922r - Is my Dealer Wrong!?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I really wish all you guys would quit writing the BATF and asking for rulings! They are a regulatory agency and as such will only wind up giving us more regulations.

 

I am also a ham and we learned years ago not to constantly ask the FCC for opinions and rulings. Please do not learn this lesson for all gun owners the hard way.

 

I am sure that most of you are well meaning. However, how would you like to be the jackass whose name is spread all over the Internet by asking for a new opinion that ends up hurting our rights and hobby?

A big damned PLUS ONE to that bro!! And you too FLTF3!

 

All the talk that takes up the most bandwidth on every gun forum dealing with imported military type weapons, is about 922R compliance.

I have been a member of most all the popular AK forums for years and the same topics come up all the time. The same questions get asked and the same answers given, based on the soupbowl letters and what our current interpretations of these sometimes VAGUE laws are really saying. All this time I have never seen anyone or heard of anyone, on any of these forums, or in the news, who was arrested and tried for a 922R violation. That's not to say that no one has been charged with anything, there are a few documented cases that have been around, but I don't think there have been any, or at least ENOUGH actual convictions to support all the widespread paranoia surrounding these vague laws. Honestly I think the government wants the people to police themselves to a certain extent and purposefully wrote the laws like they are to allow us to do that. It's about like my view of the Holy Bible and the Ten Commandments, it was put there to set some strict "guidelines" to keep the majority of people in check. I've never seen anyone actually burn in hell for breaking these laws in the Bible but I can tell you this, without them the ancient world as well as the modern world would have been filled with more chaos! If the govt. tried to write the gun laws much more detailed and strict, they might not actually pass. All these people who get a new gun, lots of times their first AK type weapon, and go on a public forum hoping to get peace of mind with their new "EVIL ASSAULT WEAPON", go all out to try and fully understand these laws. There's nothing wrong with that, I did the same thing when I got my first Mak-90 and converted it to PG.

The problem is too damned many of them want to skimp out and take shortcuts. They want to do as little as humanly possible to get their gun to comply, the bare minimum. Some are so damned lazy they want to just pop in a us made mag and be legal, and take no other precautions to be sure. Well if you are one of these people, and you want an imported military type weapon, then you need to just settle for exactly what the US Customs Dept says is ok for you (this type of person) to own. That's why they make import laws, to cover all the bases. That means you need to be happy with a semi auto shotgun that only takes 5 rd mags and a rifle that will only use 10 rd mags...very simple. If you want more than that then it's time to get off your ass and convert the gun like it is designed to function and get rid of ALL the sport features. Do like we others have done and go overboard with compliance parts and sleep good every night knowing full well we are legal without having to be spoon fed by the feds to be sure our barely compliant weapons are not going to get us in trouble.

 

Bottom line and I'm off my soapbox....STOP WRITING LETTERS!! You either want a "sporterized" gun or a true military type weapon. Make up your mind and do what it takes to be sure you have more than enough parts to make it compliant, without depending on mags.

For example...my Saiga .223 has 7 compliance parts (without a US mag in there).

Stock

PG

US AK HGs

FCG (3)

US made brake

 

Now if I put a US made follower and floorplate in I have 9.

 

No worries...feels so nice!

Edited December 30, 2007 by Cobra 76 two

[Etek 32]

It seems that so far as 922r is concerned paranoia abounds. Probably with good cause due to BATFE past excesses.

 

922r prevented manufacturers from making unimportable firearmd from imported parts. Period.

When folks started ASSEMBLING firearms from imported parts the 922r question came up and since they were ACTUALLY ASSEMBLING firearms it was indeed a good idea to use no more than 10 imported parts.

 

We're not talking about ASSEMBLY we are talking about REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT parts.

 

Now if you are a lawyer and can cite Case Law that says putting a magazine in a firearm or taking a broken Russian stock off and replacing it with a Russian stock is assembly please let me know.

REAL Lawyers only now, and please don't cite what some blowhard from BATFE 'cited' in a letter in 2003. That letter is just an opinion and is NOT case law. The BATFE takes their best guess and suddenly everyone freaks out and makes sure they have 4 or 5 or fill in the blanks # of US parts.

The US replacement parts folks LOVE this and why not? Are THEY going to test 922r? Not on your life as now they have a $ making niche.

 

But I don't blame anyone for making sure they're 922r compliant. Beats jail if I'm wrong.

[HateTheSnow 29]

Spend some time and read both of these documents as they apply to the discussion here:

 

GCA 1968 - Before you drill down to 922® and 925(d)(3), be sure to read 922(a)(1) at the very top

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

 

CFR 27 478.39

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx...7cfr478_07.html

[Azrial 1,091]

Etak, I understand that you have your opinion and want to express it here. Well noted my friend. But what difference does it make if we agree with you or not? Here is the only way for you to prove your point.

 

Build your rifle or shotgun anyway you like, from what you have said I assume that it will not meet the requirements of 922R. No need right?

 

Then get a buddy with a video camera and take your new non-complaint firearm down to the local BATF office. Call ahead so you don't get shot!

 

Not show the BATF agents your gun, tell then it is not 922R complaint and dare them to do any thing about it. Call their damn bluff! You go boy!

 

When they back down and refuse to arrest you or to confiscate your firearm you will have all the proof you need! Post your trophy video on UTube and you will be famous and everyone will know that you are right! Hell yeah!

 

On the other hand if it does not go quite that way have your buddy post the video for you, should be good for a laugh.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Azrial

[tman2007sc 0]

Etak, I understand that you have your opinion and want to express it here. Well noted my friend. But what difference does it make if we agree with you or not? Here is the only way for you to prove your point.

 

Build your rifle or shotgun anyway you like, from what you have said I assume that it will not meet the requirements of 922R. No need right?

 

Then get a buddy with a video camera and take your new non-complaint firearm down to the local BATF office. Call ahead so you don't get shot!

 

Not show the BATF agents your gun, tell then it is not 922R complaint and dare them to do any thing about it. Call their damn bluff! You go boy!

 

When they back down and refuse to arrest you or to confiscate your firearm you will have all the proof you need! Post your trophy video on UTube and you will be famous and everyone will know that you are right! Hell yeah!

 

On the other hand if it does not go quite that way have your buddy post the video for you, should be good for a laugh.

 

 

I do not think the local offices even keep up with that stuff and won't care.

[Caspian 32]

I may have missed it. Where in 922r does it specifically spell out anything above 5 rounds is a no-no?

 

Thanks

Caspian

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I may have missed it. Where in 922r does it specifically spell out anything above 5 rounds is a no-no?

 

Thanks

Caspian

That's just the point Caspian. There are a lot of things that are not totally spelled out. The less we make them spell out the better. It is a fact however that the shotguns I am referring to on this particular forum are Saigas. It's also a FACT that they are only imported with 5 round mags, not the 8 rdrs that are a factory option. If they won't allow them to be imported then you tell me why.

 

Whether it's legal or not to use an unmodded S-12 with domestic >5 rd mags wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point was it is much better IMO not to rely on just a magazine to stay compliant with hi caps. If you make sure by having more than enough parts you are better off just in case you run into someone who doesn't know the laws.

[Azrial 1,091]

I do not think the local offices even keep up with that stuff and won't care.

You could well be right! Care to find out and report back to the group? Be sure and carry your camera man!

[HateTheSnow 29]

I do not think the local offices even keep up with that stuff and won't care.

You could well be right! Care to find out and report back to the group? Be sure and carry your camera man!

 

Priorities change all the time!

 

These guys march to the beat of somebody else's drum, just like most of us do while we're at work. Should things change in the not so distant future, it's not out of the realm of possibilities for us to see BATFE officials conducting inspections at our local ranges. And yeah, if something like that happens, I think they'll know what does and doesn't pass muster...and if in doubt, I'll bet they confiscate and hold until your weapon until proven otherwise.