nweddle 0 Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I'm a newbie to Saiga land Do I have to add US parts? Which ones? If these rilfes can be sold to the public, why do I need to modify it? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gundwulf 0 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 They cant be sold to the public, LEGALLY, without adding US made compliance parts. 922r violation. Ive got two LEO marked 12-Cs - BUT Ive added my compliance parts. Trigger, hammer, disconnector and pistol grip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Yeah, just buy a regular "sporting" saiga and change out the parts or get one already done for you buy one of the two guys on here marketing them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nweddle 0 Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thanks for the replies. I already have one inbound to my FFL. I guess he will have to keep the gun until I get the parts. He is also a gunsmith and will be able to change the parts out for me. Thanks for the advice! I'll post pics when I get it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 I have it on good authority that you need NOTHING for this shotgun to be legally owned by civilians as it is. Convincing your FFL is another story. 922® restricts the assembly, as it already comes assembled it is legal because there is no more AWB. www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm "Specifically, there is no longer a Federal prohibition on the manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices." So, since this shotgun WAS covered under the AWB, it WAS unavailable to civilians and it is marked with the LEO markings. Now that there is no more AWB, refer to the quote above and you have your answer. What about new Colt AR-15's that say LEO? Those are for sale to civies right now and are an identical analogy. ***I copied and pasted these remarks(except 1st and last paragraph) from another website, so I cannot take credit for the words...thanks M&J*** Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrapathy2000 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) dont listen to infidel. check import laws Edited October 15, 2004 by mrapathy2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) Edited October 15, 2004 by USMC_LB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) I looked up what 922(l) states....here it is: 922(l) Except as provided in section 925(d) of this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to import or bring into the United States or any possession thereof any firearm or ammunition; and it shall be unlawful for any person knowinglyto receive any firearm or ammunition which has been imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof in violation of the provisions of this chapter. Exactly. It says imported IN VIOLATION. The shotgun was legally imported, therefore it does not apply. It says possession of an illegally imported shotgun. Again, the shotgun was legally imported therefore it does not apply. It is trickily worded for sure, but it is the way they see it. But to be safe you probably should install the parts anyway. How are you guys going to buy them if this is the case? Do you think the people selling them are going to install these parts for you? Of course not. The funny thing is I somewhat agree with you guys. But the point from someone infinately more knowledgeable in these matters made a hell of an argument which I gave here. The tricky wording says it all. You didn't import it, nor did you modify it, nor where any of the two previous points done illegally. That excludes it from the violations. If you take your last statement to be the defacto truth, then we can't own them at all!!!! Please explain that one? . . . . see right here: "and it shall be unlawful for any person knowinglyto receive any firearm or ammunition which has been imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof in violation of the provisions of this chapter." "or any possession thereof IN VIOLATION OF THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER" You did not violate the importation part, therefore the possession part does not apply. Edited October 15, 2004 by infidel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 small update: one FFL already said no to doing a transfer for a 12c because of the reasons mentioned here...for someone I know. I don't think even the parts thing matters to some FFL's trying to be safe. I don't blame them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rock47 1 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I think some of you should work for handgun, inc. or the Fienstien staff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gundwulf 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Infidel, Do you work for the Alphabet bureau? 922r applies to ALL civilians. If you do not replace the parts, you are in posession of an illegally imported assualt weapon. LEO/Military do not have to meet 922r requirements. Are you a fed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I am a civilian gun owner who simply wants a Saiga-12c for myself. The majority feel the parts are needed, some think not. I'm a regular at AK.net and AR15.com, as well as several others. I have a unique name for most of them. If you agree with the translation USMC gives, then nobody can own this version of the Saiga...which is why I disagree after hearing both sides of the argument. Regardless, I did say it would probably be best to put the parts in and forget about it. I just wanted to provide another opinion of the vaguely written law. I'm still going to try to get one for myself before I resort to a regular conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I think this part of the link is interesting: "Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms." It was legally imported which excludes it from 922(l) illegal possession is not a factor because of 922(l) being satisfied(imported legally) being a LEO gun excludes it from the parts rule This would in effect be grandfathering, just like what happened in '94. But once more...put the parts in to be safe, I plan to if I am fortunate enough to find one when I am ready to buy it. Better safe than sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 man, this is so fucked up! how is a legally imported saiga12c materially different from a legally imported egyptian maadi or a chicom norinco??? what bs! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) Well all are good arguments, but my FFL would not transfer the 12C to me without buying and replacing the 4 parts. Hell it took 10 mins and anothe 5 mins to grind off the hammer and disconnector. A small price to pay for such a weapon($450+transfer fee) The 12C was imported legaly, but we civies cannot own a Imported so called "Assault weapon". For the 12C to be transferred it must become a domestic weapon (no more than 10 imported parts) Therefore changeout the 4 parts (FCG(3) and pistol grip) and you now have a domestic weapon. Now that its a Domestic weapon it can be transferred to any person that can legaly own a gun. FREE Edited October 15, 2004 by freefalle7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 If anyone out there does agree with infidel remember. If you do add a mag > 5 rounds, then you at that time may have created a nonsporting firearm. Better safe than sorry. -Kenneth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Remember, I have suggessted twice now that it would be best to do the parts anyway...especially to satisfy your FFL. I just wanted to present the other side to the argument as it was told to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
infidel 0 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) If anyone out there does agree with infidel remember. If you do add a mag > 5 rounds, then you at that time may have created a nonsporting firearm. Better safe than sorry. -Kenneth There is no law stating a max capacity for detachable mags on semi-auto shotguns. The law says a FIXED magazine in excess of 5 rounds... Title 18 U.S.C 921(a)(30)(D)(iii) "(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds" Edited October 15, 2004 by infidel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Infidel, I see what you are talking about but it is a very grey area. I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV , I dont completely understand the legal jargon of legislation at times. I do agree with FREEFALL that it is still ILLEGAL for civilains to own imported completely assembled "Assault Weapons" because of the 89 import ban. If it doesnt meet the "sporting purposes" clause then it cannot be imported for civilian ownership. The 12C DOES NOT meet the "sporting purposes" criteria. LEO/MIL owenership has no restrictions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 the bottom line as USMC_LB said. PUT IN YOUR COMPLIANT PARTS AND HAVE FUN!!!! You people are thinking too hard. FREE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.