'86 FOPA and SOT's

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Link proveded for orgin of data: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/...ist/nfa_faq.txt

 

In 1986, as part of the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA), Congress prohibited individuals from owning machine guns, and made it an affirmative defense that the machine gun was registered before the act took effect (which was 5/19/86). See 18 U.S.C. sec. 922(o) for the law. Thus as an individual you can only legally own a machine gun that was registered before that date. Any registered after that date can only be owned by SOT's, law enforcement, and government entities. A SOT may not keep these machine guns after surrendering his SOT. In order to transfer one of these machine guns, the SOT must have a request from an agency able to own one for a demonstration. Or an order from one of those agencies to buy one. A class 2 SOT can make machine guns for research and development purposes, or for sale to dealers as samples, or for sale to government entities. These are commonly called post-86 machine guns.

 

On top of the FOPA machine gun restrictions, any NFA weapon imported into the U.S. after the Gun Control Act took effect (end of 1968) cannot be transferred to an individual. See 26 U.S.C. sec. 5844. They can be transferred to SOT's, although without any written police demonstration request, and kept by the SOT after surrendering his SOT. These are sometimes called "pre-86 samples", or "dealer samples", although dealer sample can be used to refer to either a post-86 machine gun or to any NFA weapon imported after 1968.

 

 

>>Is it just me or does the BOLDED & UNDERLINED law above contridict it self? Does anyone know which way the law works? Meaning if Tromix or VanKiller make FA weapons and then their license expires or whatnot do they have to give up all NFA/Class III weapons?

 

Thanks,

Michael

[RDSWriter 5]

It's actually pretty simple. All imported, registered machineguns prior to 1968 GCA can be transferred to individuals and dealers. After the GCA took effect, dealers could purchase imported machineguns and keep them after they gave up their SOT licenses... but these post '68 machineguns can only be purchased by a SOT holder - individuals cannot purchase these post '68 machineguns. The imported machineguns are commonly known as pre-86 dealer samples.

 

Machineguns manufactured after the 1986 FOPA (domestic or imported) cannot be owned by anyone without an SOT. They can be purchased by an SOT holder with the appropriate paperwork, but they cannot be kept if/when the dealer gives up his SOT status - unlike machineguns that were imported or manufactured prior to 1986. These are commonly known as post-86 machineguns and are basically restricted to ONLY LEO, military and SOT holders.

 

If you're wondering about the HKs, Stens, Sterlings, PPsh's, AKs, et cetera owned by individuals... almost all of them started life as semiautos or tubes and were manufactured (Form 1 or Form 2) in the US... so they are not considered imported machineguns.

Edited November 24, 2007 by RDSWriter

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Excuse my language but this SHIT SUCKS!! I just want a reasonably priced FA. Is it that hard to come across something that is cool looking, fires a round that I could afford 1000's of and not sell everything I own? Damn, I mean the Marine Corps see fit to send me to special schools, go to war, blow shit up, give me high explosives and I still have to wait the entire period on a NICS check. Cant disclose; mission g13 classified; why but trust me it aint a bad thing. The FBI likes me...were drinking buddies....NOT!! Sorry, I just want a FA S12, am I'm asking to much?

 

>>Sorry for that rant I'm a little moody...no sleep in 30 hours and I still have 8 more hours on shift.

Edited November 24, 2007 by MCASgt New River

[RDSWriter 5]

The only way we're going to see 'reasonably' priced machineguns (in the USA) is:

 

1. Get congress and the President to repeal 922(o)... I expect the Rapture to occur before they vote new machinegun manufacture for individuals

2. Get a case to SCOTUS and get 922(o) repealed... a remote - but the most likely- scenario for new machinegun manufacture

3. Make one illegally... and risk the 10 years in jail and never legally owning any guns again

 

Remember... the antigunners didn't prohibit you from owning and purchasing machineguns.... just new, affordable ones.

Edited November 24, 2007 by RDSWriter

[oldandslow 3]

Ok, help me out here. What is the fascination with machine guns?

I can understand blasting away with the US Government buying my ammo.

 

However, when I consider buying a MG42 (only $40000 or $50000), which may be old, but still the best, what am I going to do with it? Convert it to 308 (7.62x51) and start loading 15000 rounds (reputed to be the daily ammo supply for a MG42 in WWII).

 

Then once a year go to one of the big machine gun shoots and burn 1300 rpm for 11 minutes.

 

Pick up all the brass, then start reloading. Only about $6000 to reload the 15000 rounds.

 

Getting ready for next year.

 

I understand Dillon has a "shoot" where they try to knock down model airplanes flying past. Obviously, you need quad 50's or a minigun. I think I saw a minigun for $275000.

[RDSWriter 5]

You about nailed it on the head oldandslow.

 

I used to go to local MG subgun matches about 5 - 8 times per year. Additionally, I practiced with about 1000 rds per month... which is not that much practice at 650 rpm. Granted, with a 30rd mag that translates into 33 mags. BUT, shooting steel plates you can easily burn through that in one afternoon.

 

When I started going to one match per year and wondering why I was looking at my HKs more than shooting, I decided it was time to sell them. I still collect guns, but not for investment.... which seems to be the main reason why most people are justifying getting into the machinegun hobby nowadays. The ONLY reason why they are expensive is because (1) the laws don't allow new ones for individual ownership, (2) Sec 922o is perceived as impossible to get repealed, and (3) people tend to think that the government won't change the laws in the future.

 

Personally, machineguns are VERY FUN... but long ago their prices exceeded their value to me. I've recently gotten into semiauto subgun competitions and they are almost as fun as the machinegun matches with a lot less cost and - what I perceive to be - a faster growing enthusiast community. When I talk with my old machinegunning buddies... they indicate that rarely do they get new people at the matches and most of the new ones are more affluent and less 'good ole boy' in their attitudes and comaradery.

 

There is any number of ways that gun laws will negatively impact the value of machineguns and only one way for the value of them to keep going up. The only way to keep going up in value is for the laws to never change... which will not happen. Either laws will get less restrictive (which may negatively impact the values) or laws will get more restrictive (with may negatively impact gun values). Hell, an amnesty (which I highly doubt will ever occur again) will destroy the value of most of them and that is not even a legislative change.

 

That's why I got into SBRs, SBSs, AOWs and silencers. They are just like machineguns used to be... inexpensive (comparatively) and worth less than you paid for them the day you buy them (as long as they are not collectible items). If the anti-gun crowd ever shuts down all NFA manufacturing like they did with machineguns, you'll see SBRs and silencers go up in value like machineguns.

 

On a different note - IF I was an antigunner congressman, I'd try to get the NFA open again for new MG manufacturing (to destroy the investment of major gun collectors and enthusiasts but at the same time get most pro-gun people to support my bill), raise the tax to $500 per NFA item (because it hasn't been raised since 1934), and make the Form 4 a 'final transfer' so that once a NFA item is transferred to an individual (via a Form 4) it can never be transferred again (thereby destroying any new investment potential because the item could never be sold off the Form 4). Most people that want a machinegun would support this because most people can't reasonably afford a machinegun with today's situation. Personally I"d buy another machinegun in that scenario, but I wouldn't buy any machinegun that was too expensive because it wouldn't be worth more than it's parts if I decided to sell it. Upon disposition, the government could just create another taxable form and licensing scenario for destruction of any Form 4'd gun that an individual no longer wanted... so they could have more bureacracy and make more money. Dealers and manufacturers would probably love it because they would never have to worry about a used gun market while at the same time being able to offer new products. I bet banning the transfer would even be kosher with the Supreme Court when they rule that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right later this spring. After all, banning a transfer of an item that is available through other commercial channels would not impede the ability to obtain, 'keep' or 'bear'... it would only restrict future disposition.

 

On the very antigun side, they could just ban MG transfers like they currently ban manufacturing... that one would really be a homerun for them. If they have the power to ban manufacture... I'm sure they think they have the power to ban transfer.