hobbyist 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Brother, were the scope is mounted, I mean what type of mount are you using on the gun, can be a lot of stuff before you go ditching the gun. Post info and see what happens, do you try the irons on the gun or just the sight? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Err...no offense Hobbyist but that question is a little difficult to answer without watching you shoot it. vjor's right, there are a number of reasons for the grouping you're getting. Are you shooting with the stock folded or extended? Did you zero the eotech to your zero? Is it a real eotech or a knockoff? Are you normally a better shooter than 5-6'' at 25 yds (sorry man, had to ask 'cuz I don't know you from Adam). A barrel being shot out would not be my first guess. If all the above is not applicable to your situation then maybe look closer into the conversion. Perhaps there is something screwy there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyist 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Good question guys. I should clear a few things: I have been shooting for 30yrs+, and in my early days use to compete formally. I was shooting with the stock extended over shooting rest. I don't think it is my technique or the Wolf ammo, although I am sure I can do better with quality ammo. I was getting 2-3" grouping with my Arsenal using Wolf ammo on the same trip. I had heard that Saiga's are very accurate and compete with Arsenals. I use Ultimak on both my Saiga and Arsenal. I just checked the Ultimak and it seems to be solid. On the next trip on the range I will try it with iron sight, but I don't think the mount has anything to do with it. To mount the Ultimak over the forend, I had to do some precision cutting of the plastic forend and for proper clearances I used the ratchet clamp on the forend to fit. So by no means the barrel is "Floated". But I don't think that would/should effect accuracy this much. Also, just checked the riffling and it is well defined and clean similar to my new Arsenal so I don't think barrel is shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 (edited) What about the EOTech then? Maybe that's fugged . Edited November 6, 2007 by 22_Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyist 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Brand spanking new real EOTech - by the way I didn't know anyone made EOTech copies - but I divest . Also, sighted the gun with EOTech at 25yds - as much as you can with 5-6"grouping. So sounds like the good news is that SAIGAs are suppose to be much more accurate, based on your first hand experience! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Genocide 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Somethings defiantly wrong; at 50 yards you should be able to get 1-2" groupings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbremount 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Good question guys. I should clear a few things: I have been shooting for 30yrs+, and in my early days use to compete formally. I was shooting with the stock extended over shooting rest. I don't think it is my technique or the Wolf ammo, although I am sure I can do better with quality ammo. I was getting 2-3" grouping with my Arsenal using Wolf ammo on the same trip. I had heard that Saiga's are very accurate and compete with Arsenals. I use Ultimak on both my Saiga and Arsenal. I just checked the Ultimak and it seems to be solid. On the next trip on the range I will try it with iron sight, but I don't think the mount has anything to do with it. To mount the Ultimak over the forend, I had to do some precision cutting of the plastic forend and for proper clearances I used the ratchet clamp on the forend to fit. So by no means the barrel is "Floated". But I don't think that would/should effect accuracy this much. Also, just checked the riffling and it is well defined and clean similar to my new Arsenal so I don't think barrel is shot. I don't think it is the gun. My guess is that the scope and/or ultimak is not mounted securely. I have the Ultimak mounted on my gun also. I removed enough material from the handguards to make sure it does not interfer with the mountng of the untimak and barrel. The ultimak is low enough that you can co-witness the scope/red dot with the iron sights, then shoot the gun. In short order you will see if the scope moves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I don't know what an EOTech is. Is it a Holo-Dot reticle? It's possible that you have a really bad gun. Any chance of getting us Pics of the gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hobbyist, Thanks for not taking offense man. It's just hard to answer subjective questions like this when there are so many variables involved, experience being one of them. So back to your issue, if it's not the mount, or the sights, the only other thing I can think of is something interfering with the barrel. Can you perhaps try shooting it without the ultimak? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 When I first joined this board there was a post on a problem that several folks had w/ the ultimak mounts. The clamping action messed w/ the barrel and ruined the accuracy. Try it w/ just the irons and let us know how it goes. . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wlnt 2 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 (edited) Hobbyist, I will admit I don't know anything about an EOtech, but I can tell you my story. When I first fired my Saiga (converted) I was getting shots all over the place at 50 yards. I had several problems but I knew I had to take away any variables. I used my boresighter to see where my iron sights were (compared to the boresighter). I was way off. I had to wait for the tool I needed to adjust the front sight. With the tool I got it adjusted (at home) to lined up at about 20 yards. I went back to the range. I forgot my gun rest, so I used my sling and a low profile to almost hug the top of the bench I was shooting from. Now at 50 yards I am getting 3-5 inch groups and not from a gun rest. I think my Saiga will do 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards open sighted and better with a scope. To make my long story to an end, do you have a friend you could borrow a boresighter from? Better yet, buy one (since they regularly sell for $30 now). That way you know if the bore and iron sights are lined up. louielouie Edited November 6, 2007 by louielouie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 This past weekend i was getting 2"- 6" groups at 150 yds with the tapco side mount and a BSA (cheap) red dot that i did a quick laser boresight about 10 mins before shooting. At 50yds i was grouping around .5"- 2" shooting wolf and lapua hand loads. Yours should be grouping way tighter than that with the setup your running. Good luck and hope you get it going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Brother you best bet right now, is to try irons and see how it does, try 25 latter if goes good with irons try 50 and 100, you say you got it converted. Anything on the end of the barrel? like brake or flash hider? barrel normal length 16 or 20 inches? One thing I have see with ultimaks, is that all screws have to be tight even Steven on 4 sides or some times if you torque one side to much, you will see the rail will move to one side just enough to fubar stuff. But like I say, try iron and see what happens, make sure the irons are zero too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I was using my Ultimak and my accuratcy went to hell in a hand basket, the scope rings goot loose and which explains the mess I had. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbremount 0 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) The good thing about the Ulitmak is that it is mounted low enough to co-witness your red dot sight with your irons. You can verify if your red dot scope mounting is secure by attempt to move it by hand(light/mild whacks) or shooting the gun. If you see your red dot sight is no longer co-witnessed with the irons sight, then "your mounting is not secure". With the Ultimak you can verify/check to see if your red dot is still on target just by looking at the irons through your red dot scope anytime the gun is accidently or purposely dropped or before going to the range . This works for me. Your red dot sight should "always" look like this after firing or light tapping on the red dot/mount. Edited November 7, 2007 by jbremount Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I have found that my Saiga's actually shoot BETTER for me with the irons, than they do with scopes attached... It must be me, I dunno... that or I have stuck on some lousy crap assed scopes! LOL I cant wait to hear how it shoots with the irons... Does it have any muzzle device on it? was the barrel recrowned? or actually I should say fucked up with a recrown attempt that you dont notice without a real close inspection? If there is a break on it... is there a chance the projectile is hitting it when leaving the muzzle? ( not properly indexed) That will fuck up your accuracy really quick! Let us know how it goes! Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I will agree with that I shot with open sights in a 3 gun one time and it was very accurate at 80 yards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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