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SBS Paperwork?


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How bad is the SBS paperwork to deal with.

 

Does anybody have any input into getting a conversion done?

Are you refering to doing the conversion and paperwork yourself or do you mean having the work done by a dealer?

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Its not bad, just a matter of getting off your ass and getting it done. Any class III dealer will walk ya through it. Basically its filling out about two pages worth of forms, a full set of fingerprints, a passport-style photo, a signature from your Chief Law-Enforcement Officer (CLEO= sheriff or chief of police) then sending it all in to the nice fellas at the BATFE with a check for $200. Thats about it unless I'm forgetting something. Kind of a pain in the ass, but you can get all that done in a few days, then you just sit back and wait for the short-barrelled goodness. :super:

BTW, this is the same process you go through to transfer short-barrelled rifles, short barrelled shotguns, suppressors, and machineguns. Believe me, its worth the trouble.

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How bad is the SBS paperwork to deal with.

 

Does anybody have any input into getting a conversion done?

Are you refering to doing the conversion and paperwork yourself or do you mean having the work done by a dealer?

 

I was unaware that you could do it yourself.

 

The biggest PITA would be threading the barrel for the poly-choke.

 

I think the smith here can.

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Its not bad, just a matter of getting off your ass and getting it done. Any class III dealer will walk ya through it. Basically its filling out about two pages worth of forms, a full set of fingerprints, a passport-style photo, a signature from your Chief Law-Enforcement Officer (CLEO= sheriff or chief of police) then sending it all in to the nice fellas at the BATFE with a check for $200. Thats about it unless I'm forgetting something. Kind of a pain in the ass, but you can get all that done in a few days, then you just sit back and wait for the short-barrelled goodness. :super:

BTW, this is the same process you go through to transfer short-barrelled rifles, short barrelled shotguns, suppressors, and machineguns. Believe me, its worth the trouble.

Don't forget the Form 1512-0571 "Certification of Compliance with USC 922(g)(5)B" which basically affirms you are a citizen of the US or are otherwise qualified to have an NFA item.

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How bad is the SBS paperwork to deal with.

 

Does anybody have any input into getting a conversion done?

Are you refering to doing the conversion and paperwork yourself or do you mean having the work done by a dealer?

 

I was unaware that you could do it yourself.

 

The biggest PITA would be threading the barrel for the poly-choke.

 

I think the smith here can.

 

I would think the PITA would be getting your CLEO to sign your form, would it not? Do you mail in a copy for him to sign, call his office to set up an appointment, is there an interview, how does that step work? Everything else seems like the usual paperwork you need in most states to get a carry license. Also, does a CCW help your case of getting your CLEO to sign? Anyone run into issues getting their LEO signatures?

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Having a CCW means nothing when it comes to C3.

 

As far as finding out if your CLEO will sign off...easiest way is to contact your Sheriff and ask him/her if they will sign off on your form 4. Each state is different, so check with your County Sheriff's Office. You might want to ask about your particular state at subguns.

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You can request or download a form 4, fill it out using the SN on your weapon and get the work approved, then do the conversion. This will keep you from having your shotgun tied up at the Class 2 location. I've had several of my customers go this route.

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I made a sawed off shot gun when I lived in Maine.

The Maine state constution basicly says they have to sign the paper work. "the righ to bear arms shall never be questioned" in Maine.

If you live in summerset county they will sign your form 1 for any thing.

I droped my form 1 off at the sheriffs office and they signed it and mailed it back to me in less then a week.

Every thing is legal in maine.

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I made a sawed off shot gun when I lived in Maine.

The Maine state constution basicly says they have to sign the paper work. "the righ to bear arms shall never be questioned" in Maine.

If you live in summerset county they will sign your form 1 for any thing.

I droped my form 1 off at the sheriffs office and they signed it and mailed it back to me in less then a week.

Every thing is legal in maine.

 

Thanks 748!

 

That's good to know.

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CLEO.... If you live in a State/County that the CLEO won't sign off on...Set up a Corporation.... I know it's a bit of work BUT you don't NEED the CLEO at ALL, no pic, I don't think you even need the fingerprint cards. You will need to keep the Corp. active yearly....

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I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in owning any class III weapon look into transfering on a trust. There is no CLEO signoff, no fingerprints, no pictures. Quick and easy.

 

How do you go about this?

 

Are there any cons to forming a trust?

 

No cons that I have seen, no tax issues like an LLC. One of the local (Ohio) class 3 dealers told me about this, they will even help generate the trust in Willmaker.

 

Here are some links to guide you along:

 

"www.arizonagunlist.com/

How_to_buy_NFA_class3_weapons_with_a_revocable_living_trust_without_a_CLEO_

signoff.html"

 

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7410

 

There are example forms in the first link.

 

EDIT: I have edited this post about a dozen times and cant get the first link to paste in correctly. You will need to cut and paste it (all 3 lines) into a new browser window. I think it has to do with the length of the website address. Sorry , maybe a moderator has a good idea how to fix this. First time I have run into this issue.

Edited by Maxwell
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Blackbear is correct, you can't make the Saiga as an AOW. You might be able to do it if you start with a new receiver, I guess, but I like having the shoulder stock.

 

I agree with Bob and Blackbear on this, definately not an AOW registration. But what about registering it as a SBS and then not having a stock installed? i.e. just a block, that could have a stock mounted on it (like an ACE internal).. Same effect you are looking for but different registration. Either way it would cost you the $200. I am not a laywer, so dont take this as legal advice, just my opinion.

 

I have heard of this being done with some imported rifles, but not seen it in person.

 

Thoughts??

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Revokable Trusts come in very handy and in my opinion are the best way to go if you're NOT going to buy a lot of NFA. The annual corporate taxes and requirements just don't make sense for one or two SBSs and a couple of silencers. HOWEVER, If you're going to have 20, 30 or 50+ transfers, and many of them machineguns, then corporations become much more convenient for future disposal of you collection.

 

Example, I only have a few NFA items ... some papered to me personally, some papered to a revokable trust. It doesn't make sense for me to form a corporation, register it, and pay the annual fees, and have public information known about the corporation. BUT an associate of mine int Tampa (where he couldn't get a CLEO signature) has probably over $500k in NFA - all to his corporation. This represents probably 30+ tax stamps. If he ever decides to liquidate his ENTIRE inventory... he simply has to sell his corporation. No transfer taxes apply because the corporation still owns the NFA items... the corporation just has a different owner and set of officers - just like all other corporate sales in America.

 

The new corporate owner has the same benefit one day, the ability to sell the corporation and its collective assets (and potential debts and liabilities) without NFA transfer taxes since NFA ownership is not being transferred.

 

FYI - If you're going the corporation route, I defintiely would hire an attorney to assist in the corporate paperwork. If you live in a state that has any peculiarities regarding Trusts, I'd hire an attorney to help set it up as well.

Edited by RDSWriter
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There are a few other things with trusts I would mention.

 

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, YMMV, UAYOR, etc.Here's "Trusts 101 in One Paragraph"

 

The thing about a trust is that the legal and equitable title (basically, who posses it physically,and can do things with it - legal - and who gets to benefit from it - equitable) must be separate. Basically, one person (the trustee) is the person who holds the property, and another (the beneficiary) is the one who benefits. This can be done for a variety of reasons - don't trust the beneficiary, want to make sure your child doesn't get all the money at once to blow through,etc. And, as noted above, it can be used to purchase NFA items, since the trust exists as a legal entity. However, notice I said the legal and equitable title must be separate. If you are the Trustee, and also the beneficiary, then the legal and equitable title merge, there is no trust, and now (if you're doing this for an NFA) the NFA items is unregistered, or is registered to the wrong entity.

 

So, to avoid this, you split it. YOu make yourself the trustee (which you really need to, or else you wouldn't really be able to cart around the NFA item) and someone else (or yourself and someone else - as long as it isn't just you) is the beneficiary. The thing to be careful of here is that you don't have any clauses about "preserving the property" or "making the property profitable." Some states assign this clause, and some programs will include this clause unless you leave it out. What does this mean? Let's say you set us a trust with your child as the beneficiary. Your child turns 18, and thinks "well, i'm gonna get something out of this" they could legally sue you for failing to preserve the trust property, because the beneficary has the power to enforce the trust.

 

Yeah, I rambled a little but more than necessary, but hey, you asked. :)

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