Saiga .308 as a sniper/long range rifle

[Capt. Ferguson 0]

Research Simo Hayha-White Death, if you want to know something about guerilla sniping and the equipment that he used. He has a kill total that absolutely DWARFS any known U.S. sniper, period. You might also look at Sepp Allerbergers biograpy- Sniper on the Eastern Front. It's the story of Germanys' second most highly decorated sniper on their most vicious battlefront. His kill total is in the hundreds...... Look at the equipment that he used and the distances and tactics etc....

 

Then apply that new information to what "sniper" truly means.

[NY-proletariat 0]

Not to take anything away from the accomplishmnets of those two snipers,but they had it easier in some ways than the GS does today. While their equipment is considered down right crude compared to anything today, their targets and their environment was easier to survive in. The commo and road system in their areas were crude or non-existant. The army they both fought was made up of political prisoners forced to fight (even without weapons) for a communist dictatorship who killed as many or more of their own men than their enemies. The Soviet political commisars killed anyone who didn't march forward (even without weapons) to fight the Germans or Finns. So many weren't professional soldiers who would've given those snipers a run for their money if they encountered them. Today's military(especially ours who the GS would be up against) is made up of trained people who have the latest in technology in commo,rifles, ammo,support,air support and artillery on-call,clothing,infrared scopes,and other assorted goodies that are paid for by running the gov't printing presses day and night. The GS has only whatever his meager savings (all he has left after paying for all the socialist income taxes to pay for the very rope they'll use to hang him with!) or their maxed out credit card can buy. Then he has to spend money on lots of ammo to practice with his meager equipment in between double and triple shifts at work to help pay for it all. No resupply,no airsupport,no rear base for R&R, no medical staff or Medivac,and probably very little moral support from his neighbors. (they'll be too scared to say or do anything to help for fear that the gov't will cut off their cable TV or credit card account so they can keep on buying trinkets from China or finding out what is the latest on Brittany Spears and her BS antics!) Add to that , the latest in directional radar or sensors that can locate where your shot comes from enables the Gestapo to locate and destroy you even faster. So you'd have to have one hell of a set of stainless steel balls the size of beachballs to go up against the behemoth of the US gov't. But then again, that's what the gov't is counting on! Those that do fight back will be squashed by the gov't controlled press which can do even more damage than the gov't bullets. So it would essentially be a suicide mission which no would want to do except Muslims who aren't afraid to go to their god killing infidels. So I guess GunnyR is right. You must be prepared to die before you go off and do anything like fighting a guerilla war against a major super power....like our fore-fathers did!

[Capt. Ferguson 0]

It is a given that you must be prepared to die-the ballistic curve runs both ways! However.....consider that the US military is a shell of what it once was. From WWII through the 90's it was Pentagon policy that the US military would be able to fight a 2.5 front war- Meaning an Atlantic and Pacific war- just like WWII AND a 1/2 war meaning some kind of minor action in someplace like South America etc.....

 

At present our military can BARELY keep the lid on what would have been classified as a 1/2 war! Techo crap is great but it take BOOTS ON THE GROUND to HOLD GROUND! Quite frankly, we don't have the boots anymore! In a "gun war"....we would be facing conscripts because our current active duty military is nowhere near large enough to get the job done. As an example-Iraq has about 27 million people in it.....so does the SINGLE STATE of Texas! Where exactly are they going to get the "boots" to control the other 49 states??????

 

In Iraq we are facing a fanatical enemy in some cases....one with only modest technological expertise and most have never had any formal military experience. Contrast that with a potential pool of guerillas in this country....many highly educated in technological fields-business people, electricians, plumbers, computer techs, engineers and architects, heavy equipment operators, bloggers and independent "newspaper"/pamphleteers-with First World military and combat experience....Who do you think has more disposable income the average Iraqi or the average American Patriot? It's a friggen nightmare!

 

Can you imagine the number of potential saboteurs that are embedded in the current military ranks? There are still many true patriots in the ranks of our military to whom the "Just following Orders" routine won't cut it! There is no way they will have enough bodies to protect every piece of infrastructure, every politician, every judge, every police chief or swat team members families, every power company worker, every water plant guy, refinery worker, etc......no way in hell.

 

Rebellion would not be easy, not by far, but I don't think they can get it done quite honestly. Nobody has come up with a workable war fighting plan for 4th generation warfare....except maybe genocide......

Edited January 7, 2008 by Capt. Ferguson

[randomchance 0]

And that's where the 'private' militaries come in. Blackwater and other mercenary 'companies' - just like Hitler's SS blackshirts. Corporate armies with no real loyalties other than to themselves with access to military hardware is very worrisome. Wouldn't it be unfortunate if one of these companies 'just happened to go rouge' and started terrorizing citizens. Of course the government would officially condemn it - kinda like they 'officially' condemned the Iran contras back in the 80's (while supplying them behind everyone's back). You really don't have to defeat the population, just make them afraid and they'll turn their neighbors in and do the work for you. Create the artificial divisions and use fear to perpetuate them and the people won't unite. The current state of our country is very scary with the 'rights grabbers' jockeying amongst themselves for the next power grab, the rise of private armies, the never-ending war on terror, and private bankers (i.e. the Fed, European Central Bank, Bank of England, Bundesbank, International Monetary Fund and World Bank, and the Bank of International Settlements) pulling the strings in this puppet show by manipulating money supplies all over the world. It would be interesting to watch from the outside or look back on in historical perspective - but we won't have that luxury since we're living in it now. We have to think about things like guerilla tactics in order to stay ready because when (not if) it happens we won't be given time to prepare...

 

As I tell people that think I'm a nut job - you may find me paranoid, but you won't find me helpless!

Edited January 8, 2008 by Dr. What

[NY-proletariat 0]

Paranoid is a word that the helpless like to give to those of us who aren't helpless! It makes them feel morally and intellectually superior while ridiculing us at the same time. Only when the Gestapo come for them(people like this never think the Gestapo will come for them, only people like us who they rat out!), they suddenly realize they were wrong but ony too late! Like I say to all those who call me paranoid...."Why should I be paranoid?"....I have guns! The sexual intellectuals(f#$%king know-it-alls!) alaways rely upon the very state that will come to exterminate them for their protection from "people like us". Too bad for them.

 

 

Private armies are going to be the new rage as they'll fight anywhere, anytime and anyone as long they get paid! It will probably be made up of the very foreigners or people like them who we're now trying to "subjugate" now! This way they won't have any emotional attachment to us like our own troops would. Although I'm sure many of our own troops wouldn't think twice on pulling the trigger on us because they know which side their bread is buttered on. Many don't even know about the constitution or how to spell the word or even what the oath is they took to get into the service.

 

 

So bone up on your sniping skills boys....because you might be using them sometime in the near future.....no matter who the president is. (unless it's Ron Paul, then we'll be using them to fight off all of the people who got laid off from their useless gov't jobs or had their welfare or foreign aid checks canceled who now want to steal directly from us rather than wait for the gov't to do it for them!)

[paprotective 362]

I 'feel' you about the 'boot on the ground' theory. A lot of 'kids' ask my opinion about joining up some branch or another. I tell them to wait till peace time (whatever that is).

 

If you go for a walk with knowlege of not returning and not having a 'family' to go back to when the WAR is over. Life doesn't mean a whole lot to you. You don't even miss Mc'd's food.

 

When WWII was around. I don't think some of these SNIPERS had a place to go back to and combine that with DRIVE to kill the adversary that TOOK IT ALL AWAY and youv'e got PURE motivation. That and a little talent and PATIENCE and youv'e got a very good SNIPER.

 

Again, my opinion.

 

"Anyone whom threatens my exsistence, or whom erased my past, has no future."

[Azrial 1,091]

I am not sure what a lot of these posts have to do with the viability of the AK platform as a serious long range precision shooting system. But I am sure of one thing.

 

I hate lying, Halo3 trained, never been anywhere or did anything would be anarchists. In a real police state people do not publish their plans to attack the government on the Internet. Malcontents who can't hold down a job a Burger King who would have you believe that they can create a better system then the founding Fathers.

 

My country has its flaws and among them are groups that would strip us of our liberties, but I will stay inside the governmental system that thus far has been proven the best ever devised by man.

 

I could care less who this pisses off. I am all for harmony and support the rights of others to have alternative viewpoints, but that pretty much ends at talk of murder and treason.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Azrial

[SOPMOD 254]

What a load a wannabesniper crapola.

 

Any rifle that shoots under 3" is a a rack grade military rifle and can hit a military silhouette target at 500M rifles that get 1MOA or 1/2 MOA are merely reducing the variables for critical shots where target must be eliminated on the first shot like hard to aquire military leaders and hostage takers who might start executing hostages but in warfare and big game hunting 2-3MOA rifles do most of the killing and put most of the meat on the table worldwide.

 

Before the M16A2 there were Marines qualifying "Expert" at 500M with rifles that would have been damned lucky to hold 3 MOA and the same could hold true for M14s and Garands as well.

 

I could hit the 10" gong at 500M with my first Saiga 90% of the time once I got a scope and mount that would hold zero and the one I am working on now has a better crown and tighter headspace so we will see just what it will do this weekend and I for all the world think it will be in the 2" or under category which is right up there with an SVD which consequently is the killingest "Sniper Rifle" currently in service with any modern army and it's definately not a SUB-MOA weapon.

 

Unless you are planning on assassinating high level terrorist leaders that rarely expose themselves for a shot or are rescuing hostages kidnapped by some armed maniac in a highrise office building you would have a hard time justifying spending an extra $2000 on an infinitely more fragile and less reliable rifle when you could have a Saiga(or VEPR) that will hit minute of badguy as far as the naked eye can see and put meat on the table under the worst conditions for decades to come.

[jakemccoy 0]

Azrial,

 

Since you look up to our founding fathers, note that our founding fathers opposed a corrupt government to create this great nation. Don't confuse our founding fathers with the current yahoos running this country.

 

-Jake

Edited January 9, 2008 by jakemccoy

[Capt. Ferguson 0]

Azrial, you cannot seriously believe that the way in which this country is currently governed is even close to what the Founders intended? Again, read some history- it is patently clear to anyone with a 4th grade education that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton would not recognize what this country has become.

 

I cannot even begin to explain the many ways in which the Constitution has been raped and pillaged over the past two centuries. Just please start with my example above about the expansion of the voting franchise. It is damn clear that what I said is exactly correct- White, male, educated, property owners, PERIOD. Then look at who votes and tell me with a straight face that what we have now is what was intended ? Tell me where the historical anecdotes regarding Fascism and Communism that I used earlier are incorrect? That Semo Hayaah and Sepp Allerberger didn't do what history shows they did.

 

BTW, I dunno what your accomplishments in life are, I listed some of mine above, but I've never played a game of Halo and the small office I run employs 6 people and my gross receipts are in excess of 7 million dollars-with a 15 year track record.....Now, I'm not Donald Trump by any means but I'm not doing bad for the son of a dirt farmer and the first in his extended family to go to college.....a long damn way from McDonalds, buddy! My W2 shows almost 4 times what the average two person working family in this country makes and my wife stays at home with our kids!

 

Now, I will agree that there has been plenty of thread drift here but the very nature of the topic invites that. When somebody posts about the use of a weapon for "guerilla sniping" the inevitable question of What guerilla with what agenda is going to come up and is pretty tough to just ignore. I did state much earlier in the thread my appraisal of the weapon for that purpose, it should work for the limited purpose as outlined.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Capt. Ferguson

[G O B 3,516]

The best way to make shure we never need to use a rifle to protect our freedom, is to HAVE a rifle and know how to use it.

If we want to ensure that we will NEED to use a rifle to protect our freedom, we need only to become unarmed!

[NY-proletariat 0]

I am not sure what a lot of these posts have to do with the viability of the AK platform as a serious long range precision

shooting system.

 

 

 

(Why would you even want a "LONG RANGE PRECISION RIFLE or talk about one if long range killing isn't your cup of tea? AK or non-AK?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I am sure of one thing.

I hate lying, Halo3 trained, never been anywhere or did anything would be anarchists. In a real police state people do not publish their plans to attack the government on the Internet. Malcontents who can't hold down a job a Burger King who want to have you believe that they can create a better system them then the founding Fathers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(You hate would be anarchists? I guess you hate your own heritage because you're spouting off exactly what the British and their "LOYALIST TORIES" were saying over 220 years ago! That's why the founders went to war against the "best know system" of gov't in their day! Besides, the system the founding fathers put into place has been gone for almost 100 years now. When this gov't ended the constitutionaly mandated minting of gold and silver for its currency and gave us phoney money and the federal reserve, it ceased being a constitutional republic. It now poses as one while it shoves socialism down your throat daily. As a matter of fact, you're so far into it now that you can't even tell when you're being sheered by the powers that be. !)

 

 

 

So lighten up and educate yourself a little more before you go and give us the "star spangled banner" version of the drivel you were taught in the gov't run "public school system(gov't indoctrination centers) or get everyday watching FOX news!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My country has its flaws and among them are groups that would strip us of our liberties, but I will stay inside the governmental system that thus far has been proven the best ever devised by man.

 

I could care less who this pisses off. I am all for harmony and support the rights of others to have alternative viewpoints, but that pretty much ends at talk of murder and treason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Your country is way past having flaws. Groups have stripped you of your liberties long ago while you slept and still are while you're awake!. Maybe you should do some studying and find out how bad rather than relying on your elected leaders to tell you or the their water carrying news boys and girls? You sound like a liberal. We can have alterante view points.....as long as they coincide with yours. If not we're all lying wannabe anarchists who can't hold a job. I guess you know what we all do for work and how much we make. It sounds like you don't make to much or have a decent job or you wouldn't be so angry at others for having a different(enlightened) view point from your own.!)

 

 

 

As for murder and treason.....gov't's have the corner on the market. Gov't's have killed more of their own people(including our own gov't) than any other form of killing. The last century was the tops in history with gov't's killing over 200 million of their own people for political expediency. Our gov't has been up to its supposed "good guy" neck in killing other country's leaders through assassinations and coups all for our own good!(or so they tell us). We've interned in concentration camps, our own citizens and many thousands died because of it. We've legalized the murder of over 60 million children for political and financial expediency here at home through abortion with 1-2 million more each year! We've killed so many that now we have to import illegal aliens to make up for all the lost taxes that these 60 million would've paid into the system to support all the unconstitutional socialist programs this gov't shoves down our throats by point of a gun !!)

Edited January 10, 2008 by NY-proletariat

[loki0629 55]

Azrial is right. If this country was in fact a true police state anyone who even viewed this thread would have been visited and had a black bag pulled over their head.

 

I think he and I are in agreement in that if you guys think things are bad here, then you need to really go somewhere where things are really bad. Believe it or not, there are places in the world where the anarchy you wish to happen here is already in place. Spend some time in those places, come back and see if you still want it to happen here. Internet visits or research doesn't count.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

As for murder and treason.....gov't's have the corner on the market. Gov't's have killed more of their own people(including our own gov't) than any other form of killing. The last century was the tops in history with gov't's killing over 200 million of their own people for political expediency. Our gov't has been up to its supposed "good guy" neck in killing other country's leaders through assassinations and coups all for our own good!(or so they tell us). We've interned in concentration camps, our own citizens and many thousands died because of it. We've legalized the murder of over 60 million children for political and financial expediency here at home through abortion with 1-2 million more each year! We've killed so many that now we have to import illegal aliens to make up for all the lost taxes that these 60 million would've paid into the system to support all the unconstitutional socialist programs this gov't shoves down our throats by point of a gun !!)

 

Actually, abortion is one of the reasons crime dropped in the 90s instead of increased like the 80s. After Roe vs. Wade, many low income and too-young women had abortions of children who would have grown up poverty-stricken and with shoddy parenting. These children would have been 17 y/o or younger in 90, and 23y/o and younger in 95. The highest crime rate among people in America is late teens, early 20s. Because many of the same kids that would have been criminals were instead aborted, crime rates dropped. We don't have to import illegal aliens to make up for the free-loaders and criminals which would have come about if the young, irresponsible and destitute single mothers had gone through with the pregnancy instead of having an abortion. Illegals come here to work for non-taxed money and do so for a dollar or two below what a Citizen would, but the citizen pays 30% or more in taxes and takes home less.

 

I don't like to think that innocent life is being taken in the womb but maybe in most cases it's for the better.

[randomchance 0]

Azrial is right. If this country was in fact a true police state anyone who even viewed this thread would have been visited and had a black bag pulled over their head.

 

I think he and I are in agreement in that if you guys think things are bad here, then you need to really go somewhere where things are really bad. Believe it or not, there are places in the world where the anarchy you wish to happen here is already in place. Spend some time in those places, come back and see if you still want it to happen here. Internet visits or research doesn't count.

 

 

True, its really not bad here yet. But things are being put in place that could very quickly make things very bad here. Check out the text HR 1955 - The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 for an idea of how they are trying to invent a reason/way to police the internet and get people to turn each other in. Or check out this article on the 'slight' modification to the Defense Authorization Bill in 2006 that no longer requires the president respect either the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 or the Insurrection Act of 1807. Also there's the numerous executive orders signed by the current and former presidents that authorize the declaration of martial law for relatively minor things, as well as seizure of private property by the government, conscription and internment of individuals, and other such things.

 

No, we're not there yet and for now America is a pretty good place to live - I've been to several European and Asian countries and there's nowhere else I'd want to live. But there are also a lot of dark clouds gathering on the horizon. Between the government and the corporations that control it I think we may see some things in our lifetimes that we thought could never happen here. I pray that I'm wrong but I'm not gonna let that stop me from at least considering what could happen if I'm right.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Dr. What

[Paladin 37]

This thread is all over the place! So I guess it's ok for me to chime in with yet another opinion.

 

I guess when I think of a GS situation I'm thinking more along the lines of a SHTF (man-made or natural) that causes a break down in social order with local areas of anarchy. We would be sniping the zombies that would be taking advantage of the chaos, not the local National Guard!

Or at worst, an invasion of foreign forces (such as the current invasion along our Southern border )

 

While our government has done, and is doing some shitty things, I still believe that it's the best system developed so far. I have my ideas to improve it-strong 3rd party for instance to get away from the "us vs. them" mentality. Maybe elect someone like Ron Paul. But can you imagine some gross violation of the constitution not being challenged? Do you really think that if millions of people protested it we would all be marched off to camps? I know it's more of a little here and a little there kind of erosion, but people are fighting back through the system.

 

But actually sniping at our own troops? I don't see it any more than I see our troops conducting any wholesale assaults on the citizens. We have alot of citizens that are former military (not to mention we're armed to the teeth compared to most societies) and the military has alot fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc, etc. that are citizens. I don't think it is in our national mindset to have a widespread crackdown/rebellion of the scale that's being discussed.

 

Before anyone says I should study history, I have. I have multiple degrees with multiple majors and I run my own company. I have a clue.

 

Our voting system is far from perfect, and to a certain extent I agree that it sucks that an uneducated, unemployed, crack head punk has an equal vote to me. But the problem lies in how do you qualify who is worthy? Who gets to make that decision? We know from history that those in power make the rules to keep themselves in power. I came from a poor family, and now I do fairly well. I would not have had the opportunity to excel through hard work, brains and determination in a system that kept me down because my family was not a connected family of means.

 

The abortion thing is religion talking, and I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd AND the 1st Amendments. In fact, I support them all, not just the ones that suit me.

[G O B 3,516]

America is the BEST and FREEST country on earth. We are not even living in anywhere the worst economic or socilally disordered times. Even in this current recession TIMES ARE GOOD.

 

Getting back on thread - How good do you shoot ? With iron sights I can get 5 of 5 in a 9' paper plate at 200yds with my old 03-A3,(or at least I could when my eyes were younger). With the S-.308 and old eyes I get 20 of 20 in a man sized target at 100yds. Use the right tool for the job, and you'r skills. Now I need to get some decent glass on the Saiga.

[NY-proletariat 0]

Azrial is right. If this country was in fact a true police state anyone who even viewed this thread would have been visited and had a black bag pulled over their head.

 

I think he and I are in agreement in that if you guys think things are bad here, then you need to really go somewhere where things are really bad. Believe it or not, there are places in the world where the anarchy you wish to happen here is already in place. Spend some time in those places, come back and see if you still want it to happen here. Internet visits or research doesn't count.

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously you didn't read the news lately. A SWAT team broke into a family's home this week and held everyone at gunpoint. There crime: They didn't take their son to the ER when he fell and hit his head. His father chose to go against some Paramedic's recommendation and so some judge sent the Gestapo in with battering rams and machine guns! When the wife asked the SWAT team about their constitutional rights....they were told by the SWAT...."that's only in the movies"!! There's numerous violations like these that take place everyday and most people don't even bat an eye. It'

s even more prevalent since 9/11 and no one seems to notice or even care as they're too afraid or too busy working to pay their huge taxes.

 

 

I've been to some Latin American countries and they ain't pretty, but that doesn't make what this gov't does now in the name of the "Public's Safety" right. Heck....even the former Soviet Unon pays a flat tax of only 13%!! Iraqis get to pay a measely 10% flat tax and they get to own automatic weapons upto 50 cal. without any permit or license(you know....those reasonable gun laws we have here!). Gee.....you mean all we have to do is blow up some troops or snipe at a few and we get a flat tax of 10% and get to own automatic weapons with no permits? ................Gee....where do I sign up?

 

 

 

 

G.O.B. You're 03A3 will get the job done and will put your man down when hit. And is quick to reload with the 5 round clips with a little practice. I know someone who uses one and a 1911 Swiss rifle to score Master Class rifleman in CMP shoots. Imagine using almost 100 year old rifles and scoring near perfect scores of 498-499??? I wish I was just a patch on this guy's shooting jacket! It's the nut behind the butt!

 

 

 

 

As far as religion talking on the abortion issue.....If a politician will sell out an innocent unborn baby....he or she won't even think twice about selling out your gun rights. If you don't believe me check out the gun rights voting records of most pro-abortion candidates and see. Almost to a tee...they're either anti-gun or for "reasonable gun laws" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! An oxymoron if I ever heard one! Many think the so called evil Dems are anti gun.....but many of the horrible bans and laws we have on the books today were put in place by so called conservatives like Bush and Reagan!

Edited January 11, 2008 by NY-proletariat

[Azrial 1,091]

Azrial,

Since you look up to our founding fathers, note that our founding fathers opposed a corrupt government to create this great nation. Don't confuse our founding fathers with the current yahoos running this country. -Jake

Jake, Have no doubt I am not happy with the way some things are being done now myself. But, I am far more comfortable seeking change inside the system we have not, via legal methods, then I am with the plan of a guy that talks about treason on the WWW.

 

Say what you want about the "yahoos running this country" but they were elected by yahoos like you and me. I intend to see whoever replaces them come into office the same way, because that it how America works.

 

For those that say they don't bother to vote, shut the hell up! What difference does it make what you think?

[jakemccoy 0]

Nothing's wrong. The economy is great. Debt is good. The dollar is strong enough. Inflation is not so bad. The Federal Reserve has your best interest in mind. The police are here to protect you. You don't really need to be armed. There's nothing to worry about. Relax. Go back to sleep.

 

============

 

Screw that! I'll stay awake, thank you.

Edited January 11, 2008 by jakemccoy

[jakemccoy 0]

Edited January 11, 2008 by jakemccoy

[Azrial 1,091]

Azrial, you cannot seriously believe that the way in which this country is currently governed is even close to what the Founders intended? Again, read some history- it is patently clear to anyone with a 4th grade education that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton would not recognize what this country has become. ....White, male, educated, property owners, PERIOD......Tell me where the historical anecdotes regarding Fascism and Communism that I used earlier are incorrect? That Semo Hayaah and Sepp Allerberger didn't do what history shows they did......BTW, I dunno what your accomplishments in life are, I listed some of.........my gross receipts are in excess of 7 million dollars-with a 15 year track record.......When somebody posts about the use of a weapon for "guerilla sniping".......

 

Captain, I have no debate, either way, about the accuracy of your antidotes, nor do I doubt that anyone alive in the late 1700's would recognize the country that we live in today, which seems a little obvious, don't you think? I have only mild interest in the exploits of an Austrian conscript of WWII, but apparently I do assign a little less weight to Nazi Propaganda then you do. I have no idea who "Semo Hayaah" is supposed to be!

 

I also find it difficult to find value in the opinions of a poster whose knowledge on subject of "guerilla sniping" does not cover the correct spelling of the word guerrilla and stand by my original assessment that his only training was a video game, at best. The logic that a discussion of sniper weapons will inevitably drift towards homicide and domestic terrorism is as valid as the case for a thread about ski masks always becoming a plan for robbing liquor stores.

 

As a matter of fact I am not sure what any of this has to do with the subjects of the AK as a viable sniper platform or the subject of treason. I do agree that we have problems in this country, but also believe that we can work within the present system to correct them. I am committed to that idea.

 

There is a quote by Aldous Leonard Huxley that comes to mind, "The thin and precarious crust of decency is all that separates any civilization, however impressive, from the hell of anarchy or systematic tyranny which lie in wait beneath the surface."

 

Championing some dimwitted malcontent's efforts to destroy that thin crust is lunacy. Only the most simplistic of minds thinks that the world would sit patently while the US devolved into chaos.

 

I have never grossed 7 million, but I have dismantled several illegal enterprises that dwarf that. I have also locked up two PhD's, along with a slew of other otherwise intelligent fellows that defied me to be able to prove their criminal culpability.

 

W2's at 20 paces, you might be surprised. Thanks for reading!

[Azrial 1,091]

The best way to make shure we never need to use a rifle to protect our freedom, is to HAVE a rifle and know how to use it. If we want to ensure that we will NEED to use a rifle to protect our freedom, we need only to become unarmed!

I have no problem with either of these statements. I believe that we should be a nation of many skilled riflemen and I fully understand the reason for the Second Admenment.

 

I just to not believe that a rifle should replace the voting box as the primary instrument for social change in this country.

[Azrial 1,091]

A bunch of gibberish and misspelled hyperbole deleted.

 

Like I said anyone that thinks that they can destroy the greatest nation on Earth by theorizing rebellion on the Internet is an idiot. If we actually lived under a government that exercised the rigid and repressive controls you imagine here you could and would be rounded up in about 30 minutes. You must either doubt your own assessment of the freedom that still exists here in America or be stupid for making the public statements that you have.

 

No sir, I have no interest in long range murder and I own several precision rifles and I am a Whitefeather Graduate. I also understand the difference between killing and murder.

 

Frankly, I doubt that a fellow like yourself should be questioning my intellect.

[Azrial 1,091]

Azrial is right. If this country was in fact a true police state anyone who even viewed this thread would have been visited and had a black bag pulled over their head.

 

I think he and I are in agreement in that if you guys think things are bad here, then you need to really go somewhere where things are really bad. Believe it or not, there are places in the world where the anarchy you wish to happen here is already in place. Spend some time in those places, come back and see if you still want it to happen here. Internet visits or research doesn't count.

 

We are in complete agreement.

[Azrial 1,091]

This thread is all over the place! So I guess it's ok for me to chime in with yet another opinion....

A well written essay! Like you I do not see firing on American troops or police as a viable solution to the problems we face in the country. There is a huge amount that we can do within the system to prevent that system from ever arriving.

 

How many here, that claim that they love the Bill of Rights, and revere the Second Amendment as the right that protects all the rest, has given $100 this year to it's defense?

 

But many here have bragged of their wealth and spoke of killing our fellow Americans. That is pretty damn sad.

[Azrial 1,091]

.......No, we're not there yet and for now America is a pretty good place to live - I've been to several European and Asian countries and there's nowhere else I'd want to live. But there are also a lot of dark clouds gathering on the horizon. Between the government and the corporations that control it I think we may see some things in our lifetimes that we thought could never happen here. I pray that I'm wrong but I'm not gonna let that stop me from at least considering what could happen if I'm right.

 

Agreed! Now is the time to take action to protect what we hold dear about this country, while the mechanism that the Founding Fathers put in place still functions.

[Motopilot1 37]

this thread is everywhere just a few points i would like to touch on im kind of confused it sounds almost like some of you were talking about rebellion against our own country i was thinking more along the lines of red dawn another country invades natural desaster etc but the thought that our own military will turn on us and we have to rebell makes you sound stupid do you honestly think out military guys are going to attack their own country put their neighbors in internment camps come on. i also heard private military contractors becoming a problem i guess its a good thing that blackwater is the largest PMC and they are based out of the US built from mostly ex military so again i really dont see a threat. also as for the country falling apart this country has its share of problems but as you saw when 9-11 came the country comes together rather quickly so if there was a major event i really dont think things would deteriorate to the level of putting citizens in internment camps if the us decided to turn into NAZI germany well then god help us all. but i dont see that happening

[Azrial 1,091]

[jakemccoy 0]

Japanese American internment camps were an attack on Americans during WWII. Trust that if you were one of those Japanese Americans, you would have felt attacked.

 

What's crazy to me is that people who are uninformed get belligerent and continue to remain uninformed on purpose.