Saiga .243 Winchester convert?

[cscharlie 107]

There have been times when it seemed like it might be a good choice for a semi auto rifle. I'm thinking less recoil, flatter trajectory, lighter load out, still have enough energy to be potent....

 

It might use the same bolt head, and mags as the .308. I'm wondering if it would be a simple barrel swap, and maybe some tuning. I realize we would be less the chrome plated bore and barrel that we have in the .308, but maybe we could use a stainless barrel with thicker walls and gain some accuratcy potential.

Wasn't the first FALs chambered in .243 Win.?

 

I've never even asked anyone if they would convert one for me let alone what the price tag would be mostly because of surplus ammo being plentiful and cheap, but now that is kind of a thing of the past.

 

What you good people think? Might it be a good choice for a two legged animal stopper/deer rifle?

Would you be interested in one if it were an option?

[MD_Willington 11]

Why would it have to have a non chromed bore? You can get a barrel made pretty much any way you want it to be made.

 

Cartridge base measurements are almost identical, looks like a pretty cool idea to chamber a Saiga in .243.

 

Edited November 2, 2007 by MD_Willington

[snake54 0]

Sounds like a job for TROMIX

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I'm not doing any one-off jobs anymore. But, it would be a fairly simple re-barrel job.

I had a factory Valmet Hunter in .243 at one time. Accuracy was rather poor.

 

Tony

[layer 0]

If I had a .243 Saiga I'd be figuring out how to convert it to .308.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

It would be as simple as a rebarreling, you'd just need to size the gas port correctly, and that might take a few iterations.

 

Me, I'm thinking of doing a conversion to 6.5x55 Swede. No it won't fit in the factory magazines or unmodified action.

[santanatwo 1]

spooky, I just thought of doing this conversion today.

 

I already looked up the specs, and posted on arfcom's ak BIY

 

then I got the brilliant idea to look here.

 

 

I should have known....

 

look sgood to me.

 

they are selling barrel take offs from bolt guns for CHEAP on gunbroker.

[santanatwo 1]

spooky, I just thought of doing this conversion today.

 

I already looked up the specs, and posted on arfcom's ak BIY

 

then I got the brilliant idea to look here.

 

 

I should have known....

 

look sgood to me.

 

they are selling barrel take offs from bolt guns for CHEAP on gunbroker.

 

unlike the 50 beowulf conversion I was pondering... this requires much less work...

 

 

P.S. hi tony... I met you at the tulsa gun show earlier this year... you might remember my guns you fondled???

 

this puppy would look nice in 243

 

 

Edited November 29, 2007 by santanatwo

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

30 cal has a better bullet selection so one caliber can do your small and large work. With a 243 you're sort of limiting yourself IMO.

[NY-proletariat 0]

30 cal has a better bullet selection so one caliber can do your small and large work. With a 243 you're sort of limiting yourself IMO.

 

 

If you're really worried about a flat trajectory and good results....you might as well go to the 260 Rem. It has better long range effects and trajectory than the 308...something the .243 doesn't have. The conversion would be the same and the 6.5mm bullets would be alot better in the penetration and ballistic coeficient department.

 

As far as a chrome plated barrel goes....you'd be better off in the accuracy dept. without one. Chrome plating was made for barrel wear protection and not accuracy. No sniper grade weapon has one. You can't get the chrome plating even enough in the barrel to guaruntee the best results for accuracy which is why it's not used by any manufacturer except on military type weapons that are made for high volume of fire.

 

Note; The first FALs were made in(8mm) 7.92mm kurtz (short) or 7.92x33.

Edited November 29, 2007 by NY-proletariat

[warchildindy 0]

30 cal has a better bullet selection so one caliber can do your small and large work. With a 243 you're sort of limiting yourself IMO.

 

 

If you're really worried about a flat trajectory and good results....you might as well go to the 260 Rem. It has better long range effects and trajectory than the 308...something the .243 doesn't have. The conversion would be the same and the 6.5mm bullets would be alot better in the penetration and ballistic coeficient department.

 

As far as a chrome plated barrel goes....you'd be better off in the accuracy dept. without one. Chrome plating was made for barrel wear protection and not accuracy. No sniper grade weapon has one. You can't get the chrome plating even enough in the barrel to guaruntee the best results for accuracy which is why it's not used by any manufacturer except on military type weapons that are made for high volume of fire.

 

Note; The first FALs were made in(8mm) 7.92mm kurtz (short) or 7.92x33.

 

 

I picked up a .243 dsa sa58 fn fal today. I like the bullet range, 50 grain up to 100 grains, around 3000' per second, not punishing on the shooter, 20 round mag., reliable (ak style gas piston system), and accurate. It has the fluted 19" stainless steel barrel, with the recessed target crown. There are rails mounted every where, including the receiver cover.

 

The reviews on this 243 semi-auto platform are very encouraging. It is based on a rifle, that I have been a fan, for a long time. I can finally afford to buy one. Some are used successfully in (3) gun shooting.

 

I own a vepr k .223 and a saiga 308-1 converted. I wanted a choice between the other (2) calibers. For my use, I consider the .308, my top end. Anything more than that, I would use a 12 guage slug.

 

I think a (ak) in .243 or 6.5 grendel is something that should be done. I would be interested in a 6.5 grendel, no doubt. There seems to be a renewed interest in 6mm to 7mm calibers as of late, for whatever reason.

 

This model of fn fal rifle is also chambered in .260 and for sale by DSArms.

Edited November 29, 2007 by warchildindy

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

I'm with you about the 260, that could have some real longer range benefits. Though, I've never really considered the 308 punishing and the 170+ grain bullets are pretty slippery too. The practical accuracy range of the saiga sorta makes the 260 vs 30 cal argument a little bit of a moot point. It's always pleasant to think of new combos of saiga reliability with new calibers.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a 35 cal saiga.

[warchildindy 0]

I'm with you about the 260, that could have some real longer range benefits. Though, I've never really considered the 308 punishing and the 170+ grain bullets are pretty slippery too. The practical accuracy range of the saiga sorta makes the 260 vs 30 cal argument a little bit of a moot point. It's always pleasant to think of new combos of saiga reliability with new calibers.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a 35 cal saiga.

 

The "punishing" statement was for my family members, of a slighter stature. I try to buy rifles that everyone in the family could and would operate in a pinch.

 

I like the .308, trust me on that. Even better, I used to own an old sporterized enfield in 30.06. I own a .223, only because it is the current long arm caliber choice of our military. I am not a fan, but I know there are pluses, just not enough for me to use as a sole caliber.

 

I like battle accurate high capacity semi-autos that will perform out to 300 yards. Bottom line, I usually shoot at 100 to 150 yards, 99% of the time. Any serious long range shooting would be from a bolt gun.

 

My point, is that I now have (3) decent calibers, with reliable and easy maintenance high capacity semi autos rifles, capable of adequate accuracy for my requirements. I would like to think that these (3) choices, will handle my needs here in the Midwest. Not the best, but available at most ammo selling places around here.

 

If, and when Uncle Sam does make a caliber change, I will want a reliable semi-auto (saiga, fn fal, vepr) in that caliber also.

 

It's good to see that there is a lot of vision in the Saiga owner circles. This one of my favorite places to learn and get good information and ideas. Thank you all.

[santanatwo 1]

there is also the 358 winchester http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.358_Winchester

 

this is a bad looking dude.

 

and the 22-250 looks like it might be close enough to work in the 8 round magazines.

 

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd22250.jpg

 

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd308winchester.jpg

 

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd243winchester.jpg

 

 

 

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

 

ETA: you could load 55 grain green tip in the 22-250 and have a heck of an AP round @ 4000 FPS

Edited November 29, 2007 by santanatwo

[NY-proletariat 0]

Buck: The 358 is doable as the case head is the same as the 308. All you'd really need is a new barrel and maybe the gas system adjusted. Brass wouldn't be an issue either as you always make some up from 308 brass. Same goes for the new 338 Federal,7mm08,260 Rem as well. I'd really like to see a Saiga in that 45 Bushmaster or 458 Corbon. Now that would be something else! There would be nothing in the western hemisphere that couldn't be taken with it! (including small cars and trucks! ).

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Buck: The 358 is doable as the case head is the same as the 308. All you'd really need is a new barrel and maybe the gas system adjusted. Brass wouldn't be an issue either as you always make some up from 308 brass. Same goes for the new 338 Federal,7mm08,260 Rem as well. I'd really like to see a Saiga in that 45 Bushmaster or 458 Corbon. Now that would be something else! There would be nothing in the western hemisphere that couldn't be taken with it! (including small cars and trucks! ).

Where can you get a 358 bbl?

[NY-proletariat 0]

Buck: The 358 is doable as the case head is the same as the 308. All you'd really need is a new barrel and maybe the gas system adjusted. Brass wouldn't be an issue either as you always make some up from 308 brass. Same goes for the new 338 Federal,7mm08,260 Rem as well. I'd really like to see a Saiga in that 45 Bushmaster or 458 Corbon. Now that would be something else! There would be nothing in the western hemisphere that couldn't be taken with it! (including small cars and trucks! ).

Where can you get a 358 bbl?

 

 

 

Buck: You can do anything in this country if you have enough money and time. I'd ask someone like T.Rumore...he's the resident expert on these matters. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know on gunsmithing. (I'm an end user, not a creator or an artist like T.Rumore)

 

Mags wouldn't be too much of problem either. The 358 is real close to the 308 so mag mods would be minor, I'm sure. The real problem is there isn't many bullet weights left for anything in the .358 caliber class. Most manufacturers have settled on the 200 or 250 grainers. The older light weights(150-180's) are long gone unless something has changed recently.

Edited December 1, 2007 by NY-proletariat

[santanatwo 1]

The magazine may be a little short for a normal 358, but you'll be handloading anyways. Don't forget, round nose FMJ 38 special bullets will work. that would make a nice high velocity round.

 

I bought a stainless 243 HOWA barrel on gunbroker. Now I just need to find some country gunsmith to lathe it for me.

 

if you want to get custom, how about a custom gas block, and a longer piston/gas tube?

 

 

mimic a garand action.

 

should add some accuracy, cause the action won't be cycling while the bullet is in the gun. You could use a 74 brake (without the ports) as a booster.

 

You could even use a krink gasblock, put it out near the end of the barrel. then all you would need would be a custom gas tube and piston.

 

it would be a the

 

Garand Krink! TM

Edited December 1, 2007 by santanatwo

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Here's an observation on cartridge conversions of Saigas:

 

The feed geometry of the S-308 is a strange dichotomy of sensitivity and reliability. Basically, it depends somewhat on the shoulder to feed correctly, or more precisely, to stack correctly at the top. A general rule of thumb is that you can always rechamber for a necked down cartridge and feed alright, but necked up cartridges may or may not feed as well. So 243, 260, and 7mm-08 would be sure bets, while you'd have to take some measurements and see how a loaded magazine inserts before trying the likes of 338 Federal and 358 Win.

[Paladin 37]

You guys have put more thought into this than I have and I haven't the background in reloading. But I have thought a Saiga in 6.8spc or 6.5 Grendel would be just awesome. The Grendel's case is a little extreme, so perhaps the 6.8?

 

The 308 pounds you with 15.8 ftlbs of recoil the 6.8 is just 8 ftlbs. Thats only 1.1lbs more that x39. Yet it packs some serious punch.

 

At 200yds the 308 has 2288 V and 1744 ftlbs.

At 200yds the 6.8 has 2262 V and 1307 ftlbs.

 

With AK piston and reliability!

[NY-proletariat 0]

Pounds you with recoil? You're kidding us right? The 308 has very little recoil compared to a 1903 Springfield or the average 30-06 hunting rifle that is even lighter than the Sprinfield!

 

An 8 lb. gas gun has very little recoil IMHO.

[warchildindy 0]

The ak 6.5 grendel has been done, with good results. I saw it on 6.5 grendel forum. If I remember correctly, it was made off of a 7.62x39mm saiga platform, with a 6.5 barrel.

Edited December 5, 2007 by warchildindy

[Paladin 37]

Pounds you with recoil? You're kidding us right? The 308 has very little recoil compared to a 1903 Springfield or the average 30-06 hunting rifle that is even lighter than the Sprinfield!

 

An 8 lb. gas gun has very little recoil IMHO.

 

I do mag dumps with my S12 @ 23lbs of recoil-so I'm not recoil sensitive. And everything is relative.

 

However, isn't rifle nirvana the light weight, handy length rifle that hits like one of the magnums, has the accuracy/range of a sniper and kicks like a .22?

 

 

The OP started with:

"There have been times when it seemed like it might be a good choice for a semi auto rifle. I'm thinking less recoil, flatter trajectory, lighter load out, still have enough energy to be potent...."

 

If someone has already built an AK 6.5, I'm going to check that out!!! If you combine the toughness of the Saiga platform, with the accuracy/range/hitting power of the 6.5-Wow.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

The 6.5 Grendel would be an easier conversion than 6.8 SPC due to having the same rim size as an X39.

[Paladin 37]

I checked out the 6.5 Grendel forum. Lots of talk over there about an AK conversion-one guy claims he's done it. But he hasn't posted any pic's or answered my pm's. No one else has stepped up with a yes or no on an existing build.

 

I have contacted Will at Red Jacket and he is looking for a barrel for me, he said he can contour it, etc. The question is the mags. I have heard the 74 mags will work with some tweaking.

[MadDog 3]

What we really need is a Saiga 50! Ma Duce's Step Brother...that would be the SHIT!!!! Tony are you up for some uncle suger work...

[cscharlie 107]

I'd like to take a shot at converting one. It might be a year before I could do it, but I believe I'll do it eventually. Depending on how it works out, I have a feeling to try .243 Win first, and then something else like maybe .260 later.

 

I suppose it would take building from the ground up, by someone with more tallent then I, but I would like to see a true Big bore rifle built on the AK action for a bear gun. Maybe a .375H&H, or .458Win mag:wub:

[G O B 3,516]

An AK in .45-.50 cal rifle round. Big bore HEAVY bullit, compact 10 rd drum. 16' barrell (including brake).

[Zebra 0]

there is also the 358 winchester http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.358_Winchester

 

this is a bad looking dude.

 

 

i like the way you think

 

check this out

My S-.358 dream

 

oh by the way its totally doable money is the only thing holding me up.

[netpackrat 566]

There was a guy who built an AK in .50 Beowulf...