How hot do you suspect your Saiga 12 barrel gets after bump firing a f

[tman2007sc 0]

After 2 ten round mags of slugs the barrel is hot enough that I can't grab it. How hot do

you suppose it might be? At some point if the chamber gets hot enough the freshly

chambered plastic shells or handguard might melt. I think the AA12 has an open bolt

design to avoid shells melting or setting off the primer. With the possiblity of 20 round

mags and mag wells coming soon do you think bump firing 60 or more consecutive

shells might create enough heat to melt or warp the shells in the chamber? I tried to

experiment with a winchester AA shell piece in the oven. At 200 F the shell is soft enough

to deform easily and probably cause extraction problems. At 300 F the shell is

definitely melting and will stick and cause major problems. I guess my search is to

find how much rapid firing can I do with my Saiga 12 before the chamber is too hot.

To me that means keeping the barrel temperature below 200 F because its not an

open bolt design. I suspect that 60 or more rapid fire might begin to be too hot.

Has anyone shot that many rapidly? 6 or more agp mags.

Edited January 9, 2008 by tman2007sc

[Azrial 1,091]

I guess now would be a good time to announce my new water cooled conversion!

 

I guess I will have to become a vendor here!

[killasoundz 0]

Ive shot about 4 full AGP mags and 3 5 rdrs rapid fire until 300 rounds of ammo was gone. Only pause was to realoda mags which wasnt too long because two people were shooting. So one would reload while the other shot.

 

 

Barrel and gas tube got hot to where you culdnt hold gun sometimes. But this was shoot a lot of 3 in buckshot and magnum turky loads as well as Remington heavy dove and sts nitro clay loads.

 

Never had any feed problems or hang ups.

Edited January 9, 2008 by killasoundz

[SaigaNoobie 66]

In the .223 section, they discuss some plastic shell .223 ammo (can't remember what it's called). The ammo looks like it's made of similar shotgun type material. The plastic doesn't transfer heat as well as brass or steel, so they fired some awful big number of rounds and then chambered a plastic shell. It didn't melt, deform, or go off on its own.

 

If you had 10x20rd drums loaded up and could bump fire all of them in quick succession, you might have some heat issues. I don't really know what will happen to the shells.

[S-12inWV 1]

I bumped my AR Bushy w/an adjustable trigger w/a full Beta C Mag and it got so hot the Gas tube glowed red hot where it eners the upper receiver.... I could see it though the vent holes on my KA Rail system..... It didn't hurt it, but wouldn't advise to do it regularly.... I get my S-12s so hot, you can see the extra CLP evaporate like mist...

[tman2007sc 0]

In the .223 section, they discuss some plastic shell .223 ammo (can't remember what it's called). The ammo looks like it's made of similar shotgun type material. The plastic doesn't transfer heat as well as brass or steel, so they fired some awful big number of rounds and then chambered a plastic shell. It didn't melt, deform, or go off on its own.

The army tested the .223 Natec ammunition to failure in 400 F chambers.

Page 5 http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/Natecammo.pdf

Typical shotgun ammo would not fair as well.

Also worthy of mention. Page 6 Metal cased ammunition had a higher rate of fire

I may have to test the S-12 chamber heat limits when I get more mags.

I think we can all agree that typical shotgun shells were never designed to be rapid

fired nearly as much as FMJ metal cased ammo.

[G O B 3,516]

To prevent cook-offs or melted plastic,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EMPTY THE MAG.

[Bvamp 604]

AND THE CHAMBER

[E-TAC 47]

After 2 ten round mags of slugs the barrel is hot enough that I can't grab it. How hot do

you suppose it might be? At some point if the chamber gets hot enough the freshly

chambered plastic shells or handguard might melt. I think the AA12 has an open bolt

design to avoid shells melting or setting off the primer. With the possiblity of 20 round

mags and mag wells coming soon do you think bump firing 60 or more consecutive

shells might create enough heat to melt or warp the shells in the chamber? I tried to

experiment with a winchester AA shell piece in the oven. At 200 F the shell is soft enough

to deform easily and probably cause extraction problems. At 300 F the shell is

definitely melting and will stick and cause major problems. I guess my search is to

find how much rapid firing can I do with my Saiga 12 before the chamber is too hot.

To me that means keeping the barrel temperature below 200 F because its not an

open bolt design. I suspect that 60 or more rapid fire might begin to be too hot.

Has anyone shot that many rapidly? 6 or more agp mags.

 

A while back we tested A USAS @ 500rpm and finished 8 20rn drums of hi base stuff, drum reloads were about 3 sec. We had no problems...

[waltham_41 52]

I have absolutely no experience with the all metal shotgun shells, how much more expensive are they compared to the plastic ones? Perhaps that is the answer if you intend to do a lot of bump firing and really heat up the weapon.

[kmoore 3]

I can't keep up with Jammer, but I ran a shotgun match with 2 20 round drums and 8 stick mags. Used all that I had (and needed more). Because of movement and reload times it took ~5 minutes.

 

Didn't notice the heat of the shotgun. Certainly didn't have any issues with the ammo. The Williams were there and did the same (altho just a little slower ) and again, no ammo deformation/melting issues.

 

Realize that when you study things like this, you need to consider heat transfer rates. It's not like the air surrounded static conditions of an oven, tho that's a good place to start. Also, different shotshells have different hulls. I had a very bad batch of winchester that cured me of being thier customer. They lost their crimps on a 95 degree day. I posted about it here, likely 3 or 4 years ago.

[tman2007sc 0]

After 2 ten round mags of slugs the barrel is hot enough that I can't grab it. How hot do

you suppose it might be? At some point if the chamber gets hot enough the freshly

chambered plastic shells or handguard might melt. I think the AA12 has an open bolt

design to avoid shells melting or setting off the primer. With the possiblity of 20 round

mags and mag wells coming soon do you think bump firing 60 or more consecutive

shells might create enough heat to melt or warp the shells in the chamber? I tried to

experiment with a winchester AA shell piece in the oven. At 200 F the shell is soft enough

to deform easily and probably cause extraction problems. At 300 F the shell is

definitely melting and will stick and cause major problems. I guess my search is to

find how much rapid firing can I do with my Saiga 12 before the chamber is too hot.

To me that means keeping the barrel temperature below 200 F because its not an

open bolt design. I suspect that 60 or more rapid fire might begin to be too hot.

Has anyone shot that many rapidly? 6 or more agp mags.

 

A while back we tested A USAS @ 500rpm and finished 8 20rn drums of hi base stuff, drum reloads were about 3 sec. We had no problems...

 

The open bolt design gives the USAS a big advantage over the S-12 with heat transfer

issues. If the shell only remains in the chamber a fraction of a second upon firing the

plastic skin does not have the same exposure rate as it would trapped in the chamber.

If I wanted to rapid fire a mountain of shells in my S-12 I think the important thing is to

not let a live round sit in the chamber once the barrel gets super smoking hot.

 

Kmoore 140 in 5 minutes without extraction issues is good news.

Edited January 11, 2008 by tman2007sc

[Twinsen 86]

Funny story actually, just recently I fired the hell out of my saiga 12 and put it in my fancy new $7.99 Plano brand hard case. I go home, and I take it out of the box less than 10 minutes later because it's right down the street. I open the case, and the foam around the thread protector is sorta melted back, but bright orange in color. Guess what else is bright orange? The thread protector.

 

Don't buy Plano brand gun cases because when the foam is heated it releases a chemical that rusts steel (even painted steel) in a matter of minutes.

[Eric Pate 478]

Wow, thats a helluva reason not to buy those cases! Anyone else experienced this problem?

 

BTW, Twinsen, Don't sweat the NFA papers; mine's been on my CLEO's desk since Nov. 14th!

[mike12345 18]

I hope storm and pelican dont do that. I havent put a hot weapon in them yet.

 

I mailed in a form1 on the 2nd they havent cashed my check yet...

Edited January 13, 2008 by mike123456

[Twinsen 86]

I hope storm and pelican dont do that. I havent put a hot weapon in them yet.

 

I mailed in a form1 on the 2nd they havent cashed my check yet...

Pelican foam is very hard and tough, the stuff in the cheapo Plano brand cases is very soft and tears. You can probably wad the entire case worth of foam into a ball the size of a softball, totally different stuff.

[The-collectorFL 0]

Douse it in water if you need to...,when running hard it may get dam hot but if your not having any cook off's your probably ok

[Juggernaut 11,054]

If you put the barrel on your cheek and it sticks,

you are at optimal operating temp!

 

 

 

Just kidding!

[yuuts 0]

Douse it in water if you need to...,when running hard it may get dam hot but if your not having any cook off's your probably ok

 

I have a friend that did that and now his barrel is designed to shoot around corners. Water + hot barrel = warpage. ~

 

Unless you have a set-up like this: http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/30calhv.htm you should let the barrel cool naturally.

[Vultite 57]

if you really really heat up that barrel, let it cool by itself, and don't put any pressure on the barrel, warping may occur

[G O B 3,516]

If you have to throw a HOT weapon in the case, wrap it in a cotton T shirt.