sKott's Saiga 12-C Conversion

[oldandslow 3]

sKott,

Nice as usual.

Are you going to need a "cheek pad" to get a sight picture with the Kobra?

 

As you may know, I have added a Russian magazine well to one of mine.

I also put one of your "copyrighted" trigger guards on a Saiga-12 while helping one of our active duty (Coast Guard) members convert his.

 

 

 

 

 

Not finished yet....

 

I did however get the Kobra Red Dot optic for it.

 

 

 

 

I posted the rest of the Kobra pictures on another topic.

 

According to my list All I have left is

Parkerization

MollyResin

Hard Chrome Plating

And an ACE Case Bag.

 

I have to say this has been one of the most expensive conversion/builds I've ever done.

But I would not have done it any differently. It is exactly as I imagined it.

[sKott 26]

sKott,

Nice as usual.

Are you going to need a "cheek pad" to get a sight picture with the Kobra?

 

As you may know, I have added a Russian magazine well to one of mine.

I also put one of your "copyrighted" trigger guards on a Saiga-12 while helping one of our active duty (Coast Guard) members convert his.

 

 

Thanks.

 

It seems to be more of a chin weld but it seems ok for now.

 

I ordered 8oz of Norrell Moly Resin this week. We'll see how that turns out...

Edited April 2, 2008 by sKott

[sKott 26]

I think it's about time to finish up this project and move on to the next one.

 

To refinish I picked up 8oz of Norrell's Moly resin and a Airbrush from Harbor Freight.

 

This weekend I plan on blasting with 70 grit Aluminum Oxide, cleaning, coating and baking following the directions that came with the product.

 

This week I took everything apart and finished cleaning up the rear of the receiver where the import marks were.

 

 

More to come

Edited April 25, 2008 by sKott

[oldandslow 3]

sKott,

You might consider this mini paint gun instead of your air brush. I got it at Harbor Freight for $9.99. I didn't know that they made one so small until I stumbled across it in the HF store.

[far50shooter 0]

I think it's about time to finish up this project and move on to the next one.

 

To refinish I picked up 8oz of Norrell's Moly resin and a Airbrush from Harbor Freight.

 

This weekend I plan on blasting with 70 grit Aluminum Oxide, cleaning, coating and baking following the directions that came with the product.

 

This week I took everything apart and finished cleaning up the rear of the receiver where the import marks were.

 

 

More to come

Did you remove the barrel?

[sKott 26]

I think it's about time to finish up this project and move on to the next one.

 

To refinish I picked up 8oz of Norrell's Moly resin and a Airbrush from Harbor Freight.

 

This weekend I plan on blasting with 70 grit Aluminum Oxide, cleaning, coating and baking following the directions that came with the product.

 

This week I took everything apart and finished cleaning up the rear of the receiver where the import marks were.

 

 

More to come

Did you remove the barrel?

 

No I will plug the barrel and the gas block before blasting and coating.

Edited April 27, 2008 by sKott

[inparidel 4]

Not to be a dick. but,Is it ok to remove or deface an import mark? I see you had no choice but to remove the section for the side folder.

I am in the process of doing one and thought this would be an issue.

Nice looking project. I cant wait to see the latch install. It seemed to be difficult with the trunion in the way.

You are the guide in my project and thanks for posting this step by step build.

It's fine to remove any marks except the serial number.

 

So far, so good man! She's coming together nicely. You may want to do some research on that forward latch. The S-12 is different where the trunnion and magwell area is concerned. From what I understand, it doesn't just drop right in, you have to do some custom work on the latch itself. There is a thread about that somewhere in here with good pics and details.

 

Cobra:

 

What's up guy? I hope all is OK with you. Long time no visit the site, but. . regarding your response to this guy. . .I am pretty near completely certain that the importer MUST be on a gun that has been imported. That's why it's on every gun of any kind that has been imported. The BATFE would like to know from whence the thing comes. The SN and the importer are pretty much carved in stone as far as I have seen/heard/researched.

 

Later dude.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Well I'm not above being mistaken...I did read somewhere on here though, that the serial number was the main important thing not to mess with and you could do what you wanted with the rest. At the time, my main concern was getting rid of the "read owner's manual before use" stampings.

[RDSWriter 5]

ONLY SERIAL NUMBERS are subject to federal statutes for Title 1, non-NFA, privately-owned firearms.

 

Repeat - ONLY SERIAL NUMBERS are subject to federal statutes for Title 1, non-NFA, privately-owned firearms.

 

I understand the confusion because there is a lot of crap out there on this topic that just keeps getting regurgitated. But anyone who states otherwise is mistaken, and everyone who keeps posting that information other than the serial number 'protected' is just flat out 100% wrong.

 

On a Title 1, non-NFA firearm, only the serial number is required to be kept on a firearm by federal statute. The manufacturer, importer, make, model and all other information can be removed on a privately owned firearm.

 

On a NFA firearm, you can remove all Title 1 markings except the serial number (unless the Title 1 information is the same as the Title 2 information). 'Protected' markings differ for NFA v non-NFA firearms. NFA regs require both the serial number and original NFA manufacturer information. So in short, if you file a Form 1 - then you can remove all the markings except the serial number and then engrave your information (name, city, state). If you file a Form 4 - you can can remove all markings except the serial number and the original NFA manufacturer's name, city and state. Finally, where/how you engrave your markings are subject to the same regulations for both Title 1 and Title 2 firearms.

 

FYI - For those of you who want to reference these images in the future, you might want to download them... you never know on the Net when they will just disappear (ala Soupbowl Enterprises letter from the Tech Branch regarding the sporting Saiga 12 imported parts count being 13.)

 

Edited April 28, 2008 by RDSWriter

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

WEll there you have it...

 

Thanks RDS Writer

[sKott 26]

After a good aluminum oxide blast and a MEK bath The Saiga 12 was ready for a new coating. For this I chose the Black Flat Thermal Cure Norrell Moly Resin.

This stuff works great, easy to apply and really looks like a professional finish. Trust me, its not my skill with an airbrush - Ive never used one until now.

 

 

 

 

 

Last thing to complete is to Hard Chrome Plate the Bolt carrier, Hinge Pin and Folding stock lock.

 

sKott

[RDSWriter 5]

sKott - You're conversion was going great until you refinished it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that finish will never pass for an original S12C. The original finish is not nearly as nice looking. In all honesty, you're conversion looks fantastic!

 

 

If you were really going for factory, you should have left some oil on the metal at the joint areas to ensure the paint didn't adhere too well and make sure that you only apply a very thin coat that facilitates scratching and flaking.

 

It's nice to see that the home Norrel molyresin comes out so well.. I'm been thinking about doing a few of my Saigas with it and I think your pics just sold me.

Edited April 30, 2008 by RDSWriter

[OC80mg 0]

sKott - precise and meticulous work, well done; top notch quality. This is the type of conversion I was hoping for my gun but evidently I bought the triangular folding stock with the locking mechanism adapter at the end of it so I won't be installing a latch. As if I know how to, anyways. Nice work!

[OC80mg 0]

oops, double post

Edited May 25, 2008 by OC80mg

[sKott 26]

Thanks everybody...

Last thing I have to complete is Hrad Chrome plating the carrier, BHO Lever, Hinge Pin and folder lock.

I will have this one and the Carrier from my AMD 65 build done at the same time. (Hopefully in the next month or two).

 

sKott

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

sKott

 

 

Need a few pointwers in the buttstock to retainer latch area.

 

With anal-retentive use of calipers, and SLOW hand filing(takes quite a bit of time, and patience)..I have the S-12 receiver done. I've gone over the holes with calipers. It's right on the above measurements.

 

I've noticed my front latch retainer assembly is a bit further back under that rivet than yours. But it shouldn't be the problem I'm having. Actually. It should help!

 

I can push my buttstock on the latch. But when pushing in the buttstock cleaning kit/buttstock release button. It doesn't push the latch far enough off the buttstock to release. About .02 I'd say. It's right there. But it makes the buttstock button kind of go off center and catch on the side of the ring in the buttstock cleaning kit end.

 

I've tried 2 of my AK-100 buttstocks. One is a bit better. But both wont unlatch. I even filed a bit more to the right of the latch, in the rectangle to allow it to lay further down against receiver for release.

 

I'm gonna get with a friend, and member here later this week. He built his own AK-103/Saiga. His is nice. But I think I see why his rectangular latch hole needed to be longer than the stock measurments though. Maybe he ran into this as well?

 

I haven't riveted/welded yet. But i was testing fitment to ensure It would come together. Placing rivets, and pins in the buttstock, and rear trunnion.

 

It looks perfect. I keep guaging it with the calipers. It's right on. But I feel I have to maybe file a fraction off somewhere for give.

 

When aligning up the buttstock to latch, and looking down between them. The latch seems too far forward from the buttstock catch. Like its not on the downward rounded end, but more towards the flat top part of the curve on the retaing latch. But when I push. It does move inward, and rearward towards receiver. It does latch on. Getting it undone is another matter. A bit tight.

 

Helpful hints?

 

Been waiting 4 years with these parts now. I'm doing it slow, and correct.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. Elk River gave me the same quote for weld up/riveting of trigger guard.

[sKott 26]

sKott

 

 

Need a few pointwers in the buttstock to retainer latch area.

 

With anal-retentive use of calipers, and SLOW hand filing(takes quite a bit of time, and patience)..I have the S-12 receiver done. I've gone over the holes with calipers. It's right on the above measurements.

 

I've noticed my front latch retainer assembly is a bit further back under that rivet than yours. But it shouldn't be the problem I'm having. Actually. It should help!

 

I can push my buttstock on the latch. But when pushing in the buttstock cleaning kit/buttstock release button. It doesn't push the latch far enough off the buttstock to release. About .02 I'd say. It's right there. But it makes the buttstock button kind of go off center and catch on the side of the ring in the buttstock cleaning kit end.

 

I've tried 2 of my AK-100 buttstocks. One is a bit better. But both wont unlatch. I even filed a bit more to the right of the latch, in the rectangle to allow it to lay further down against receiver for release.

 

I'm gonna get with a friend, and member here later this week. He built his own AK-103/Saiga. His is nice. But I think I see why his rectangular latch hole needed to be longer than the stock measurments though. Maybe he ran into this as well?

 

I haven't riveted/welded yet. But i was testing fitment to ensure It would come together. Placing rivets, and pins in the buttstock, and rear trunnion.

 

It looks perfect. I keep guaging it with the calipers. It's right on. But I feel I have to maybe file a fraction off somewhere for give.

 

When aligning up the buttstock to latch, and looking down between them. The latch seems too far forward from the buttstock catch. Like its not on the downward rounded end, but more towards the flat top part of the curve on the retaing latch. But when I push. It does move inward, and rearward towards receiver. It does latch on. Getting it undone is another matter. A bit tight.

 

Helpful hints?

 

Been waiting 4 years with these parts now. I'm doing it slow, and correct.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. Elk River gave me the same quote for weld up/riveting of trigger guard.

 

I had the same issue. The latch cannot go any further back or it will be in the mag opening. The solution I was given was to trim the buttplate and the plunger:

 

Trimmed Plate

 

Trimmed plunger.

 

I was told that this is how they do it at the factory but have not seen any proof. But it does work.

 

sKott

[RDSWriter 5]

sKott:

 

I'm not understanding exactly what you trimmed. the button in photo 2 doesn't even protrude from the rear of the stock, correct? What else what cut/filed?

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

Thanks sKott! It worked!

[sKott 26]

sKott:

 

I'm not understanding exactly what you trimmed. the button in photo 2 doesn't even protrude from the rear of the stock, correct? What else what cut/filed?

 

The rear plate will need to be trimmed

 

I also had to file the plunger a little because after trimming the release on the plunger was even with the plate (no where for the hook to grab)

 

This shot shows how the latch and plate should line up. If the plate is left too long it will not engage the hook at the tapered section.

 

Hope this clarifies....

Edited July 16, 2008 by sKott

[RDSWriter 5]

Thanks... that was what I was looking for.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

Thanks for all your photos, and experience sKott. It helped me greatly to buck up and do it myself. I don't think I'm gonna ship most of my AK's off to other people to build. I see where the time comes in. But other than welding. It was awesome doing it myself.

 

I'm shipping my S-12 off to Elk River tommorrow morning!

 

Getting her welded, and riveted. Can't wait to get her back!

[sKott 26]

Thanks for all your photos, and experience sKott. It helped me greatly to buck up and do it myself. I don't think I'm gonna ship most of my AK's off to other people to build. I see where the time comes in. But other than welding. It was awesome doing it myself.

 

I'm shipping my S-12 off to Elk River tommorrow morning!

 

Getting her welded, and riveted. Can't wait to get her back!

 

I can't wait to see the picts...

[TX-Zen 287]

This is a fantastic thread, its exactly what I want to do with my S12 except I will probably use a triangle folder instead of the 100 series polymer.

 

Question for anyone, can you use a Bulgarian hardware set or are any of the parts Saiga or AK100 series specific?

I noticed mention of modifying the trunnion and the rare Russian retaining latch as well. I'm wondering if the Bulgarian needs the same modification, or if it will even work in the first place.

 

 

Thanks for any suggestions

 

 

 

Z

[RDSWriter 5]

The Bulgarian hardware will work with the exception of the front latch. The Saiga 12 has a unique front latch mechanism that differs from AK rifles. I don't know if Oleg still has any, but you can check www.rusmilitary.com for the front latch part kit. Other than front latch, the Bulgarian rear mounting plate, pins, spring, rivets and stock will work.

[bayonet lug 1]

I think this thread should be pinned. Alot of very good info.

[Gibbles 23]

That's awsome, I finally found a Saiga 12 at the gun show on saturday, I'm going to do a Tromix style build, but I would love to do it like this!

[TX-Zen 287]

Thanks for the response RDS, I think I'll try and have a Saiga style latch fabricated if Oleg is out. I've emailed him but no response yet, would be great if he could scare one up. If he could I'm pretty sure I'd get the S12 metal folder he has out there for 199.00 EUR too

 

 

 

Z

[corbin 621]

Exceptional conversion!!

 

I didn't see any mention to the methoid used to remove the import markings. Were they welded over then ground down, or did you just sand/grind them out? Those import marks were the one thing keeping me from daring to do a conversion like this myself. I was considering the triangular stock, but yours looks great too.

 

Do those solid stocks come in OD green, do you know?

 

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

 

Corbin

[ernestmayhand 10]

Thanks for all your photos, and experience sKott. It helped me greatly to buck up and do it myself. I don't think I'm gonna ship most of my AK's off to other people to build. I see where the time comes in. But other than welding. It was awesome doing it myself.

 

I'm shipping my S-12 off to Elk River tommorrow morning!

 

Getting her welded, and riveted. Can't wait to get her back!

 

I can't wait to see the picts...

 

Is there chrome pics yet?