could you want in a concealable long gun.

 

i also recently bought a kel-tec su16c rifle, but have not shot it yet.

Edited September 12, 2007 by horse9640

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I wanted a Sub2K bad. But the local shop hasn't received any shipments in a long time. So I figured I'd go with the Hi-Point 995 (when money permits) to quench my pistol caliber carbine thirst. But you can't beat the ability to fold the Sub in half!

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm definately putting it on my list of guns to buy in 40 cal. Now I just need to find one. Most online places seem to be out of stock. The only downside is that I might just need to buy a glock pistol to go with it. Definately want the 40, as I think that could take down a deer in a 16 in carbine (not planning on it, but this is a gun that I'll be keeping close at hand, BUG type handiness is all upside).

 

What I really wanted was a carbine in 10mm but you can't seem to find anything anywhere for anything close to reasonable prices. Sure I'd love an MP5 in 10mm, but $$$$, oh my. I suppose I could go the AR route to get a 10mm, but that doesn't fold away nicely like the sub2000. Too bad that Kel tec doesn't make the sub2000 in 10mm to use glock 20 mags (hint hint), it would probably bring back 10mm. I just had my witness 10mm out last weekend, what a hoot.

[nalioth 405]

Cetme rifle, Romanian "G" AK and Kel-Tec Sub 2000.

 

 

 

Yes, it folds that small.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Does anyone know of an online dealer, or an upper midwest dealer that has them in stock for a reasonable price ($300 or less)? The online places I normally check into are all out of stock.

[dayanx 1]

yeah I'd pay 300 for one in .40 cal

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Well, after much searching I found a 40 cal at a reasonable price. So, after a quick strip down of it to see if there was any sort of need for a major cleaning, it went to the range with me. The gun thus far is a big dissapointment.

 

Of the 20 lead round ball rounds I tried to put through it, I had 6 FTF's. They were all related to the fact that the feed ramp has a sharp edge on itThe included mag was a factory glock mag, so that's unlikely to be the source of the problem. I'm sure it would work fine with small diameter cavity hollow points or FMJ rounds, but since I want it to also be a plinker (or emergency small game meal getter) it needs to be able to shoot lead ball

 

The misfeeds all were cases of having the feed ramp cut into the bullet face, then the bolt crushing the middle of the case in as it hangs up. I think this is something that a bit of dremeling work can fix, but frankly I'm really dissapointed in kel tec for not making the bullet feed ramp long enough in the first place then this would be a non issue. It always pisses me off when I have a brand new gun and I'm forced to decide to fix problems myself (potentially voiding the warranty) or sending it back to the factory for a series of non fixes. Usually it's because of a small design error that would cost less than $.01 of extra cost to fix in production.

 

Also, the trigger is crap and the recoil is damn snappy for a 40 cal (almost like a 308 saiga). The gun weighs almost nothing and has a teeny butt stock, so that parts just fine and understandable (but notable). Oh well, it's off to the basement to try to fix what the factory should have done properly. Yeah the folding feature is cool, and the availability of 29 round magss should be neat. It's a gun that's worth trying to get to working properly.

 

I never really got to testing accuracy, so if I get it to the point where the thing is more than just a cutsie bolt action, I'll post a report of that as well. My only consolation is that most pistols I've purchased at this price range were also in need of major tuning before they were reliable with lead ball.

Edited October 13, 2007 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff

[nalioth 405]

The gun thus far is a big dissapointment.

<snip>

My only consolation is that most pistols I've purchased at this price range were also in need of major tuning before they were reliable with lead ball.

I suspect that the firearms of which you are speaking were designed to use factory manufactured jacketed bullets.

 

You should expect disappointment when trying to get the gun to do something for which it wasn't designed (if not a violation of the warranty terms).

 

I've used original capacity Glock .40 S&W mags in my SU2000, 10 round ban mags and 27 round mags, and never had a problem with function. I only shoot jacketed bullets, though.

[Oswald2001 0]

Even many high end weapons that fire pistol cartridges won't feed round nose lead rounds reliably.

 

As mentioned above, they weren't designed for them.

[badman400 3]

I have a Sub2K I bought in FEB 2006. I have 686 rounds through so far with no trouble! Pretty accurate as well. It does have a snappy kick to it though. Mine is gripped for the Beretta 96 magazine.

 

A buddy of mine from the KTOG forum makes inexpensive internal buffers and butt pads for them. He also makes a bolt tube cover and a nice charge handle cover. These items make the Subby much more comfy to shoot.

 

His website is: http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/

 

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Light fluff and buff and still no joy with the lead. Does like the FMJ though and only had 2 ftf of 200 on that diet. Looking at the misfeeds on the lead has me worried about smileys though. I can see why glock went with unsupported bbls to get better feeding.

 

OK, so it's time to say uncle with the lead. Hopefully it will toss my nosler 135grain hollow points down range accurately and reliably (at 1650 fps, hehe).

 

The accuracy of the thing seems about on par with a decent production handgun, not much better. It is easier to shoot (despite the trigger and front "sight"). I would have liked it to be more of a real go to type of gun that could have eaten anything (like the rest of my pistols that weren't designed for lead). Managed to toss 200 rounds of 45 lead wadcutter from my beretta cougar with not one hiccup. Some are better designs from the get go, I guess. The KT is still a cool looking piece of plastic with a high oogle factor from the peanut gallery at the range.

[getitat 609]

Even many high end weapons that fire pistol cartridges won't feed round nose lead rounds reliably.

 

As mentioned above, they weren't designed for them.

 

Hello

I have yet to find a cartridge/bullet that my .45 ACP Beretta Storm isn't eager to reliably consume. I don't believe I've ever had a hiccup in 300-400 rounds.

I've fed it mega HP's, JHP's, Rangers, Hornady TAP, etc...

 

Respectfully,

guido2 in Houston

[Genocide 0]

My Hi-point .40 has consumed everything I've shot through it. Its been very reliable with around 400 or so rounds of the cheapest ammo I could buy, including about 40 rounds of round nose lead rounds.

[badman400 3]

I have one of each of the above mentioned pistol caliber carbines. All in .40, though I also have a 995 Hi-Point in 9mm and a Calico Liberty 100 as well. I have never shot bare lead ammo in any of them, but I have no feeding issues with any of the various kinds of FMJ/JHP whether new mfg. or reloads.

 

Here are the three .40's.

Top to bottom;

Kel-Tec Sub2000

Beretta CX4 Storm

Hi-Point 4095

 

The 995 Hi-Point with ATI stock:

The Calico Liberty with 100 round magazines:

Edited October 14, 2007 by badman400

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

20 rounds of 135 grain nosler HP's and it had 3 ftf's (two of those dumping the mag). Examining the FTF rounds has me really concerned as they were pushed into the case so far that I'm certain the powder was all that kept them from going in deeper. All three had mild to medium smilies (maybe not enough to effect expansion, but it took a fair pounding to get them to the point they were at). So how many bullets were pushed in and fired? Who knows.

 

I sense a potential KB out of this thing. I'm going to futz with the feed a bit more, but we're getting close to officially pronouncing it a complete POS. Once the round count hits 250 and it still doesn't cycle, it's not worth investing more $'s on the ammo. If it can't put 50 rounds down range without a single FTF then it's a looser in my book. Getting it to that point might be either impossible, or not worth the effort. Has anyone else with a sub2k 40 had similar issues? It seems like it's operating purely as it's designed and nothing short of a redesign of the gun would fix the issue.

[badman400 3]

20 rounds of 135 grain nosler HP's and it had 3 ftf's (two of those dumping the mag). Examining the FTF rounds has me really concerned as they were pushed into the case so far that I'm certain the powder was all that kept them from going in deeper. All three had mild to medium smilies (maybe not enough to effect expansion, but it took a fair pounding to get them to the point they were at). So how many bullets were pushed in and fired? Who knows.

 

I sense a potential KB out of this thing. I'm going to futz with the feed a bit more, but we're getting close to officially pronouncing it a complete POS. Once the round count hits 250 and it still doesn't cycle, it's not worth investing more $'s on the ammo. If it can't put 50 rounds down range without a single FTF then it's a looser in my book. Getting it to that point might be either impossible, or not worth the effort. Has anyone else with a sub2k 40 had similar issues? It seems like it's operating purely as it's designed and nothing short of a redesign of the gun would fix the issue.

 

Hey man, don't give up on it yet. The Subs are some of the most reliable Kel-Tecs made. Give the KTOG forum a try. Good bunch of guys over there. Tell 'em Badman sent you. More than a few Saiga fans among them. They love to help out with problems and they have a lot of knowledge. Just go to the Sub2K section. You might find some info on the search, but if not just register and ask. Just don't go hollering POS, they get a little defensive about their KT's just like we do about our Saiga's. http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

 

If someone on the forum can't help, not to worry. Just call Kel-Tec and send it back to the mothership. They practice a free lifetime warranty. If you're not the original owner, not a problem, just don't mention it. "Don't ask-don't tell...lol" Best customer service on the planet! I have 7 KT products. Out of the 7, I sent one in for repair. It came back good as new, no charge, with an extra magazine for the asking. Here's the toll-free number: 1-800-515-9983.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Good luck!

 

Badman

Edited October 17, 2007 by badman400

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Thanks for the info.

 

I went to the site and scanned all the pages. A post with a similar problem only brought responses of use a factory glock mag. Well, that's what the factory sent along with it. I really think that the weak recoil spring on this thing is contributing to the issues. I believe the bolt is slamming back waay too quickly as it bounces off the back of the recoil tube (digging into my shoulder). The bullet can only bounce off the feed ramp before the whole round is crushed by the bolt.

 

Last night I did more of a major surgery reshaping of the feed ramp and the performance with 135 grain noslers was only marginally better with 4 FTF's out of 20 rounds instead of 6. Not good. I went and bought some Hornady XTP's that have a more rounded profile to see if things improve. If those don't cut it, then it will go off to the factory despite my surgery.

 

I suspect there is something wrong with it as it's been nothing but problems from the start with this one. With the positive feed back about kel tec service, at least I'm hopeful that it might get working by spring. Good thing I have a reliable 10mm to use up all the HP's I've purchased.

[badman400 3]

Thanks for the info.

 

I went to the site and scanned all the pages. A post with a similar problem only brought responses of use a factory glock mag. Well, that's what the factory sent along with it. I really think that the weak recoil spring on this thing is contributing to the issues. I believe the bolt is slamming back waay too quickly as it bounces off the back of the recoil tube (digging into my shoulder). The bullet can only bounce off the feed ramp before the whole round is crushed by the bolt.

 

Last night I did more of a major surgery reshaping of the feed ramp and the performance with 135 grain noslers was only marginally better with 4 FTF's out of 20 rounds instead of 6. Not good. I went and bought some Hornady XTP's that have a more rounded profile to see if things improve. If those don't cut it, then it will go off to the factory despite my surgery.

 

I suspect there is something wrong with it as it's been nothing but problems from the start with this one. With the positive feed back about kel tec service, at least I'm hopeful that it might get working by spring. Good thing I have a reliable 10mm to use up all the HP's I've purchased.

 

You're welcome.

 

Kel-Tec will take it back (no matter what work you've done to it), and return it all new if necessary.

 

I know what you mean about the bolt hitting hard. That seems to be a common thing with the Subs. These things kick to be only pistol carbines.

 

Check out the Tacticool website. Guy makes internal buffers, bolt tube covers and even butt pads for the Subs. Prices are very reasonable. These add-ons make the Sub very comfortable to shoot.

 

Good luck.