topmaul 42 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) Lets see your 3 gun rifles, If your using an AR which most are I would like to pick your brains I have just ordered a stripped lower and plan to build a purpose bilt 3 gun rifle with it and need some ideas. I do have an AR and it is not a bad gun it's just when the group buy of lowers came out I could not resist. I just wanted to know what features are popular, normally I don't pay a lot of attention to what other people are shooting. THanks Pictures help trust me! current AR Edited November 20, 2007 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 18" fluted stainless 1/9 barrel with a steel adjustable gas block, mid-length gas system, LaRue Tactical full free float four-rail forend with low-profile rail covers, chrome bolt, lightweight titanium bolt carrier, skeleton stock, oversized magazine release, oversized charging handle latch on a steel charging handle, forged upper and lower, flat trigger, a Meopta 1-4 K-dot scope in a LaRue mount, and an F2 compensator. I started with a flattop M4 about six years ago...now I shoot crap like this Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) My AR right now is an Olympic Arms Cast Plinker the gun is accurate and very reliable, it's just that I got a chance to buy a special edition stripped lower and decided that it was time to upgrade. Edited November 19, 2007 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Only two? You need to step up a bit That one is my current Open/Tactical gun...my backup gun is a plain 18" rifle-length-gas gun with a conventional stainless carrier (instead of the trick titanium lightweight jobbie), a M4, a pink AR, and...hell, I think 8 complete guns, one SBR, and ten nekkid lowers. I need to get building! Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HummerDawg 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Lets see your 3 gun rifles, If your using an AR which most are I would like to pick your brains I have just ordered a stripped lower and plan to build a purpose bilt 3 gun rifle with it and need some ideas. I do have an AR and it is not a bad gun it's just when the group buy of lowers came out I could not resist. I just wanted to know what features are popular, normally I don't pay a lot of attention to what other people are shooting. THanks Pictures help trust me! Edited November 20, 2007 by HummerDawg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HummerDawg 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 CMMG 18" rifle length gas upper, JP trigger, SJC Titan comp, VTAC handguard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tnek 49 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 My humble thoughts are twice is nice. IF you have a stripped lower and really look hard at the prices of putting one together your just as well of to send it to JP and let them build you one. Thats what I did last year and I think it was the best move. The thing is you can just get a JP15 built by JP instead of their full blown rifle and its pretty close price wise to what you can buy all the parts for. Myself I got an 18" stainless barrel and the low mass op system. Your looking at around $1700 plus your lower. The only thing I would do different is a Ace stock instead of the A2. For an optic I got a Meopta and a Larue mount. That was a tad pricey and its easy to save bucks on optics if you want. This setup is still great for close stuff but will reach out as far as you need probably. You wont regret letting JP build you one and its got all the parts people talk about already on it and test fired. MY OTHER 3 gun rifle I use for close stuff is a Colt 6933 factory SBR with a Danials Defense FF and a Flaming hog and a Aimpoint. Great for close work. But thats another story Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Montana3gunner 13 Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'm going to divert here a little from the general opinions.. First, I think you want to decide if you're going to shoot open sights or optics. Not that you couldn't have a gun that could do both, but I would suggest slightly different guns for the different classes. I don't think a guy needs a $1700 gun to compete. And I don't think 1/2 moa guns are needed for 3 gunning (if that's what we're talking about here..if not, I appologize). In my first 3gun match ever, I won the Limited (open sights) C class at the MGM Iron Man with a Mini-14, shooting Wolf ammo. If that tells you anything about accuracy requirements. I fell in love with shooting the open sights division. Using a Cav Arms lower that I won, I put a Rock River 16" mid-length flat top upper on it, with chrome barrel and tac latch and plain jane cheapo handguard. It's plenty accurate for 3gunning, 1 MOA with decent ammo, 1.5 MOA with milspec. I have a quick-release scope mount so I can plop a scope on it and shoot varmits. It surprises a lot of people with it's accuracy. No 20" barrel or free floating needed. It needs a better trigger and a brake, and I wish it was a tad lighter for a carbine. But overall, the premise was a simple gun. And frankly, it works. It's fast, and reliable. For most 3gunning, the trade off of a slight increase in accuracy that a longer/heavier barrel gives you does not overcome a gun that is easier to handle, point, and shoot. Having said that, whatever you get... make sure it's reliable. I've seen a lot of guys with cheap but reliable guns beat the paints off guys with super-duper guns that malfunctioned on a stage and cost the owner a lot of points. If you have to take an extra shot or two to hit the target it's not that big a deal...that's about 1-3 seconds. Have a malfunction, good luck. tick tick tick. If you want a gun that you can compete with, and shoot varmits at 400 yards, and don't mind a little trade off with weight and point-ablity, then the longer/heavier/fluted barrels are great options. Nothing wrong with getting a couple different uppers too! If I shot optics class, I might go with an 18" barrel, but still a standard countour and would keep it light and simple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mark78410 0 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I would say only one thing Benny Hill www.triangleshootingsports.com That is all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Benny (at Triangle) does very nice work. He builds great pistols, too JP was already mentioned...Clark Custom Guns builds a good rifle... You can put together a decent AR yourself, though, with a little research. Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ajackb 0 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey, OldandSlow.......... this stuff look familiar? Well, you haven't seen the S12 except in pics but..... Did you get the FTF figured out? AB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 What kind of 3-Gun matches are you guys shooting? In Central Florida, we have one match where the longest rifle shot is 90 yards. All of the other matches have rifle shots of less than 40 yards. I thought the question was 3-Gun rifle. The answers I am seeing are "Black Mountain Tactical Carry everything on your back with unknown distance shots up to 600 yards" match rifles. Where did the idea that JP triggers are the cats meow come from. They, quite frankly, are nothing more than redesigned GI triggers (with the same geometry) with light springs that don't detonate primers. The best single stage trigger for 3-Gun is the Jard. Because of the way they are designed, (The release point is halfway up the hammer), they detonate primers with a very light trigger pull. And Joe Shmoe can install them. Free float barrels? Why? For 40 yards? Fancy carbon fiber, aluminum, titanium, boron fiber stainless steel (I'm getting a little carried away here) handguards get way too hot when running a 50 round stage. The GI handguards are much better (and are no additional charge with your parts kit) By the way, for 3-Gun with USPSA rules, a Saiga shotgun, shoots open. The Receipe for a decent gun: Anybody's lower (But make sure that magazines slide freely in the mag well, cause no matter the brand, they sometimes don't make them according to the blue print). $140 The cheapest parts set that you can find with high flat top. (the standard flat doesn't mount red dots high enough) Get the 16 inch heavy barrel. The thin barrel recoils incredibly more. $450 Jard trigger. $100 C-more red dot (don't need the 2 minute dot), the standard is 4 minute dot. $220 (dot modules are $40 if you just have to have the 2 minute dot: you don't). JP tank brake. $100 Repeat: 3-Gun rifle is run and gun, not sniper school. Wow $1000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 If you take your bolt out and place a shotshell half way into the chamber and push up fairly hard on the shell, you'll find it very hard to push the shell the rest of the way into the chamber with your other thumb. There is an actual constriction between the right side trunnion and the left side barrel shroud on two of the Saigas' that I have checked. Hey, OldandSlow.......... this stuff look familiar? Well, you haven't seen the S12 except in pics but..... Did you get the FTF figured out? AB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flg8r 0 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 What kind of 3-Gun matches are you guys shooting? In Central Florida, we have one match where the longest rifle shot is 90 yards. All of the other matches have rifle shots of less than 40 yards. Come on over and check out the Hernando Sportsman Club 3-gun matches.. rifle targets from 3-300yds. Worth the drive. www.flpracticalshooting.com flg8r Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 OldandSlow, Guess it comes down to what you want. To me, my rifle is competition, so the light springs don't bother me (I control what it eats). I've fed a variety of rounds thru it without problem (PMC, PMP, WWB, UMC, guat, wolf ... and others) but I accept that it will not be as reliable on some rounds. But if we are talking single stage triggers, Jard is about as bad a recommendation as can be given (not just my opinion either). Reported Jard Problems. Hard to install, likes to double, etc. BTW, your match director is being VERY NICE to you. Virginia had a 3gun match at a 25 yard max range, and rifles were shooting lifesavers at that distance. And here, you definitely want a floated bbl at ~100 yards. I put a railed gas block on my rifle, and decided to try a bipod on it. POI moved more than a foot away (and it strayed). I quickly drilled a stud into my carbon fiber handguard to solve that problem. Typical here is some tough shots (~2 inches at ~85 yards), some speedy distance shots (pepper poppers at same) and lots of run/gun. But the long distance accuracy is where the match is typically won/lost as it chews the time the worst. Not odd to have average time on accuracy based stages be ~ spread between 100 and 200 seconds. Other stages are finished between 35 to 150 seconds. You blow the accuracy (say give up 5 to 10 seconds on a stubborn target) it's hard to catch up on the shorter run and gun stuff. YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 What is your experience with the Jard trigger? Mine is excellent. All of my buddies who have used JP triggers and suffered with light primer strikes have gone to Jard. We haven't experienced doubles. However, we have seen doubles with JP triggers and "gunsmith" modified GI triggers. What trigger are you using? 3-Gun shooters at our club are not interested in sniper shots. We have a High Power group with a real 600 yard range if you want to shoot 20 shots in 20 minutes. 60 shots all day. Heck, we have 20 second stages with 60 shots. The guys with carbon fiber handguards have to use gloves. OldandSlow, Guess it comes down to what you want. To me, my rifle is competition, so the light springs don't bother me (I control what it eats). I've fed a variety of rounds thru it without problem (PMC, PMP, WWB, UMC, guat, wolf ... and others) but I accept that it will not be as reliable on some rounds. But if we are talking single stage triggers, Jard is about as bad a recommendation as can be given (not just my opinion either). Reported Jard Problems. Hard to install, likes to double, etc. BTW, your match director is being VERY NICE to you. Virginia had a 3gun match at a 25 yard max range, and rifles were shooting lifesavers at that distance. And here, you definitely want a floated bbl at ~100 yards. I put a railed gas block on my rifle, and decided to try a bipod on it. POI moved more than a foot away (and it strayed). I quickly drilled a stud into my carbon fiber handguard to solve that problem. Typical here is some tough shots (~2 inches at ~85 yards), some speedy distance shots (pepper poppers at same) and lots of run/gun. But the long distance accuracy is where the match is typically won/lost as it chews the time the worst. Not odd to have average time on accuracy based stages be ~ spread between 100 and 200 seconds. Other stages are finished between 35 to 150 seconds. You blow the accuracy (say give up 5 to 10 seconds on a stubborn target) it's hard to catch up on the shorter run and gun stuff. YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The fun part about 3-Gun is that you never know quite what you are going to have to do. If you only shoot at one match run by the same guy who only does the same thing every month, you can optimize your equipment for that limited experience and have fun. However, if you are going to play a more serious game, then you need to set up your gun to do everything...decently. A 1,000 yard Service Competition AR and a short-range hoser AR are totally different. Building a gun that will hold to 600 yards yet will still burn barrels at 5 feet is something different. Making that platform run every time, in all weather, under all conditions, at all angles...that is the trick. A normal shooter doesn't need to go all supergeek and run a light (titanium) bolt carrier with an adjustable gas system on a custom profiled barrel with a funny trigger and weird sights all over. But...it is entertaining Getting a gun set up exactly the way you want, to do everything you want to do with it, is the key. I've shot matches that expected you to engage a moving target at 300 yards with 30 rounds on the clock...anything over 20-25 seconds with misses was out of the game. I've shot matches that expected you to run through a maze shooting targets close enough to leave powder stippling...that ended with a row of 50-yard off-hand shots at targets the size of a deck of playing cards. I built AR's as a business...one-offs, built to the customer's specifications, for games like this. I built similar guns, but rarely build anything the same. Everyone likes things set up differently...which is part of the fun. With a gun that runs 100% and set the way you like, can you crush the competition? I prefer to fit guns to people...starting points are the dozen or so AR's in my primary safe. Offering advice over the internet is tough; handing various configuarations to folks and letting them try each one...is a lot easier. Denigrating anyone else's choices, though...well, I've shot enough to know that one size really doesn't fit all, and that if your gun doesn't fit you and your shooting style then you won't do as well with it Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh, and Jard triggers...I am not a fan, FWLTIW. They take a long time to fit and the adjustment settings don't always hold under hard use. They feel nice when they are done right, though. JP triggers are cheaper and a lot easier to install...and can be set up with standard springs if you run hard primers. A heavy but smooth trigger with mimimal takeup and overtravel is a lot easier to shoot than a light creepy trigger...or anything that doesn't set off primers There are a few drop-in AR trigger sets...I'm rather fond of the McCormick flat trigger system, although I seem to be in the minority. JP makes a nice drop-in that has some user-adjustable points, too. And...polishing the engagement surfaces on a GI trigger and hammer work pretty well for an inexpensive trigger job. Just enough to get the machine marks off but not enough to wear through the surface hardening Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tnek 49 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 What is your experience with the Jard trigger? Mine is excellent. All of my buddies who have used JP triggers and suffered with light primer strikes have gone to Jard. We haven't experienced doubles. However, we have seen doubles with JP triggers and "gunsmith" modified GI triggers. What trigger are you using? 3-Gun shooters at our club are not interested in sniper shots. We have a High Power group with a real 600 yard range if you want to shoot 20 shots in 20 minutes. 60 shots all day. Heck, we have 20 second stages with 60 shots. The guys with carbon fiber handguards have to use gloves. OldandSlow, Guess it comes down to what you want. To me, my rifle is competition, so the light springs don't bother me (I control what it eats). I've fed a variety of rounds thru it without problem (PMC, PMP, WWB, UMC, guat, wolf ... and others) but I accept that it will not be as reliable on some rounds. But if we are talking single stage triggers, Jard is about as bad a recommendation as can be given (not just my opinion either). Reported Jard Problems. Hard to install, likes to double, etc. BTW, your match director is being VERY NICE to you. Virginia had a 3gun match at a 25 yard max range, and rifles were shooting lifesavers at that distance. And here, you definitely want a floated bbl at ~100 yards. I put a railed gas block on my rifle, and decided to try a bipod on it. POI moved more than a foot away (and it strayed). I quickly drilled a stud into my carbon fiber handguard to solve that problem. Typical here is some tough shots (~2 inches at ~85 yards), some speedy distance shots (pepper poppers at same) and lots of run/gun. But the long distance accuracy is where the match is typically won/lost as it chews the time the worst. Not odd to have average time on accuracy based stages be ~ spread between 100 and 200 seconds. Other stages are finished between 35 to 150 seconds. You blow the accuracy (say give up 5 to 10 seconds on a stubborn target) it's hard to catch up on the shorter run and gun stuff. YMMV. I still like JP triggers. I have no experiance with Jard but my JP's break clean and have never let me down. My SBR has a stock Colt trigger and if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty a custom trigger of any kind is pretty much pointless for less than 100 yard run and gun stuff. I mean if I want to go shoot high power Ill go back to Compass Lake for a trigger. Its all subjective and based on your likes AND what kind of matches you anticipate shooting in. Remember its the indian not the arrow but I still like to play with cool arrows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Wow this is old my plinker now has a mega upper flat top, Wislon 3 gun trigger group and a Magpul set of hand guards along with a stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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