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Last Thursday, I took my Saiga to the range as I usually do. This time, however, the gun started jamming. It would jam once or twice per magazine. What's happening is that the shell is pointing up too high at the top of the magazine and when the bolt comes forward, the crimped end of the shell snags on the top of the chamber.

 

I figured that the gun was just dirty, making the bolt sluggish and unable to force the shell into the chamber. I cleaned the gun thoroughly, though, including the gas tube and piston. Today I shot the gun and it's still happening! Could it have something to do with leaving the magazines loaded all the time?

 

If you look into the ejection port of your shotgun, look at the top of the chamber. There is a metal prong that sticks out. It is about a half inch long and a quarter inch wide. That is where my shells are hanging up. What does that prong do? Does it help lock the bolt in? What if I filed on it to make it not catch the shells and jam?

 

I need help with this. I'm afraid to take the gun on-duty with me now 'cause if it jams in a gunfight, well you know...

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This is shutter I suppose. Sime people just remove it having similar problems with jams. The only disadvantage is dirt coming into the rifle through this big hole. But on another hand - it's Kalashnikov - it was developed for working in dirt. I still have shutter installed and all the jams I had was result of weakly loaded shells or inapropriate lubricant for low temperature condition. So you can try to remove blind and try if it helps or not. May be you have to align this shutter some way (move it back a bit on two-part recoil spring), make it shorter, bend it properly or something like that. Can you take a picture of your current shutter position and state?

Edited by ZakherBakher
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I don't currently have a camera. I don't think you understand what piece I'm talking about. It's not the floating piece that attaches to the recoil spring. I'm talking about a fixed prong that is smaller (about a half a centimeter wide) that is actually part of the barrel. It is at the top of the rear of the chamber. When the bolt is closed, this piece is hidden.

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Sorry - that's my poor english and inattention. Now I think I'm realised what part you talking about.

 

This is a part of bolt locking mechanizm. I'll try to ask my friends here because I never heard of this part and jams correlation.

 

Right now I have no suggestions.

I would try to closely inspect all the parts of bolt and rails one more time, disassemble the gun and look into the barrel to be sure chrome is shining evenly everywhere except gas port holes zone (no more lead or other dirt in it). Inspect gas tube and stuff one more time.

 

Personally I had similar jams only on certain mid-to-bad-quality shells because most of our shell manufacturers don't really care of the quality. So my decision was to choose another time proven trademark (here it's "Taiga").

post-2-1060946639.gif

Edited by ZakherBakher
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Hi SaltPeter,

 

This might be a stupid answer, but could it be possible that you somehow put the magazine spring in wrong if you pulled the magazine apart? I know alot of people who seem to have all kinds of feeding problems with their Remington '597 magazines (spring arrangement looks very similar to the Saiga's to me) that they then trace back to having the magazine spring in backwards after cleaning them. The trick is to pop open te bottom of a Saiga magazine that is known to be working correctly and see which way the spring coils are oriented (I know it sounds kinda kooky, but it might turn out to be the problem?), and then set your non-working magazine springs the same way. I only wish now I had the picture that someone posted over at rimfirecentral.com showing the correct spring setup Anyway, I hope you get your Saiga working again good without having to resort to butchering it.

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Gaddis

Unfortunately, this is happening with all three of my magazines. And it started occuring for no apparent reason because, although I have taken my magazines apart in the past, I put them back together and had no problems at all. Then the gun just started jamming without me changing anything. I don't understand it.

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Hi SaltPeter,

 

Hmm, that's strange (I really can't think of anything else off the top of my head that it could be?). The only suggestion I could give is maybe try "stretching" the magazine springs out to see if it starts working right again, or maybe see if Kalashnikov could maybe send you a new replacement spring for cheap to see if you can get it working. Of course, that would be the route I would personally take before performing major surgery on my Saiga (I don't depend on mine for life or death situations though!). :rolleyes:

 

As you can probably plainly see, I still think the problem can be traced to the magazine (the weak link in most semi-auto designs).

Edited by Gaddis
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firebird-12

I am using it on gas setting #2. The problem seems to be a feed failure from the magazine as opposed to a function failure of the gas system.

 

Gaddis

I think your right about it having something to do with the magazine. It must be because 40 hours out of the week (usually more), the magazines are loaded to capacity (with one of them in the gun - compressing the spring even more). If that's the case though, it's a discredit to Izhmash, who designed these magazines for military/law enforcement use.

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Well, you could always load them with only three shells and see if that helps any with the jamming problem (might as well go out on patrol with a coach gun then :rolleyes: ). I always wondered why most police jurisdictions had the old trusty Remmy '870 in the cab with them in case things got hot.

 

Gaddis

I think your right about it having something to do with the magazine. It must be because 40 hours out of the week (usually more), the magazines are loaded to capacity (with one of them in the gun - compressing the spring even more). If that's the case though, it's a discredit to Izhmash, who designed these magazines for military/law enforcement use.

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SaltPeter,

 

I got my Saiga-12 in this week and got a chance to torture test it today......finally !

 

After a few mags with no problems I had them same type of jam in exactly the same spot as you have mentioned. I shot 100+ shells and had it happen only twice. It is not a easy jam to clear quickly either.

 

I too believe it to be a mag problem as well but will investigate it further. Maybe some good ol' polishing in that area might relieve the problem.

 

I dont think that the problem is with the mag spring being in wrong ( unless it was done at the factory ) because I have never taken my mag apart.

 

Also try to lube your mag with powder graphite. It will not attract dust and particles like a oil type lubricant but will make the innards slick.

 

We used powder graphite for lube in our M16s during the first Gulf War because CLP would attract too much fine dust and sand. It would stick ANYWHERE there was CLP. I think ANY "wet" lube would do this as well.

 

We cleaned with CLP then wiped and Q-tipped all the CLP and would lube everything with powder graphite.

 

LB

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SaltPeter

I can see two possible reasons for such feeding problem.

 

1. A magazine or magazines malfunction. Saiga-12 mags are extrimly reliable, but they can jam when worn of. Inside a magazine there are rails for shell rim, and these rails can be easily worn by sharp or reloaded shells' rims.

Please inspect Your magazines' rails. Best of all - purchaise or just try in some way a brand new "out of box" magazine.

2. Magazine catch malfunction. Check the magazine is attached properly.

 

And the basic recomendation for almost all kind of jams - change a type of ammo. Try any other brand to make sure, that Your current ammo makes no problem.

 

By the way, do You use 5-rnd or 8-round mags? If You can find 8-rnd LEO mags - stick to them, becase they are more reliable than 5-rnd ones. It happens so, because in 1998, then Saiga-12 was designed, there was an idea to use Saiga12 with 8-rnd mag in Russian military and law-enforcement, so 8-rnd mag was designed to be more reliable than basic 5rnd one.

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I was assuming that SaltPeter IS using the 8 round magazines since he is LEO. I am using the 5 round magazines since it is all that is legally available to the US public.

 

If Salty IS using the 8 round magazines then I would really make me suspicious of the area in front of the chamber where the round is actually ramming into.

 

I just checked the area in question in my shotgun and I didnt feel any sharp burrs but the area is rough around the edge. Not enough to cut but maybe enough to cause the jam. I am going to hone the area and go torture the shotgun again =) Hehehe thats the fun part!!

 

LB

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SaltPeter

 

I've just adviced with an expert from Izjmash representative office in Moscow, he agrees that in case all mags are OK, a problem may be caused either by a magazine catch malfunction or too short shells.

 

Check for magazines are attached properly and try a longer ammo, for example 3" ones

 

Best regards,

Sergey Podgirin

Moscow Saiga owners club

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just read something on one of our gun forums

 

Some guy had similar problems and the real cause was reciever cover slightly unbended at the place it fastened to gas tube (i.e. front side of cover). So cover slightly warping and went off it's position because of any slight push or something like that. This way it stops in slightly lower position so operating handle strikes right side cover's cut out (shown below) causing unexpected handle stop. He realized that when tried to shoot rifle with reciever cover removed and having no more jams.

 

He just bend reciever cover back to it's normal state with nearby door-post and everything was fine back again.

 

If you want to check it shooting with cover removed don't forget to wear protective glasses and other face protection just in case.

 

may be it can help

post-2-1062584661.jpg

Edited by ZakherBakher
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Actually I'm not insisting on use door-post to fix the problem :)

It's just a way that guy did it.

 

BTW there will be next generation of LEO Saiga12k (called Saiga 12SWAT) soon

 

it's known features

- reciever cover fixed at front and opens up

- muzzle on gas tube

- weaver base on top of reciever cover and next to foreend directly under the muzzle (foreend is AK-10x type)

- push button safety

- magazine well (not shown - picture below is mkI)

- automatic and manual bolt catch

- new IZHMASH designed pistolgrip

- flash suppressor on cylinder bore barrel (although it makes overall length a bit long)

- butt stock with rubber pad

- swivel rings positioned more reasonable

 

cons:

- I heard the rumor that due to new bolt catch system mags for new Saiga will be incompatible with old ones. They made mag spring a bit longer and upper plate a bit higher if you looking at empty magazine.

post-2-1062629631.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hey guys,

Sorry it took so long to reply but I have had computer problems and haven't been online too much lately. Right now I'm using a borrowed computer. Well I took apart my Saiga and used my rotary tool to polish that prong that was hanging up the shells. I also used the rotary tool to make a indent in the magazine's follower, similar to the indent in the follower of a Desert Eagle pistol magazine. I took the gun to the range after that and the jam problem was significantly less of a problem. It did, however, jam the same way once every 75-100 rounds, so I was considering taking a little more off of that prong part. I'm afraid, though, 'cause I know that if I take too much off, I'll f*ck up the gun good.

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never been here for a long time, i had once that kind of problem. i have posted some time ago about my conversion of usas 10 rd mag to saiga that cause me a great puffs. it happens the same way it is. in our so many solutions, one really helps a lot. of course the shotgun should be really clean to start with. now if you look under the bolt there's squared metal indent (in 1911 slide this is like a part of the breach face) that helps pick up the shell then push it to chamber. if you would feel this with your finger, this has a very sharp edge and corners. now during recoil this part will cause your bolt to slow back, because it scratches the new shell on top and sometimes it leaves a sliced or deep cut on the shell. since the bolt was slowed back, the recoil spring did not reach its maximum compression and of course it will not bounce back on its peak force to chamber the shell. since the shell is not slammed into the chamber the jam thing happens and that poor innocent shutter becomes a suspect. we solve the problem by polishing and rounding that part of the bolt by dremel and finished to shine. we have eliminated the mark to top shell, chambers perfect and ejection was improved. just my share. i hope this will help. take extra care on the dremel coz the bolt metal is kind soft.

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