45-70's in the 410

[MR.K 0]

Yea ,a newbie with lots of questions.....I saw the threads here before on this but a few ?'s remain ... Could the Saiga 410 be the Taurus Judge 4510 revolver in a rifle form .....Why wouldn't the 45-70 bullet work in the 410 ...one thread said it wouldn't fit ....OK , what does that mean.... it wont chamber , too high chamber pressure, too long, too short ,too fat ,too skinny , relief in barrel needs to be cut deeper, wouldn't work in the 3in. mag. (the 2.5 are available now)........so if Taurus did it , could we ,should we, wow we.....thanks

[TonyRumore 1,332]

It is too wide to fit in the .410 magazine. 444 Marlin fits good.

 

Tony

[MR.K 0]

Will the Marlin 444 then work with out too much chamber pressure.? Has anyone shot 444 with out any damage ? I know the barrel is not riffled but it would be good for close quaters or would a 3" slug be just as good...

thanks

[G O B 3,516]

3" slugs are a great way to go, I keep the wife's S-.410 loaded with 4 #3 buck followed by 5 95gr slugs (1400 fps) all Barnul ,Golden Bear or Silver Bear (all are Barnul made steel hulls).

With the polished G3 trigger group, she can fire fast enough to have 5 or 6 hulls in the air at the same time. At HD ranges the .410 is more than adequate.

The 3" .410 shells are 1/3 of a 12 ga. Same velocity, but 1/3 the throw weight. 1/3 the recoil. So shoot 3X as many rounds!

Edited November 10, 2007 by G O B

[MD_Willington 11]

Will the Marlin 444 then work with out too much chamber pressure.? Has anyone shot 444 with out any damage ? I know the barrel is not riffled but it would be good for close quaters or would a 3" slug be just as good...

thanks

 

Tony, the first reply in your thread, has done just that... Search around the forum and you'll see one cool Saiga 444!

[BobAsh 582]

Will the Marlin 444 then work with out too much chamber pressure.?

 

Tony rebarreled his .444 model. I wouldn't shoot bullets through a shotgun barrel, just use slugs.

[termite 463]

I may be wrong, but don't think so. Are not smooth bore rifles ILLEGAL.

[BobAsh 582]

Are not smooth bore rifles ILLEGAL.

 

Well, "smooth bore" and "rifle" are mutually exclusive, but I don't know of any law relating to shooting rifle ammo through a smooth bore.

 

FWIW, I used to have a .72 caliber (smoothbore) flintlock that I routinely shot round balls out of.

[turbo1889 1]

I may be wrong, but don't think so. Are not smooth bore rifles ILLEGAL.

 

"ZIP guns" are illegal. By definition a "ZIP gun" is a homemade gun specifically designed so that it is not ballistically traceable in order to deliberatly confuse or compound law enforcement methodology. "ZIP guns" are almost always rifles without rifling but this in and of itself does not make a gun a "ZIP gun".

[MR.K 0]

But ...can you shoot a marlin 444 out of a 410 Saiga as is , ..1; with no damage to gun (tho accuracy will suffer due to no grooves) ..2 ; m444's loaded into a mag will chamber and shoot like a shot shells........This whole idea came from the Taurus Judge Revolver ,which can shoot either 45 colt or 410 2.5's (and not real accurately because OF the grooves affecting the shot some what) so that if you came across a bear 'would it be more punchey than shot shell .... Last thought , is a 444 more punchey than a 410 slug 2.5 ......thanks again

[Aethelbert 1]

But ...can you shoot a marlin 444 out of a 410 Saiga as is , ..1; with no damage to gun (tho accuracy will suffer due to no grooves) ..2 ; m444's loaded into a mag will chamber and shoot like a shot shells........

 

 

Mr.K -- Sure. You could do that. Especially, if you don't mind running the risk of holding a potential fragmentation grenade in your hands at the moment of firing. If you were firing a single-shot shotgun you could pretty safely fire one of the following in it -- .44-40... .44 Special... or the .45 LC but not the .444! IF you really, really just absolutely have to fire .444 out of your Saiga .410, please have Tony at TROMIX rebarrel it for you. Otherwise, stop even trying to figure out how to do this as you are courting diasaster!

 

As it is, a .410 with 3" magnum slug loads is a pretty hefty defense load at reasonable shotgun ranges. You want a .444? Get a rifle.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Aethelbert

[turbo1889 1]

Bullet diameter in 444 rifle cartridge = 0.430"

 

Barrel diameter in Saiga-410 = 0.410"

 

That bullet had better be pure soft lead !!!

[MR.K 0]

What is the 44-40 like?....never seen one!..............

[Aethelbert 1]

What is the 44-40 like?....never seen one!..............

 

The .44-40 started as a black powder revolver round in the 1870s or 1880s. It was a popular round, so popular that many Westerners bought many Winchester (and other makes) rifles in the same caliber. Made sense as this way they could carry carry both a handgun and a rifle in the same caliber -- no having to carry two different calibers. It fires a 205 gr lead bullet at about 750 fps. Not a long range cartridge but leathal at reasonable ranges and capable of taking deer at, say, 80 yards.

 

As you can see from the last couple of lines, it represents no advantage over the .410 3" magnum slug loads.

 

Stick with the .410 slug loads. Want more knock down power? Buy a Saiga 12 ga. Me? I'm happy with the .410 (as is my wife). However, if you want a rifle in .44-40, try a Winchester, Marlin or one of the fine replicas from EMF at:

 

http://www.emf-company.com/1892-winchester-rifle-carbine.htm

 

You would find one of the sort-barrled carbines to be fun to shoot and effective as a home defense or even hunting firearm.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

YES a 444 Marlin has more punch at any range. The 410 slug is ballistically comparable to a 357 at best. A 444 Marlin is comparable to the 45-70, but trading some bullet weight for velocity.