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sKott's Saiga 12-C Conversion


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#1 sKott

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 03:07 AM

After buying a Saiga 12 and gathering a lot of parts I figured it was about time to start the conversion.
I usually keep a blog on AK builds so I thought I'd do the same here.

I wanted to keep this as simple as possible and keep it as original Russian as I could.
After looking around I really liked the 12-C with the AK100 style folding stock. So that's what I'm going for.

As I understand the 922 compliance parts count requirements I will need to replace 5 parts.
In this conversion I will replace the pistol grip (K-Var), the FCG (Dinzag Arms) and the gas piston (Tromix).

This is where I started:

Posted Image
Stock IZ-109, Factory 5 Round, Factory 8 Round, Izhmash folding stock with Saiga 12 Trunnion 5.5mm pin, Izhmash Saiga 12 Latch, Russian Flash Hider, Tantal's AK74 Pistol Grip Plate, K-Var AK74 Trigger Guard Modified to remove extra holes, K-Var Pistol Grip, K-Var Pistol Grip Nut and Screw, Tromix Gas Piston, Russian Sling and accessories, etc.

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Detail of AK-100 Folding Stock and Saiga 12 Trunnion

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Detail of Factory Retaining Latch (I am missing the pin keeper but it should get here by the end of December)

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Detail of Trigger Guard Modification

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Initial Field Stripping

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Original FCG Removed

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Bottom Plate and Lower Tang Removed

That's it for day one.

#2 Azkamidaka

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 09:43 AM

Sweet man, 12c was what pushed me the way I went. Unfortunately mines a bit half assed because I couldn't find the factory retaining latch. Come to think of it, I haven't looked for one for the saiga since the conversion, and that was quite a while ago. Where did you get your conversion materials? I just a kit off of KVAR and it included this doo dad for regular AKs. It looks like the latch is the only piece that you have that I didnt.Posted Image

I can fold it over i just cant lock it down :lolol: Posted Image

I know youll be happier with the damn stock being able to lock to the side lol.

Edited by Azkamidaka, 04 December 2007 - 09:44 AM.

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#3 sKott

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:02 AM

The retaining latch came from rusmilitary.com - It it not listed on their site but if you email Oleg he may have a set.
The folding stock came from a member on akforum.net and I got the trunnion from another member on the same board.

sKot

#4 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:11 AM

Sweet man, so far so good. Keep us updated. From what I've read installing the latch is the fun part....

imag036.GIF

 

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#5 Paladin

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 12:53 PM

Excellent! make you post pic's of the the completed conversion in the "show-off" thread. :super:

#6 sKott

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:57 AM

Day Two...
Removed the rear trunnion, reshaped the back angle, drilled hole for the folder lock.

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Trunnion Removed

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All holes drilled and test fit the new AK100 stock. - Everything lines up.!!!

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I've been wanting to see this folded for a long time!!! - Still need to cut the square section for the locking tab.
I'll get that and the Pistol Grip Hole cut on day 3.

Edited by sKott, 05 December 2007 - 10:07 AM.


#7 RDSWriter

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:21 PM

You're going love the original configuration... the 12Cs are great.

FYI - Two quick things for you:
1. It appears that you're missing the retaining clip that holds the front latch pin in the receiver.
2. Your modified trigger guard is inconsistent with the shape of an original 12C.

I am not saying this to be critical, I just want to give you a head's up (if needed) prior to getting knee deep in your conversion and finding out later. If you already know these things, please disregard this post.

Edited by RDSWriter, 05 December 2007 - 09:26 PM.


#8 sKott

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:59 AM

You're going love the original configuration... the 12Cs are great.

FYI - Two quick things for you:
1. It appears that you're missing the retaining clip that holds the front latch pin in the receiver.
2. Your modified trigger guard is inconsistent with the shape of an original 12C.

I am not saying this to be critical, I just want to give you a head's up (if needed) prior to getting knee deep in your conversion and finding out later. If you already know these things, please disregard this post.



RDSWriter,
Rusmilitary.com is hopefully going to ship me the missing retaining clip this month...

May I ask if you have a picture of a correct trigger guard? - I would like to get this as close as possible.

Also, If you have a a 12-C would you mind making a few measurements for me? I need to know where to drill the hole for the retaining latch pin and how long the slot is for the side - See below.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Thanks - sKott

Edited by sKott, 06 December 2007 - 03:00 AM.


#9 sKott

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 09:40 AM

Day 3 - Finishing up the rear of the receiver

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Cut the Tab for the folder lock

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Cut the Pistol Grip Hole Nut Hole

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Inside view

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Drilled Pistol Grip Plate for spot welds.

Can't wait until this is done!!!!

#10 nib

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:17 PM

Not to be a dick. but,Is it ok to remove or deface an import mark? I see you had no choice but to remove the section for the side folder.
I am in the process of doing one and thought this would be an issue.
Nice looking project. I cant wait to see the latch install. It seemed to be difficult with the trunion in the way.
You are the guide in my project and thanks for posting this step by step build.

Edited by nib, 07 December 2007 - 07:18 PM.

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#11 TheGunHustler

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:18 AM

maybe when this is done we could stickey this

Edited by TheGunHustler, 08 December 2007 - 08:19 AM.

gunhustlers guns


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

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peace through superior fire power

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#12 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:54 AM

Not to be a dick. but,Is it ok to remove or deface an import mark? I see you had no choice but to remove the section for the side folder.
I am in the process of doing one and thought this would be an issue.
Nice looking project. I cant wait to see the latch install. It seemed to be difficult with the trunion in the way.
You are the guide in my project and thanks for posting this step by step build.

It's fine to remove any marks except the serial number.

So far, so good man! She's coming together nicely. You may want to do some research on that forward latch. The S-12 is different where the trunnion and magwell area is concerned. From what I understand, it doesn't just drop right in, you have to do some custom work on the latch itself. There is a thread about that somewhere in here with good pics and details.

imag036.GIF

 

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#13 RDSWriter

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 04:58 PM

May I ask if you have a picture of a correct trigger guard? - I would like to get this as close as possible.

Also, If you have a a 12-C would you mind making a few measurements for me? I need to know where to drill the hole for the retaining latch pin and how long the slot is for the side - See below.


Here's the pics you wanted. For the second pic (the measurements), you'll need to open the original image to view it properly. Also, you'll note that original AWB 12Cs don't have BHO or the pistol grip plate. Personally... I'd do what you are doing and keep them as they (IMHO) should have been there in the original design. You're conversion is looking great so far.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by RDSWriter, 08 December 2007 - 05:03 PM.


#14 sKott

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 11:46 PM

May I ask if you have a picture of a correct trigger guard? - I would like to get this as close as possible.

Also, If you have a a 12-C would you mind making a few measurements for me? I need to know where to drill the hole for the retaining latch pin and how long the slot is for the side - See below.


Here's the pics you wanted. For the second pic (the measurements), you'll need to open the original image to view it properly. Also, you'll note that original AWB 12Cs don't have BHO or the pistol grip plate. Personally... I'd do what you are doing and keep them as they (IMHO) should have been there in the original design. You're conversion is looking great so far.

Posted Image

Posted Image



Thank you - this is exactly what I need

#15 sKott

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:43 AM

Day 4

Today I thing I'm seeing a little progress.

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Got the Folder's Catch Latch slot cut

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The Folder Catch latch pin hole is drilled

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Trigger Guard Holes drilled and Trigger hole modified for a double hook

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Test fit - I will need to make the hole in the trunnion a little deeper so the pin will seat properly. Bit is too dull - will have to get another 4mm

Posted Image
Another view.

Edited by sKott, 09 December 2007 - 04:44 AM.


#16 1liter

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 12:44 PM

Where did you find the buttstock and folding latches?

#17 sKott

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 06:21 PM

Where did you find the buttstock and folding latches?


I got the rear trunnion, locking hardware and the front latch from Oleg at rusmilitary.com. The folding buttstock and the 8 round mag came from members on akfourm.net.

#18 oldandslow

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 08:15 PM

Thanks for telling your story.

We should all do the same thing with our build projects. It makes you do things right. I know that I "half-a**ed" some things that I would not have done if I was posting accounts and pictures of my builds.

Thanks again.

Edited by oldandslow, 09 December 2007 - 08:16 PM.


#19 sKott

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 02:26 AM

Day 5.

Got another 4mm bit and finished drilling the pin hole - All of the drilling is finally done.

After reviewing the trigger guard picture from RDSWriter, I decided to modify the trigger guard again to be a little more accurate

Posted Image

Next I wanted to utilize a RSA FCG Retaining plate.
Problem... The selector hole is a little lower on the Saiga 12 than a regular AK (I guess to clear the bolt carrier)
So it is time to modify!
On the RSA Retainer Plate I had to remove material from the top above the selector hole, re-angle the bottom and remove some material around the trigger pin hole.

Posted Image
This picture shows an unmodified plate (Bottom) and the Modified Saiga 12 Plate (Top)

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This picture is the two plates stacked with the Modified Saiga 12 one on the top. This should give you an idea of what had to be removed.

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This shows the test fit - Nice and snug. - I also ran the bolt carrier across it just to make sure there was plenty of clearance.

Tomorrow I will go to Global Trades to pick up a selector stop - That should be the last part to modify

#20 sKott

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 01:02 AM

Day 6....

Got a new Bulgarian Selector Stop from Global Trades and removed the extra 2 holes and extra material.

Posted Image
Modified Selector Stop

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Test fit to show that the selector stop and selector are fitting.
(Yes, the screws are there for position only - Rivets coming soon.)

sKot

Edited by sKott, 11 December 2007 - 07:38 AM.


#21 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:20 AM

Dude those bolt heads scared the shit outa me! :eek: LOL

Fantabulous job man! :smoke:

imag036.GIF

 

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#22 Azkamidaka

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 06:22 PM

Looking mighty fine man keep up the good work!
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#23 OG12C

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 01:34 AM

WOW Nice job admire the work keep it up
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#24 sKott

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:50 PM

Thanks everybody!!!
I think its going well so far.

Today I took the receiver to Elk River (Global) to have the welding and rivets done. I would like to do the rivets myself but lack the tooling and shop press to do those steps. It should be ready to pick up around Thursday. I will post more picts after i pick it up.

sKott

#25 nib

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 07:52 PM

Looks good. I am sure the end results will be perfect.
What finish are you going with?

Finally, has anyone done a screw build on an AK.
I may do a 5.45x39(low recoil)
I am sure the gun comes apart after 2000 rounds or so.
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#26 sKott

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 08:18 PM

I will eventually Hard Chrome Plate the Bolt Carrier, BHO Lever and the Folding Stock locking pin.

I want the rest to be Flat Black. The guy at Global said I should parkerize it but I do not know if that's the best route...
I was thinking about trying out Norrell's Molly Resin.

What other options are out there?? Opinions Wanted!!!!!

#27 saiga12fan

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 09:14 PM

Nice.
Glock 21/23, DE .50, Walther P22, TEC-22, Bersa .380, .22 PENGUN, Bushmaster, SKS, Mosin Nagant, SAR-1, AKS-47S, AKS-74U, Marlin .22, Tromix Saiga-12. All Shooters Biatch! -FRANKY.J.-

#28 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 09:32 PM

I will eventually Hard Chrome Plate the Bolt Carrier, BHO Lever and the Folding Stock locking pin.

I want the rest to be Flat Black. The guy at Global said I should parkerize it but I do not know if that's the best route...
I was thinking about trying out Norrell's Molly Resin.

What other options are out there?? Opinions Wanted!!!!!

Duracoat makes a very nice finish.

imag036.GIF

 

 - Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <

Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/

Our Sub Forum - COBRA'S CUSTOM LLC
IMPROVISE! ADAPT! OVERCOME!

 

 


#29 sKott

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 07:19 AM

I will eventually Hard Chrome Plate the Bolt Carrier, BHO Lever and the Folding Stock locking pin.

I want the rest to be Flat Black. The guy at Global said I should parkerize it but I do not know if that's the best route...
I was thinking about trying out Norrell's Molly Resin.

What other options are out there?? Opinions Wanted!!!!!

Duracoat makes a very nice finish.



So should I Parkerize then Duracoat or can I just duracoat it?

#30 RDSWriter

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 09:10 PM

You don't have to parkerize... BUT

If you have the means to get it parked and then Molycoated... DO IT. You'll never regret having the parkerizing. It makes the Duracoat or Moly stick much better and will make the gun finish damn near last forever. I parked and moly'd an AK (regular shooter) about 13 years ago... there are a couple of scratches, but other than that it looks new. You'll never regret getting it parked first... but I can't say the opposite.

Edited by RDSWriter, 22 December 2007 - 09:10 PM.





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