csmw 98 Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 I haven't been here in months. Just stopped in, saw this thread, hoped I could offer something to it. I haven't read the whole thread, so I am probably repeating stuff that might have already been said. 1st, same as everyone else.....polish contact surfaces on the bolt assembly, trigger pack, and all bbl edges. In regard to the bbl, I try not to reshape, just take the edges off and polish so there is no way it can 'drag' on a plastic round. You can also use 1911 recoil springs to replace the outer oem spring. You can lengthen the ejector for much more postive eject. One of our 12" guns was getting weak ejection with Walmart-Winchester after 100rds or so (dirty). Was ejecting, but not with much oooomph, and an occasional FTE. Gun worked perfect with every other type ammo, including Walmart-Remmy. I would have staked my life with the gun and any other ammo than Wally-Win, but imho, it should run anything 100% even when it's filthy. I lengthened the ejector .250", now it PUNCHES spent Wally-Wins to the moon. We can't run 3" in the gun anymore, but we never fired 3" anyway. Went from kicking the shells a couple feet, to throwing them about 6-10'. I would stake my life on it with Winny's now. If your getting FTE's, lengthening the ejector will cure it. On another note......MIKE.....Get them drums done, Bro!!!!!! We are all sitting at the shop with 'woodys' patiently waiting Everyone at C&S feels the same way....between the two drums, there is only one option....yours Quote Link to post Share on other sites
far50shooter 0 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 When you say lengnthen the ejector what exactly to you mean? The spring? Weld some metal on the ejector? Please clairofy the exact process to do so. Thanks I haven't been here in months. Just stopped in, saw this thread, hoped I could offer something to it.I haven't read the whole thread, so I am probably repeating stuff that might have already been said. 1st, same as everyone else.....polish contact surfaces on the bolt assembly, trigger pack, and all bbl edges. In regard to the bbl, I try not to reshape, just take the edges off and polish so there is no way it can 'drag' on a plastic round. You can also use 1911 recoil springs to replace the outer oem spring. You can lengthen the ejector for much more postive eject. One of our 12" guns was getting weak ejection with Walmart-Winchester after 100rds or so (dirty). Was ejecting, but not with much oooomph, and an occasional FTE. Gun worked perfect with every other type ammo, including Walmart-Remmy. I would have staked my life with the gun and any other ammo than Wally-Win, but imho, it should run anything 100% even when it's filthy. I lengthened the ejector .250", now it PUNCHES spent Wally-Wins to the moon. We can't run 3" in the gun anymore, but we never fired 3" anyway. Went from kicking the shells a couple feet, to throwing them about 6-10'. I would stake my life on it with Winny's now. If your getting FTE's, lengthening the ejector will cure it. On another note......MIKE.....Get them drums done, Bro!!!!!! We are all sitting at the shop with 'woodys' patiently waiting Everyone at C&S feels the same way....between the two drums, there is only one option....yours Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 When you say lengnthen the ejector what exactly to you mean? The spring? Weld some metal on the ejector? Please clairofy the exact process to do so. Thanks Tig weld up the extractor, and remachine it longer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 When you say lengnthen the ejector what exactly to you mean? The spring? Weld some metal on the ejector? Please clairofy the exact process to do so. Thanks Tig weld up the extractor, and remachine it longer. I had not thought of extending the ejector . nice idea. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 BUMPin this thread. It should be tacked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Tig weld up the extractor, and remachine it longer. Could you post a quick pick of your extended ejector? Thanks, IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 BUMPin this thread. It should be tacked. I thought it had been tacked already...it is now. Thanks for the heads up headshot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
combat engineer 0 Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 I just wanted to say thanks to those who provided pics! I picked up my S12 a few weeks ago and was having major issues. I had FTFs or FTEs almost every shot. I ground/polished part of the bolt and polished parts of the FCG and now it runs great! Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
s8lorenzo 0 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Another thing you can do is polish your bolt carrier and have it chromed. Today, I got back some of my carriers from hard chroming. These came out so good, that I may have t send the rest of mine in. Hey RDS writer, once you have polished the bolt can you take it to "any chrome shop" to be dipped? or only gunblueing shops? Thanks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hey RDS writer, once you have polished the bolt can you take it to "any chrome shop" to be dipped? or only gunblueing shops? Thanks... Well I can tell you I am not RDS writer but stay clear of any shop that does not have firearm experience. The chrome that is used for automotive bumper is a different formulation then the Hard Chrome normally applied to firearm parts! Thought I have seen a few folks that have tried it! I personally had a WWII FN Highpower that had been ruined by a cheap Automotive Shop chrome job. The finish was not very hard and the substrate bonding was terrible. It would come off in big flakes. In addition, for the firearms unwary, there is the problem of excessive accretion where chrome is applied too heavily to the point where it interferes with the function of the firearm. Admittedly not likely a problem for something with the tolerances of an AK! For a great example of a good factory hard chrome job take a look at an old Remington 870 Shotgun bolt. You will have a difficult time scratching the bolt with a screwdriver and I have never seen one flake! HTH! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Be carefull when chroming critical parts, chrome plating can cause stress fatigue due to embrittlement caused by the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tucson_sailors 0 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Just to add a reply and hearty thanks for the pictures. I've finally acquired a IZ 109 to go with the 20g and 410g, and both of those had some failure to feed issues. I've done throating and polishing on Colt .45's, but didn't think about the same on a AK, due to prior experience with Romanian AK's that had enough slop to feed anything I threw at it. Needless to say, getting an actual Izzie was a bit different. Polished and throated my IZ 109 and took it out shooting this weekend, with two of my new Gen2 10 round mags. Not a single FTF. Tried slow fire, no problems. Emptied the mag as fast as I could pull, no problems. I'm a believer. Just finished throating and polishing my 20g and .410. I guess this is the moral equivilent of putting 250 to 300 rounds down the spout, just much cheaper. I'm also thinking those Russian steel cartridges may also wear the feed array faster than my Wallie special loads. Only problem I noticed is trying to use a full size dremel with a 1099 bit in the .410. Not much room, so if you could get one of the dremel extensions (looks like a dentist drill setup) it may help. I'll post a reply after the next trip to the rangeif my problem children get better. Glenn in Tucson Proud owner of Papa, Momma, and Baby Bear 12/20/410 Saiga's (hmm, I wonder what Goldylocks will have to be?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stellar Rigs 0 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Here's a pic of the bolt smoothed and polished, both locked and unlocked. You only need to polish one surface of the actual bolt head, but two surfaces on the rotating locking body.Tony Tony I have been searching the web for a while for images with "how to" advice like yours. THANK YOU! Your picture shows the bolt (as seen from the mag well) polished very nicely. Is the whole bolt to be polished or just that part you show? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stellar Rigs 0 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Our local club had a daytime 2 gun match scheduled to follow our regular monthly pistol match the 1st Sunday of the month. As far as I know, every Saiga 12 that ever finished any of our shotgun stages (Except Tromix Saigas) had so many jams, stovepipes and/or FTEs that the time was way slower than even the three round the pump guns. Yeah they always joke about Saigas down here. I followed the advice of a guy on another site regarding breaking the new gun in to reduce problems as closely as I could. It is very tough for me to get the time, fuel and ammo together for a few thousand rounds of fire to "loosen up and knock the paint off" all those new parts. I put out an "all out effort" to avoid embarrassment in the match. I ran the hell out of the action while watching TV for the last couple of weeks. 10 minutes here, 5 minutes there, commercial breaks (with the sporing locked in) and so on. It's still pretty hot down here and most of our guys were talkin' beer, football & Nacscar by the time the pistol match was over. The 2 gun match was canceled and I had the range to myself after we put away all our gear and cleaned the field. I saw a grand opportunity and I took full advantage of the private space to try out my new toy. I set the gas control on "2" I buy jumbo packs of ammo on sale and I wanted to see if this thing would run on "other than premium" ammo. Like a new girlfriend; I don't mind feeding them whatever they like but it's nice to know McDonalds "dollar burgers" are OK with them too! The Winchester stuff was easy to load in the AGP mags and cycled great! The Federal was difficult for me to load but cycled great too. As for performance; the pattern was also surprising. I was shooting without targets (at a rotten shoe box on the berm) and at 50 yards the pattern (#7 shot) was no more than 6' across. For 2 gun shooting I think 15 yard will be a long shot so I don't think I'm gonna need a choke. The recoil was easy enough on the shoulder for fast follow up shots and the sight was accurate and fine for BRIGHT SUNNY shooting. I don't think I want to put a red dot on it after all - unless I cant fine a fiber optic front sight. Most of our club long gun stuff is after dark. When I clean it I think I will put the bolt and carrier on my buffing wheel to polish it up some more but I can't see any reason to fix or improve a perfectly good running gun. Over all I think my only complaint or problem is getting mags to lock in. I wish there was video for that! I don't like jamming plastic things into sharp metal holes and I am probably just being too careful. It was easier to load with the bolt open. Even then, it's gonna take a lot of practice to get fast. The LRBHO didn't work. I heard somewhere that the LRBHO function was something you can turn on or off and someone else said it only works with the MD-20 mags. What's the "skinny" here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NO1B4M3 0 Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 My gun works great and cycles well with the MD Drum.. I was going to polish my bolt and slick everything up but when I checked my Tromix Converted Gun it looks like Tony must have polished it in the process when he did my gun.. I am not sure but it does look completely different than my stock Saiga.. I gotta say, I love to work on stuff but I had Tony do a Saiga 12 for me for my collection and man it is a fine fine fine weapon.. This dude is awesome.. I am going to do my other gun myself (trigger group move etc.) but I am so very happy that I have a Tromix Gun done by Tony.. Amazing work and quality.. and its a ripper I jumped and shot 2 coyotes yesterday in my timber with a MD 20 round mag full of Super X 00 Buck.. Guys, it made an awful mess of those dogs.. That tromix rips shells out like you wouldn't believe and operates slicker than a ribbon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kelevra 1 Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 When I clean it I think I will put the bolt and carrier on my buffing wheel to polish it up some more but I can't see any reason to fix or improve a perfectly good running gun. Over all I think my only complaint or problem is getting mags to lock in. I wish there was video for that! I don't like jamming plastic things into sharp metal holes and I am probably just being too careful. It was easier to load with the bolt open. Even then, it's gonna take a lot of practice to get fast. The LRBHO didn't work. I heard somewhere that the LRBHO function was something you can turn on or off and someone else said it only works with the MD-20 mags. What's the "skinny" here? Excellent posts in this thread and above is a very good question I'd love to hear responses to. Also, is there a mag made from anything other then plastic available? Are the stocker "Fives" the better move to stick with? I'd really like a few uber-reliable/durable 10 rounders. Thanks as always for any responses. Best thread on teh forum imho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bounce12 407 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I just wanted to say thanks to those who provided pics! I picked up my S12 a few weeks ago and was having major issues. I had FTFs or FTEs almost every shot. I ground/polished part of the bolt and polished parts of the FCG and now it runs great! Thanks! I had the same issues, but I had a problem that polishing didn't fix. This is the problem I had - http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...0holes&st=0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stellar Rigs 0 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 BUMPin this thread. It should be tacked. I thought it had been tacked already...it is now. Thanks for the heads up headshot. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...0holes&st=0 this link just takes me back to the forum "home" Show us your stuff Shannon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 When I clean it I think I will put the bolt and carrier on my buffing wheel to polish it up some more but I can't see any reason to fix or improve a perfectly good running gun. Over all I think my only complaint or problem is getting mags to lock in. I wish there was video for that! I don't like jamming plastic things into sharp metal holes and I am probably just being too careful. It was easier to load with the bolt open. Even then, it's gonna take a lot of practice to get fast. The LRBHO didn't work. I heard somewhere that the LRBHO function was something you can turn on or off and someone else said it only works with the MD-20 mags. What's the "skinny" here? Excellent posts in this thread and above is a very good question I'd love to hear responses to. Also, is there a mag made from anything other then plastic available? Are the stocker "Fives" the better move to stick with? I'd really like a few uber-reliable/durable 10 rounders. Thanks as always for any responses. Best thread on teh forum imho. As far as the old "if it ain't broke...don't fix it" approach......that isn't necessarily true with S-12s. There are MANY improvements that can be made to a stock gun that will go BANG if you pull the trigger. On the LRBHO issue... Your gun does not have a LRBHO. Those letters stand for Last Round Bolt Hold Open. (SR, we've spoken on the phone and I know you probably know this. I'm only spelling it out for others who may not know) The Saigas come with a manual BHO from the factory. It's purpose is dual in the S-12. Unlike the other Saiga shotguns and rifles, with the S-12 the bolt is held farther back by the BHO. This is so you can change the mag easier if it is engaged. It IS possible to engage the BHO while firing the weapon. I am certain that they were designed this way on purpose, and the S-12, which is well known for being difficult for some people to load on a closed bolt, was made with a BHO like this (one that would hold the bolt back behind the magwell area) so you could engage it while firing your last round. The placement of the BHO button is a dead giveaway to this. Why else would the Russians put it right there over where your trigger finger (right handers) sits when the weapon is properly converted with the PG in the right place? Or more realistically speaking...the weapon has been put back in it's intended designed configuration, the way the great Mikhail Kalashnkov meant for it to be...not some obamanation shit with that God awful trigger linkage in there and no PG at all...(AND not one of these silly add on PG / stock combo shortcut jobs either). With the BHO button right over the top of your trigger finger, you can easily push up on it and engage it as you fire that last round in your mag (and you know it's the last round because you counted down from the top). This will lock the bolt carrier back, out of the way of mag insertion, and you can slap a new mag in there easily with no obstruction, then just pull the charging handle back and you are ready to go again. There is no "turning on or off" of the BHO. It's just a manual, springloaded device you activate with your finger. It's also convenient for locking the bolt back at any given time, such as when you are on the firing line at a public range. I hope that answers all the questions about the manual BHO that comes stock in the saiga. I am working on a true LRBHO now, that will hold the bolt back automatically after the last round is fired. I have had a solid working design now for about three years. It's a long story why it is still in the R&D phase, but rest assured it will definitely be available to the public this year! I am getting the bugs worked out with some of these newer mags on the market. It was originally designed to work with the factory S-12 mags (2, 5, and 8 rd). Then along came AGP....the MD-20 (which BTW it will NOT work with yet so get over it).... and now the Surefire... Once I have it working reliably with the Surefire and AGP as well as it does with the factory mags it's been working perfect in for years, I'll be mass producing them and selling them to everyone who wants one. I'm really close, so please just let me finish testing them and they will be out ASAP. And please do not let the LRBHO subject hijack this excellent thread. There are already many other LRBHO threads. We don't need any more started either thank you. Please. I'll post some video in my business section and start a brand new thread there. Til then, please be patient. BUMPin this thread. It should be tacked. I thought it had been tacked already...it is now. Thanks for the heads up headshot. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...0holes&st=0 this link just takes me back to the forum "home" Show us your stuff Shannon Not sure what that thread is supposed to link to but in keeping with the subject matter of this thread and staying on topic.....here ya go steller rigs....from my business section.....me showing my stuff. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33224 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve D 72 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Curious what method you are all using to do the polishing? Lapping compound, cratex wheel, diaper and a chocolate bar...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThumperIV 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 The buffer works fine in a standard AK where the bolt over-travels the ejector and magazine-well by about 1.5". But in the Saiga-12, the bolt only over-travels the ejector/mag about 3/8". So when you put that buffer in there, the bolt barely clears the ejector before it starts forward again. It's also barely cleared the back of the mag, so you don't have much time to lift the next shell up for feeding either. It's a lose-lose deal. Here's a pic of the bolt smoothed and polished, both locked and unlocked. You only need to polish one surface of the actual bolt head, but two surfaces on the rotating locking body. Tony The same thing has been going on with my saiga-12. It jams every time I fire or every other round, on a good day and I use the five round mag that it came with.. Also I can see a scratch on the 12 gauge shells after they eject. How did you polish it, did you use a nail file, sand paper or some kind of power tool? I am new to fireams if you cant tell lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I love this thread. I have a problem though...... My Saiga ran fine when I first got it a few weeks ago (an Obama special from CGW). Now after I buffed the bottom of the carrier and the engagement surfaces of the trigger & hammer, the action sticks half way forward. I mean STICKS. As in it takes 2 hands to move the thing. I can't see anyplace that's causing drag. I've cleaned everything up, put CLP on it and still it locks up. I haven't touched the bolt itself. I'm noticing a line being scratched into the face of the hammer and the bottom of the carrier when I hand cycle it. For the life of me, I still can't see anything that would be catching. I'm probably overlooking something simple, I know. I can post pics if someone doesn't recognize this issue and has suggestions. Thanks guys Corbin *Edit* Note: I didn't grind the carrier. I just used emery cloth to take the paint off and polish it up a little. Maybe there's a nick in the rails or something, but that wouldn't account for the scratching in the very center of the hammer and carrier. Edited February 8, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGlobule 1 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I love this thread. I have a problem though...... My Saiga ran fine when I first got it a few weeks ago (an Obama special from CGW). Now after I buffed the bottom of the carrier and the engagement surfaces of the trigger & hammer, the action sticks half way forward. I mean STICKS. As in it takes 2 hands to move the thing. I can't see anyplace that's causing drag. I've cleaned everything up, put CLP on it and still it locks up. I haven't touched the bolt itself. I'm noticing a line being scratched into the face of the hammer and the bottom of the carrier when I hand cycle it. For the life of me, I still can't see anything that would be catching. I'm probably overlooking something simple, I know. I can post pics if someone doesn't recognize this issue and has suggestions. Thanks guys Corbin *Edit* Note: I didn't grind the carrier. I just used emery cloth to take the paint off and polish it up a little. Maybe there's a nick in the rails or something, but that wouldn't account for the scratching in the very center of the hammer and carrier. Are you sure the bolt carrier is properly set on the rails? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guer0 3 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I love this thread. I have a problem though...... My Saiga ran fine when I first got it a few weeks ago (an Obama special from CGW). Now after I buffed the bottom of the carrier and the engagement surfaces of the trigger & hammer, the action sticks half way forward. I mean STICKS. As in it takes 2 hands to move the thing. I can't see anyplace that's causing drag. I've cleaned everything up, put CLP on it and still it locks up. I haven't touched the bolt itself. I'm noticing a line being scratched into the face of the hammer and the bottom of the carrier when I hand cycle it. For the life of me, I still can't see anything that would be catching. I'm probably overlooking something simple, I know. I can post pics if someone doesn't recognize this issue and has suggestions. Thanks guys Corbin *Edit* Note: I didn't grind the carrier. I just used emery cloth to take the paint off and polish it up a little. Maybe there's a nick in the rails or something, but that wouldn't account for the scratching in the very center of the hammer and carrier. Are you sure the bolt carrier is properly set on the rails? I was thinking the same thing. The first time I had mine apart I had the same experience because it wasnt on the rails correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Are you sure the bolt carrier is properly set on the rails? It's right here in front of me. The carrier is riding in the rails properly. I tried putting them on top of the rails and couldn't hardly get it to move forward more than a couple inches. So that's not the problem. I removed the bolt and the recoil spring and hand cycled the carrier against the hammer and it still freezes up. I know there's supposed to be a little friction when the carrier pushes the hammer down, but no grinding and no locking up should happen. I thought the edges of the hammer might have been sharp, so I SLIGHTLY rounded them down with some emery cloth. While it's better, it's still catching. I'll be going over to see Dinzag in a couple days though. I imagine he can figure this out. I'm just surprised I can't see what's up. It's a freakin AK for crying out loud. It's not that complicated. The problem SHOULD be obvious, but it eludes me, which is both annoying and embarassing. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tate 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Here is pdf document of that polishing thing: Polishing_Molot_Vepr_12_and_Saiga_12.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rock 1 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks Tate for that document Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I tried going back to my post from Feb 10th to just add a footnote, but there's no "edit" button. Weird. Anyway...... I went to Dinag's place and showed him what was up. Granted, by then I had sat around cycling the action probably 1,000 times and it was much smoother than it had been. I brought some of the Federal bulk ammo I THOUGHT was the same stuff it had cycled before, but it turns out it was #8 shot instead of 6 1/2. I'm not sure if that's what made it short stroke or not, but I at least felt better when I was able to get the same ammo to short stroke in Dinzag's saiga too. I discovered a bit of a rough spot on the underside of the one rail with a dental pic (don't worry, I was safe. LOL). After messing with it a little, a small thin piece of what appeared to be brass fell out. I don't know if it's a section of shell or what. That's the only thing I can think of though. The action is smooth now. I can still get it to short stroke with # 8, as you can see . It has more to do with the stock not being shouldered though I think. Cuz if I shoot each round normally from the shoulder, it cycles fine. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 This guide is awsome. I broke my gun in but after reviewing this took the dremel to it. Polished everything out and said why not? Polished the whole carrier. gives the gun a bit of a different look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hey Cobra, don't you offer this kind of work as one of your services? Are you also able to offer the polish and hard chroming as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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