.308 Bullets?

[Paladin 37]

Hey reloaders, I hear the Mini-30 can run .308 bullets in X39 instead of the std. .310. Has anyone tried this in an AK? Would it be able to grab enough of the rifling?

 

The reason for the questions is Hornady has a MUCH better selection of boat tail match bullets available in .308 vs .311. I'm want to reload and looking to build the most accurate loads I can.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

You will want to check this out for yourself and do some research, and you're assuming your own risk here, but IMO...

 

The mini 30 (early models) were designed to run with 308 bullets and the barrel was designed for them. I'm not sure about later models, but that wasn't your question.

 

An AK runs 311(or 310) bullets and not 308. I would suggest that since they are undersized bullets and not oversized bullets that you could probably do your own experiment with maybe 10 handloads to see if it works in your gun. Each time you fire a round you MUST check the bbl to see that the bullet is not lodged in it (chances are it won't be). If it is, then you will need to use a rod and push it out from the back to the front (this might be a real PITA, so be forewarned). I've only had to clear bullets in pistols and 22's and they were trouble enough, so if you need to clear it on a rifle then you may invent some new four letter expressions. Chances are the bullet will clear just fine (I'm 99% sure).

 

If the bullets function in your gun, you might find that accuracy is poor. If you do find it is acceptable, then you have more options in bullets.

 

Your biggest problem is likely to be finding a set of sizing dies for an x39 case that size the neck to accept 308 bullets. Maybe someone makes x39 dies for 308 bullets (there's a strong possiblility that someone does/did to accomodate the early mini 30's). If all you have is a standard 311 die then chances are the bullets might drop right through the case neck prior to seating instead of needing to be pushed into place with the seating die.

 

All of the above said, people I know have had good luck with the winchester bullets in 311. Hunting bullets in 311 are a little harder to find, but out there.

 

And one other thing, your quest for boat tails implies that they might be longer heavier bullets. Be sure that you are still propelling a heavier bullet fast enough to reliably expand (if you plan on using it for deer), otherwise you might just have created something of no practical use.

Edited December 8, 2007 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff

[cscharlie 107]

Some of the US made factory loaded 7.63x39mm ammo used .308 diameter bullets that gave poor accuracy.

Doesn't the 303 Britt use .311 diameter bulletts? I was thinking that they can be used for 7.62x39mm subsonic loads. Wonder if that would help bullet selection for your project.....???????

[MD_Willington 11]

.303 does use .311...

[RedFalconBill 0]

The answer to your question is....it depends.

 

CIP chamber reamers for the 7.62x39 have a throat and leade design that is different than SAMMI specs.

 

You can use 0.308" match bullets in the 0.310" barreled 7.62x39 no problem and depending upon your throat/leade, it "might" give you better accuracy than a correctly sized bullet. Then again, it might not.

 

My question to you is this, what kind of accuracy are you expecting? What barrel length do you have? What barrel thickness do you have?

 

If you want consistently accurate ammo, try the Lapua Factory stuff.

 

The 7.62x39 has a narrow band of useful powders. From IMR-4227 on the fast side to H-335 on the slow side.

 

If you are looking for factory duplication loads, AA-1680 really can't be beat.

 

When I do reload 7.62x39 ammo (which is not often), this is my load.

 

Winchester Brass, trimmed to 1.520"

Winchester LR Primers

Hornady 123 gr. V-Max bullets

25.5gr AA-1680 powder.

Loaded to OAL of 2.195"

 

Mostly what I do is a little "Mekong Match" - style of reloading.

 

This is pulling the bullets from the Russian-made Wolf ammo, dumping the powder, loading 25.5 gr of AA-1680 powder, and then loading the 123gr. Hornady V-Max bullet.

 

Wolf cases are good dimensionally and the primers are ok, but the powder charge weight consistency is poor and the bullet QC is worse than Lake City.

[Paladin 37]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

My quest was to use a higher BC bullet for improved accuracy and, more importantly, increase the effective range. I plan on doing 3 gun next year to sharpen my skills and the only weak link in my battery are the rifle courses of fire out to 200-300 yards.

 

I think the Grendel is going to address the issue in one fell swoop. Although I still want to take the x39 as far as I can.

[Cryptkeeper 0]

i thought the 7.62 x 39 had the same bullet as the 308 7.62x 51 bullet? are they not the same??

[Paladin 37]

They, in general, are in the 150-175 grain range which is too heavy for the case capacity of the x39 and have roughly the same BC. You gain nothing from using them except a big, slow bullet with tremendous drop.

[RedFalconBill 0]

i thought the 7.62 x 39 had the same bullet as the 308 7.62x 51 bullet? are they not the same??

 

Nope, the Russian's use a 0.309" to 0.3105" diameter bullet and we use a 0.307" to 0.3082" diameter bullet.

[RedFalconBill 0]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

My quest was to use a higher BC bullet for improved accuracy and, more importantly, increase the effective range. I plan on doing 3 gun next year to sharpen my skills and the only weak link in my battery are the rifle courses of fire out to 200-300 yards.

 

I think the Grendel is going to address the issue in one fell swoop. Although I still want to take the x39 as far as I can.

 

If you are using an AK with a sight line ~ 1.95" above the bore, I would not worry too much about the targets until they are past 200 meters.

 

Zero the iron sights on your AK @ 25 meters and you will be about 3.5" to 4.0" low at 200 meters, about 12" low at 250 meters. At 250 meters, hold on the sholders and the bullet will be in the belly.

 

At ranges past 200 meters, the wind will be more of a factor then any BC a bullet might have, due to the limited case capacity of the 7.62x39.

 

Yes, the 6.5 Grendel will have less bullet drop AND less drift from wind, but your costs will go up, because of the ammo prices, unless Wolf ever gets the steel case practice ammo imported and then it will never be as cheap as the 7.62x39 or .223.

Edited December 16, 2007 by RedFalconBill

[Paladin 37]

You are absolutely correct. Damn, your smart-you remind me of me.

 

Insofar as ammo cost, it's an acceptable trade off to me. I was debating going to to 308 for the increased range or see if I could handload x39 for better performance.

 

with 6.5G I get the best of both worlds, light recoil of the x39 with the long range performance of the .308.

 

6.5G now costs the same as .308 and with the (hopefully) steel cased Wolf coming then it will be even more viable.